GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #13

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'm not verified, but I am an attorney, and I practiced briefly as an Assistant DA in Georgia, though mostly in Juvenile Court. It was while ago, but in many jurisdictions the public indictments do use initials only when the victim is a minor. It seems silly in this case, as practically the whole country knows the victim's identity, but it is obviously the practice in that circuit/jurisdiction. As for the charges, remember the DA has to present the charges to the Grand Jury to get a "true bill" and indict. My experience tells me the DA (atty gen, or whatever they are called in this area) only has evidence sufficient to get a true bill on the kidnapping charge. An "offense against her" can refer to a variety of things, not just molestation. It can refer to battery, assault, the list goes on.

It sounds like the victim here has been reluctant to share the details of her ordeal with authorities. Perhaps she's not yet made a statement implicating him in a sexual crime, but she did identify him as her captor/harborer and the authorities wanted to get him behind bars ASAP. I would be shocked if we didn't see more charges added on over the next month or so, as Abby gets further from this ordeal and perhaps feels comfortable to share more details.

Thanks for this input, Island_Chica! (And I agree with your observations.)

 

[katydid23]

I think much of that is just who she is, I noticed that in Celina Cass' pressers as well.

I was really let down by her in Celina's case. Everyone kept saying what a bulldog she was, and how she was holding things close to the vest, just wait....and NOTHING. Crickets. Poor Celina.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I've been reading on and off since Abigail was released and haven't seen this yet. Not sure if it's a duplicate.

Team 5: Kibby charged in 1998 incident with girl, 16

Read more: http://www.wcvb.com/news/team-5-kibby-charged-in-1998-incident-with-girl-16/27212818#ixzz38tjJxUDo

 

[SStarr33]

That's a very good question. I feel that Young focused mostly on LE efforts and that she tried to do damage control-after her lead in the investigation involving FBI, State Police, County and local Police failed to find AH. She made a particular statement about efforts they made in the last month.

I felt like she was patting herself on the back.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I have found Jane Young to be no nonsense, not easily manipulated into showing her cards before she is ready and I find those to be admirable qualities. I like her no nonsense manner in these pressers. Different folks different strokes.

I like her. I haven't encountered her before this case but I think she has been fantastic. Maybe it's cos I'm a Brit? lol

Yeah, must be a personal preference thing. I much prefer someone who keeps her cool under pressure and maintains a business-like attitude in public in these cases. Someone who is a public mouthpiece who doesn't get caught up in emotional pressure or maneuvering, and isn't tempted to stray into public perception issues on account of that, if that risks her main goal. She does her job efficiently and with singular focus. That's my sense, at least. JMO.

 

[katydid23]

Why would he keep her in a container when he has two trailers? Couldn't he just soundproof a room in the trailer--or the whole trailer?

A container is pretty escape proof compared to a trailer.

 

[katydid23]

I have found Jane Young to be no nonsense, not easily manipulated into showing her cards before she is ready and I find those to be admirable qualities. I like her no nonsense manner in these pressers. Different folks different strokes.

Did you follow the Celina Cass case? That is how she appeared to be during that case. But it is now dead and cold. :cry:

 

[mamame]

I just saw it on television, but it was WCVB out of Boston.

 

[Starry Night]

I have found Jane Young to be no nonsense, not easily manipulated into showing her cards before she is ready and I find those to be admirable qualities. I like her no nonsense manner in these pressers. Different folks different strokes.

I feel Nancy Grace has the same qualities you admire. In that sense-I can see your point. However; this has been a 9 month ordeal and has cost who knows what. In the end-the victim orchestrated her own release.

 

[bakerlady]

Here is a better picture of the container.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-held-captive-shipping-container-house.html

 

[Pensfan]

There was the kidnapped boy who sang gospel songs until it annoyed his kidnapper so much that the kidnapper released him.

Julie Hanes, but she was older and taken by her estranged husband before being released.

This woman managed to con her captor into taking her to the hospital by feigning asthma. http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Florida-Woman-Allegedly---216532851.html

A previous thread referenced a man who had a bunker with multiple victims the police did not remember. He kept them for a while and then released them. John Jamelske. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jamelske

Respectfully shortened.
Ewww. This creep didn't release his victims. They were located and freed by LE.

Are there any other crimes similar to Abigail's where a male kidnapped and kept a young female for months and then he released her? tia

 

[Dixie811]

CatFancier, I love the new addition to your signature!

 

[tlcya]

Respectfully shortened.
Ewww. This creep didn't release his victims. They were located and freed by LE.

