NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female, 23-33, & 3 Children, under 11, Nov'85 & May'00 #3

[Irish_Eyes]

TPR is a weird one for sure. But I think in terms of profiling him there are some things to keep in mind. He's not just an angry drunk. The world is filled with those types. Some go through a series of partners and repeat the same patterns of behavior. Some even kill, and when they do, they often get caught, for the simple reason that it wasn't some carefully planned crime.

But I think others are right to notice that TPR isn't say, Ted Bundy. As far as we know, he wasn't out constantly trolling for random strangers to victimize. Bundy is what I think profilers would usually describe as an organized killer. Very planned, purposeful, methodical (although he was more disorganized towards the end.) Whereas a drunken abuser who kills would be more of a disorganized type. No plan, just explosive rage.

TPR seems pretty intentional about the ways he went about isolating Denise and Marlyse from their loved ones. He establishes new aliases and a pattern or coercive control in ways that seem pretty organized. For Bundy, the killing was the point, that's what he was ultimately after. For TPR, I think the control was the point. Maybe the killings were just the results of explosive rage that eventually went too far. But I think it's possible the killings may have occurred when his victims were showing signs of attempting to break free of him and, while still rage-fueled, may also have been pretty methodical and organized.

He has some similarities to me to Franklin Floyd in that way.

I do not buy that anyone died from poisoned mushrooms. He may have had a victim who liked to camp and liked to forage, etc. And TPR may even have taken a victim somewhere remote to kill them under the auspices of going camping or foraging, or disposed of a body in such a remote setting. I'm reminded of the police interviews with Susan Powell's young son who talked about his mom wanting to see crystals and be by the flowers, when I'm not sure Susan was even alive for any portion of that trip. But I think either he was told things by Josh Powell, or his young brain was attempting to fill gaps that didn't make sense to him by extrapolating from previous trips he'd been on with Susan where she did like seeing those things.

 

[carbuff]

@Irish_Eyes That is a very good analysis and I pretty much agree with you.

re: the grass mushrooms, I also think you're right about it being some sort of tale he made up to cover the real murders--but I also think it points to the Oregon connection again. There are foragers everywhere, but they're rare in the northeast and illness/death is even rarer. It's just not an excuse many people here would come up with. But in the Pacific NW, people make a living foraging, they have their private areas that they keep secret, and while deaths from poison mushrooms aren't common, they do happen.

Hmmm. Now I'm off to look for unidentified remains in mushroom-hunting territory.

 

[Springrain]

@Irish_Eyes That is a very good analysis and I pretty much agree with you.

re: the grass mushrooms, I also think you're right about it being some sort of tale he made up to cover the real murders--but I also think it points to the Oregon connection again. There are foragers everywhere, but they're rare in the northeast and illness/death is even rarer. It's just not an excuse many people here would come up with. But in the Pacific NW, people make a living foraging, they have their private areas that they keep secret, and while deaths from poison mushrooms aren't common, they do happen.

Hmmm. Now I'm off to look for unidentified remains in mushroom-hunting territory.

More great points from carbuff, though I suppose that's nothing new!

Yes, in the PNW we have a lot of foragers (as well as hunters, loggers, fishers and outdoorsmen - which I bring up because of any possible nature connection - it is pretty easy to get an outdoors-type job without much red tape AFAIK - I could see him working on a fishing boat in Portland under an unknown alias). There are a lot of mycology groups throughout Washington and Oregon, it's a big thing. I wonder if he got the idea from living in an area with a lot of mushrooms.

 

[Tabech29]

Have any photos of TPR, and biological children from his first marriage around toddler years been brought to the public? Maybe it'll be useful to see if there is any traits that could've been passed on to the unidentified child. Or it could spark somebody's memory? Maybe she resembled his eldest daughter, his mother, or other relatives?

