GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #14

[appleeye]

Abigail looks fantastic... To me, she looks as if she has been fed and somewhat taken care of - lord knows what she endured but she looks as healthy as anyone - which is just her shell, I know... now if only she wore a different shirt because no doubt that will be what gets picked up by the naysayers...

http://www.people.com/article/abigail-hernandez-missing-teen-speaks-out

 

[Pensfan]

the pic on the top is MAINE the photo on the bottom is NH... that pic with the maine officer is at a location in Maine, NOT related to this case..... people are getting confused here

You are correct, but jurisdictions will bring in help from other jurisdictions cadaver dogs and S&R dogs. In fact, this man is photographed with his cadaver dog in Mexico. Here's one example: The cadaver dogs brought in to search Dan Rassier's home/barn (POI in Jacob Wetterling's disappearance) were flown in from another state.

 

[song22]

after reading that article....i have some reoccurring thoughts....
some of the comments by those that knew him remind me that i continually wonder how much we should inform LE of suspicious people we encounter even if we have seen nothing illegal done by them. i know its a very fine line and i also know people dont want a big brother/nanny state.....but they are not alone in their accounts. they knew him as one who was deeply disturbed and were themselves victims of him. how many of out there know people like kibby - we know something is very very wrong with them....they have done some not so nice things...but they have not crossed into breaking the law - or maybe they have (on paper) but we are too afraid or unsure of reporting them. after all its not illegal to be weird or abnormal.

i say that because there are a couple of kids 2 doors down from me whom I have discussed here before that exhibit VERY VERY disturbing behavior and even some bullying - but nothing has crossed into illegal (that im aware of). im not talking about just obnoxious child/teen behavior. im talking obvious disturbed/psychopathic behaviors. the other day the kids grandmother (who is raising them due to having a methhead criminal mother) was carried off in an ambulance. i dont know what happened but my FIRST thought when i saw the ambulance, etc was 'they killed her'. she is back home now - alive.

if one of those kids are ever in the news, or arrested.....i will be the one that said "im not surprised, i saw it coming". yet ive never done anything about it. am i morally culpable if that happens?

where is THAT line?

JMO it kind of depends on where you live--how big of a community it is and how accessible your local police department is. I live in a medium sized city, with a great local PD. I reported a person who was showing some mental health red flags but who was not doing anything illegal. I called the non-emergency number and asked this same question--if someone's not doing something illegal, but you still have concerns, where's the line? They said they like to hear from residents so that they are aware of concerns out there. They can't "do" anything, but they appreciate hearing concerns. I think this is very important. No, we shouldn't run around reporting everyone we don't approve of in the neighborhood--but LE would be able to pick up on that pretty quick. If someone's acting strange and several citizens notice, that helps LE. If someone was talking to me about a zombie apocalypse and they were serious, I would definitely call LE and just say, this man scares me. When I reported the person who creeped me out they sent a patrol car around and said they could make a note that if this guy was seen around my residence that officers could ask him to leave.

As to the neighbor kids, you can call the school and ask to speak to the guidance counselor. Your call can be anonymous, and you say you are just expressing your concerns for their welfare, describe the behavior etc. Maybe the counselor will blow you off, but maybe she will keep an extra eye out and your call may inspire some move toward intervention. If behavior seems downright psychopathic there's a pretty good chance it might be illegal... I don't know I guess I don't quite know what you mean by psychopathic. But anyway, that sounds bad enough that I'd report it at the non emergency number. Just my 2 cents. I believe in speaking up for sure!

 

[atthelake]

I beginning to wonder if the letter was even postmarked. Maybe he dropped it off at her house? That would serve 2 purposes - one the letter would not be traceable via a postmark and two, it would manipulate Abby into giving him her home address which he could use as leverage against her.

One of our fellow posters share with me a 2 hour video that I found the last half very interesting with information I wasn't aware of. For example, I had no idea that every single piece of mail going through the US Postal service is now PHOTOGRAPHED front and back as it enters the system. I don't recall where in the video it is :floorlaugh: . An interesting video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XdsaCVZ1ck

More info also at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_Isolation_Control_and_Tracking
" It was created in the aftermath of the 2001 anthrax attacks that killed five people, including two postal workers.[2][3] The automated mail tracking program was created so that the Postal Service could more easily track hazardous substances and keep people safe, according to U.S. Postmaster General Patrick R. Donahoe.[2]

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) revealed MICT on June 7, 2013 when discussing the Bureau's investigation of ricin-laced letters sent to U.S. President Barack Obama and New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg.[1] The FBI stated in a criminal complaint that the program was used to narrow its investigation to Shannon Richardson.[4] U.S. Postmaster General Patrick R. Donahoe confirmed in an interview with the Associated Press the existence of this program on August 2, 2013"

 

[takeitfromme412]

I know about the different types of canine training. What we're trying to determine:

1. Is the handler/K-9 team depicted in the Maine photo the same as the one seen in the photo of yesterday's search.

2. If so, is the dog trained in HRD (a "cadaver dog"), in other words, one trained solely to search out the scent of human decomposition?