Are there any other crimes similar to Abigail's where a male kidnapped and kept a young female for months and then he released her? tia

I do not recall any but then I am not actively looking. If you find any please do link them. I am chasing another tail right now.

 

[Ghostwheel]

The rest of that article stated that he presented 50 love letters from her as evidence that they were or had been in a relationship.

I'm a little behind, but I'd like to clarify that the article says "When Kibby testified in his own defense, he said he had a close relationship with Bova, which was evidenced by a stack of about 50 love letters he said he had received from her over the course of their four-month relationship." It does not say he presented them in court or anywhere. This statement could mean that Kibby SAID that the relationship was evidenced by the letters, not necessarily that he ever presented any such letters, or any letters proven to be written by Bova. When things are written this way, they can have more than one meaning. (ie: Don't break your bread or roll in your soup).

 

[kokotheklutz]

Tlcya - a couple of stories here (bottom of the article) about girls being kidnapped and released (not held as long as Abby was though)

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/050401/upd_075-2002.shtml

Both were whisked away and held captive for days: Lisa in a locked room at an unknown location for almost two weeks; Nykema for five days in a boarded-up cabin about a two-hour drive from San Antonio, authorities said.

Lisa reappeared Sunday at a bus station in New Orleans after her abductor released her in Lafayette and bought her a bus ticket home. Nykema's kidnapper dropped her off about a block from her apartment.

 

[gitana1]

Note to ALL: DO NOT speculate and post what you *think* you see in AH's photos. Regardless of the intent, to do so breeds harmful rumors. I'm pretty sure none of us posting here wishes to add to AH's suffering.

You're so right, Bessie. I didn't think of what speculation about her appearance could cause.

I wonder if zenia will let jimmy visit abby. Even if a short visit. Its sad this ordeal would end her friendship with jimmy in such a manner. Like for example they were bf and gf and then nothing. Anyhow i was just thinking

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I wouldn't let that boy anywhere near my child. She needs as much privacy as she can get without having to hide. This kid's dad already splashed allegations about her sex life all over the Daily News or whatever. Anything she says to the kid is going to be released immediately by his father to the media.

I like her. I haven't encountered her before this case but I think she has been fantastic. Maybe it's cos I'm a Brit? lol

Its not just you. Jane Young is very well regarded by many in her state due to her record.

Yeah, must be a personal preference thing. I much prefer someone who keeps her cool under pressure and maintains a business-like attitude in public in these cases. Someone who is a public mouthpiece who doesn't get caught up in emotional pressure or maneuvering, and isn't tempted to stray into public perception issues on account of that, if that risks her main goal. She does her job efficiently and with singular focus. That's my sense, at least. JMO.

Agreed. The problem is I think that people are unrealistic about what LE can and should do. Sometimes there is no evidence. Perps get lucky or are able to hide their crimes for long periods. If they snatch a child or woman off the street and no one sees them do it and no cameras are around, how is LE to find them? If they kill their captive in a private or isolated area and dump the bodies in a forest, or keep their victims chained or locked in a place no one goes to or can access, why and how is LE to magically solve it the case? If they leave no forensic evidence and there is more than one possible perp, and suspects have invoked, what is LE to do, resort to torture?

Sometimes there just isn't enough evidence to work with. Yet people often naively believe they have the power to solve every case and if they aren't solving these cases quickly, they must be doing something very wrong.

I believe that that is the CSI effect in action. Everything is nicely wrapped up through incredible hunches and sophisticated forensic technology, within an hour. People subconsciously adapted their expectations based on decades of these shows. But it is not reality. Reality is grimmer, harder and less satisfying, typically.

Respectfully shortened.
Ewww. This creep didn't release his victims. They were located and freed by LE.

Are there any other crimes similar to Abigail's where a male kidnapped and kept a young female for months and then he released her? tia

There are more sex trafficking cases where this happens. The perps tire of the sex slave or he or she age out and they are often kids that the traffickers believe no one cares about or is looking for, so they aren't afraid to release them.

I think release of a captive in a case like this- nationwide attention, beloved, attractive child- is unusual. That just tells me that this is a perp with some personality issues that make him feel invincible or entitled or smarter than others. I believe it tells us much more about the perp and about the intelligence and strength of the survivor than points to any credibility issues as I feel your posts may be implying.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I have to say... I am quite curious about bathroom use and bathing facilities for poor Abby as she was confined to a storage shed...