No it is not... it is a NH Fish & Game Conservation Officer. It is not the Maine game warden. Maine is NOT on scene for this investigation...

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Search: A New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation K-9 officer crosses the Moose River as he searches for evidence Thursday, July 31, 2014 behind the home of Nathaniel Kibby in Gorham

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...obsessed-zombie-apocalypse.html#ixzz39AVWRTKy

the officer is not identified nor is the dog but the photo caption clearly states the officer who is handling the canine at NK's place is a member of NH Fish and Game, not Maine.

ETA the game warden from Maine is identified in this cached version of the article about the completely unrelated Mexico Maine case. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VumxfTycQf0J:www.sunjournal.com/news/river-valle...g-continues/1228156+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Conclusion: two different handlers with two different agencies and two different black dogs.

Thanks for your ETA (though I can't read the 'premium content'). And I agree--have from the start; these are not the same two handlers/dogs. The dog's tail kicks slightly to its left in the ME handler's photo; the dog's tail in the NH Game Warden's photo kicks noticeably to its right and is slightly skinnier.

(Guess I'll have to stop looking at these photos, now...)

 

[Pensfan]

In the picture on this site, you can clearly see the truck in the background with NH plates that says Caution: Police Dog K-9 Unit

http://www.georgianewsday.com/news/...nandez-alleged-kidnapper-nathaniel-kibby.html

One NH car with a NH K-9 sign doesn't eliminate the photographed dog from being Maine's J***** Judd's cadaver dog. The articles stated that police
dogS (plural) were brought in to help. Several jurisdictions came and some jurisdictions that can afford marked K-9 vehicles brought search dogs in their marked vehicle.

J***** Judd is not a sheriff's deputy or local police officer. He is a game warden. Maine may not be able to provide a marked K-9 vehicle to this game warden. This man may be a "professional" volunteer who helps out of the kindness of his heart. Volunteers don't receive K-9 marked vehicles. J***** Judd's and his cadaver dog might have flown into NH from another search site as photos show him with his cadaver dog in other areas.

 

[Steleheart]

You are correct, but jurisdictions will bring in help from other jurisdictions cadaver dogs and S&R dogs. In fact, this man is photographed with his cadaver dog in Mexico. Here's one example: The cadaver dogs brought in to search Dan Rassier's home/barn (POI in Jacob Wetterling's disappearance) were flown in from another state.

Indeed, and IMO if they answer a call for another state that use that states equipment and uniform unless it is a formal request for that state to help. From my general knowledge, wich is often flawed, they are not always full time but are on call.

ETA in answer to another post I had thought that a dog's hold of his tail up, down , left, right, out straight, etc was part of his signal?

 

[Rivernh]

I guess I wouldn't be surprised if they did bring in a cadaver dog just to check things out, in the interest of being as thorough as possible. I mean, there has been some talk of some parties wondering if he had a connection to the Murray case. If any remains were found, the medical examiner would show up, and it would be hard to hide. I am chalking this up to LE being thorough, not as any evidence of actual remains. It is possible that a handler with a cadaver dog might come across evidence that the dog didn't alert to, like a bundle in the river.

 

[takeitfromme412]

In the picture on this site, you can clearly see the truck in the background with NH plates that says Caution: Police Dog K-9 Unit

http://www.georgianewsday.com/news/...nandez-alleged-kidnapper-nathaniel-kibby.html

Yes, in NH we have our F&G Conservation officers and we have a F&G Conservation law enforcement division, this is NH F&G Law Enforcement's K9 unit, K9 Ruby with handler Officer Bill Boudreau ..... the photographers there were Jeff Hastings and joel page.... Hastings has confirmed this for me ... I hope I'm not out of line here just trying to let everyone know there were NO CADAVER dogs on scene..... Ruby is NOT a certified cadaver dog

 

[smc1225]

One NH car with a NH K-9 sign doesn't eliminate the photographed dog from being Maine's J***** Judd's cadaver dog. The articles stated that police
dogS (plural) were brought in to help. Several jurisdictions came and some jurisdictions that can afford marked K-9 vehicles brought search dogs in their marked vehicle.

J***** Judd is not a sheriff's deputy or local police officer. He is a game warden. Maine may not be able to provide a marked K-9 vehicle to this game warden. This man may be a "professional" volunteer who helps out of the kindness of his heart. Volunteers don't receive K-9 marked vehicles. J***** Judd's and his cadaver dog might have flown into NH from another search site as photos show him with his cadaver dog in other areas.

I understand that but the man in front of the truck's uniform also say K-9 unit on it. Isn't he the person you were comparing in the two photos? If he was a volunteer would he be wearing a uniform that says K-9 unit? I thought it was logical to associate the man with dog who has a uniform saying K-9 unit on it to the truck that said NH K-9 unit.

Obviously I missed something?

 

[Pensfan]

No it is not... it is a NH Fish & Game Conservation Officer. It is not the Maine game warden. Maine is NOT on scene for this investigation...

If there is a cadaver dog in another state with an excellent success rate, NH officials or the FBI may have asked its handler to bring the dog to help.

(For example: When Dan Rassier's home/barn were searched in 2010, cadaver dogs were flown into MN from another state.)

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

We need more Gladys Kravitzes in this world. LOL

When we lived in Reno, NV there were meth labs in other townhouses in our complex, there was a biker club using one as a party house, there were 3 bodies laying on our premises, including 2 murderers shot by police and we had a bullet go through our first floor window [when I was home alone I stayed on the 3rd floor]. Police were so busy that not much was done when people did call.

Lol, sounds like in Reno the police have their hands full of people committing crimes, not just acting "weird." But I agree, I love having a Gladys Kravitz attitude in my neighbors, especially whenever we leave town; people should proactively look out for their neighbors and any suspicious activity that might harm them.

 

[takeitfromme412]

Indeed, and IMO if they answer a call for another state that use that states equipment and uniform unless it is a formal request for that state to help. From my general knowledge, wich is often flawed, they are not always full time but are on call.

ETA in answer to another post I had thought that a dog's hold of his tail up, down , left, right, out straight, etc was part of his signal?

Maine, Massachusetts and NH share resources when asked... NO ONE but NH authorities and federal authorities are on scene there.... not one vehicle pictured is from out of state (official vehicles)

 

[atthelake]

Abby spoke to the Conway paper-- she went by to thank them because she occasionally saw the paper and saw the box with her name and how many days she was missing, and she knew people were looking for her.

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx/local-news/115569-abby-stops-by-the-conway-daily-sun

Edit: From the article: Kibby will next appear in court Aug. 12 at a probable cause hearing. Additional charges against him are expected.

Clip from the article brings back the memory of the strength of Jaycee Dugard once she was released and what she did afterwards (horseback riding for healing).

More information on Jaycee's foundation.. http://thejaycfoundation.org/about-us/ . "The JAYC Foundation in partnership with Transitioning Families focuses on reunification and healing through traditional therapy along with animal therapy, equine therapy, and food therapy. This comprehensive approach brings families together with treatment programs designed specifically for them and their unique circumstances"

I do hope that they are in contact with Abby :grouphug:

 

[Pensfan]

Indeed, and IMO if they answer a call for another state that use that states equipment and uniform unless it is a formal request for that state to help. From my general knowledge, wich is often flawed, they are not always full time but are on call.

ETA in answer to another post I had thought that a dog's hold of his tail up, down , left, right, out straight, etc was part of his signal?

Think through this. Game wardens are "deputized", "initiated" or "commissioned". They wouldn't let a non-duputized person put on their uniform. Would a police officer let another officer from another jurisdiction wear his "uniform" or badge? No.

 

[Steleheart]

I guess I wouldn't be surprised if they did bring in a cadaver dog just to check things out, in the interest of being as thorough as possible. I mean, there has been some talk of some parties wondering if he had a connection to the Murray case. If any remains were found, the medical examiner would show up, and it would be hard to hide. I am chalking this up to LE being thorough, not as any evidence of actual remains. It is possible that a handler with a cadaver dog might come across evidence that the dog didn't alert to, like a bundle in the river.

before I say anything else I will have to do some research on WS here - IIRC there is a forum for SAR and Trail dogs ( If Bessie can help me out :loveyou But it seems to me that cadaver dogs (HRD) do not track in water? At any rate the handler did not pick up a cadaver and put it in a grey plastic evidence bag. It was an object. I am thinking phone, gun, purse, necklace,,,

 

[Steleheart]

Think through this. Game wardens are "deputized", "initiated" or "commissioned". They wouldn't let a non-duputized person put on their uniform. Would a police officer let another officer from another jurisdiction wear his "uniform" or badge? No.

Sure if he's properly deputized. My Animal Control Officer is part time and sometimes helps out in another town.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Quote Originally Posted by Steleheart
Indeed, and IMO if they answer a call for another state that use that states equipment and uniform unless it is a formal request for that state to help. From my general knowledge, wich is often flawed, they are not always full time but are on call.

ETA in answer to another post I had thought that a dog's hold of his tail up, down , left, right, out straight, etc was part of his signal?

Yes, that was my post. But I wasn't talking about the 'alert' the dog was sending concerning the differences in tails. I was talking about the natural bent in their tails. The ME handler's dog was pretty much straight up, but overall the tail had a slight arching quality towards its left. The NH guy had a dog whose tail had a pronounced rightward bend about 3 inches from the tip, just in casual walk. Tail also appeared skinnier (to me, at least). On a last note, I noticed the 'toys' were different as well. (The play toy that the dog handler carries to reward his dog for good 'finds.') River dog's toy was purple; cadaver dog's toy appeared to be lime-green.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

before I say anything else I will have to do some research on WS here - IIRC there is a forum for SAR and Trail dogs ( If Bessie can help me out :loveyou But it seems to me that cadaver dogs (HRD) do not track in water? At any rate the handler did not pick up a cadaver and put it in a grey plastic evidence bag. It was an object. I am thinking phone, gun, purse, necklace,,,

Cadaver dogs can and do track in water, usually in a boat. They can smell skin particles and gases that come to the surface.

This was not a cadaver dog...agree, it was a less "bio-hazardy" object.