JMO

Home depot bucket with a garbage bag and pine shavings and, if you are really nice, a toilet seat that is removable for ease of removing the bag. (I use it for camping and off roading- when you seal the bag, it doesn't smell at all). Or just a regular camp toilet. And another bucket for bathing water. My grandmother used to wash her hair in a rain bucket.

from tlcya's post:

any indication Abby knew Kibby beforehand
Young: still part of the investigation.


I don't understand...either you do or don't know someone. it's not a grey area.

I have a lot of people I have seen around, but I don't KNOW them. I do recognize them when I see them, or maybe even to say "Hello" to, but to me, that's a grey area. (Kind of like "Do you know your postman?")

Speculating: If Abby was indeed kept/held in the storage container, what amenities (rough albeit) could it have had?

Small container. Room for a cot or bed. If not plumbed or not run with electricity a sawdust/composting abode could have been utilized. A generator could have been used to generate light or power when needed.

Water Could have been delivered by the gallon.

It seems to me that anything you could use for camping, you could use in a storage container. Rechargeable lights, a cot, chair, camp toilet, and electricity could be run with an extension cord (I've done that at some campsites with electricity outlets.)

I'm sure this is just me...pretty positive in fact. But I have a hard time with making victims of a difficult crime into "heroes" or heroines. In a sense it compels them to have to be, do, say, etc., in public what they may not be ready for yet. It's a very human, natural tendency from what I've observed watching cases unfold the past several years. But these are children who did not ask to be anyone's hero/heroine. My heartfelt inclination is just to let her be as 'normal' as she feels like being, and not for others to inadvertently impose immediate and idealistic standards on her in what could still be an unstable state.

I'm sure that probably no one knows what I mean, here. But I say it with all respect and love for AH and any child victim. Psychological pressure is tough enough in good circumstances.

I agree. Some people can and will eventually step up into a role where they hope that their story might help someone else, but others do not and can not. The haunted look in the eyes of someone who has been through something like this, the way they look through things rather than actually at things, makes me hope they take time to themselves, where they can figure out their own feelings and not have to deal with everyone else's feelings and reactions.

Here is a better picture of the container. View attachment 55882

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-held-captive-shipping-container-house.html

How does Daily Mail get the best pictures? Thank you. I reassess my previous opinion that it was 12 X 12. It now looks like it is 8 X 16 (using the bicycles as a reference), still awfully small for a shooting range, but big enough to be used as a room, IMO

 

[Bodhi]

I do not recall any but then I am not actively looking. If you find any please do link them. I am chasing another tail right now.

Here's two:

John Jamelske, serial rapist-kidnapper in New York state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jamelske

Austrian Josef Fritzl after two decades of holding his daughter and many of their children captive in a secret basement took one out to go to the hospital when she was very ill. He brought 2 or 3 children to live upstairs as babies and claimed that his daughter had abandoned them on his doorstep.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7371959.stm


ETA: additional info. Jamelske was caught only when his 5th known victim was able to call her sister. After being held for 6 months, he took here out twice. The 2nd time she was able to get to a phone and call her sister, which set of events that culminated in her rescue.

Jamelske held 2 girls and 2 women captive in a series of kidnappings before that. The earlier victims ranged in age from 14 to 53. Some were kept 6 or 9 months and one for two years. He eventually released each one. At least one wrote a letter home saying she was in rehab. The first victim, who was 14, did not report her kidnapping to police when she was released. The others did but their reports were not investigated aggressively.

 

[gnomony]

[snip]I reassess my previous opinion that it was 12 X 12. It now looks like it is 8 X 16 (using the bicycles as a reference), still awfully small for a shooting range, but big enough to be used as a room, IMO

Standard size apparently is 20 feet long. More here.

 

[BillNH]

If that storage container was ever a gun range, it's the smallest gun range I've ever seen. Who practices shooting at something 10 feet away? From the view I saw, that storage container couldn't have been more than 12 X 12, max. (if you can't hit something at 10 feet, you can't hit something at all, IMO). And as to soundproofing, I don't know about a storage container, but I can sit in my living room, and cannot be heard by someone in the kitchen, yet anyone in the kitchen and the living room can hear everything said down the hallway in the bedrooms. Sometimes, it is just the surrounding acoustics that make things soundproof.

This may already be answered down thread, but I haven't read that far yet. Shipping containers are 100 inches wide, 100 inches tall and are either 20', 40' or 45'. In my work we regularly use them to ship product. They have to be uniform in lengths to stack neatly on the ships. Looks like he had a 20' one, still not very suitable for a shooting range except for a BB gun or dart gun.