 

[Springrain]

Have any photos of TPR, and biological children from his first marriage around toddler years been brought to the public? Maybe it'll be useful to see if there is any traits that could've been passed on to the unidentified child. Or it could spark somebody's memory? Maybe she resembled his eldest daughter, his mother, or other relatives?

Not helpful and I apologize for that, but when photos of him were released, I was personally really surprised at the resemblance I noticed between him and the reconstructions of MC from Carl and NCMEC. It was apparent enough for me to make note of it and be surprised by it at the time. So, I would not be surprised if she did bear a resemblance to Terry's other kids, but I don't think any photos have been released.

 

[Tabech29]

I just saw the one daughter on an interview and she still resembles her father somewhat. Be interesting if somebody could get a hold of her to see if she has any photos of herself, her father and even grandmother around that age. Maybe the composite is not quite exact and the people that saw her alive might have a different image of her.

 

[Springrain]

I just saw the one daughter on an interview and she still resembles her father somewhat. Be interesting if somebody could get a hold of her to see if she has any photos of herself, her father and even grandmother around that age. Maybe the composite is not quite exact and the people that saw her alive might have a different image of her.

I'd love to see a photo of Terry's mother as well. It could be helpful, especially if he took after her looks-wise.

One thing that I wonder if might complicate things is that MC was mixed-race, but it sounds like she was predominantly white, so she probably did look mostly white. I am the product of a white dad and a Filipino/white mom, some people instantly identify me as part Asian (although they normally guess half white/half Korean or Japanese), but many assume I am just white, usually eastern European. So you never know. Personally I definitely feel she probably looked a fair bit like Terry.

 

[Tee7077]

Bump

 

[squish]

I'd love to see a photo of Terry's mother as well. It could be helpful, especially if he took after her looks-wise.

One thing that I wonder if might complicate things is that MC was mixed-race, but it sounds like she was predominantly white, so she probably did look mostly white. I am the product of a white dad and a Filipino/white mom, some people instantly identify me as part Asian (although they normally guess half white/half Korean or Japanese), but many assume I am just white, usually eastern European. So you never know. Personally I definitely feel she probably looked a fair bit like Terry.

You can tell she must have looked like TPR, they have the same upturned nose and long philtrum.

I have cousins who are 25% Afro-Caribbean, so probably genetically 20% black, and one of them looks 100% white and blond, two look white but with slightly wider noses, and only one looks visibly mixed race.

I believe she looked white, she had light-brown hair that was slightly wavy and was not noted to look anything other than white in early descriptions, so there’s no reason to think she had facial features atypical for Europeans.

I think it was a mistake to produce a new facial reconstruction depicted her as dark-haired (factually incorrect), olive-skinned and visibly multiracial (highly unlikely). I also think it was a mistake to bring up her heritage without mentioning percentages, because we aren’t able to gauge what difference it would have made to her appearance, and people aren’t able to judge whether their own family history might be relevant to the case. It’s basically been worse than useless information, because they’ve now got people thinking she was an obvious multiracial child with known cultural ties to certain groups. It could stop white people looking at their own family trees.

 

[Winstigator23]

I agree he was a pedophile, but based on what we know, I disagree he targeted single mothers for that purpose, because not every woman he was involved with that we know of had children. Denise didn't have children prior to them meeting. We don't even know if she were pregnant before they met or became pregnant shortly after. And even if he knew she were pregnant upon meeting, he had no way of knowing she was carrying a girl. Eunsoon didn't have children. We don't know if the MC's mother had children before the MC, we don't know if the woman he brought with him the last time to see his family had kids. As far as we know, for certain, only Marlyse had children. This belief is subject to change as more information is discovered.

I think I read somewhere that Denise was fairly pregnant when they met. no?

 

[Alleykins]

I think I read somewhere that Denise was fairly pregnant when they met. no?

We don't know, and I don't recall reading she was pregnant for sure when they met, because we don't know when they met exactly. The pictures of TPR and Denise at that outdoor barbecue/party, she looked pregnant, but, based on D/L's birthdate, I think she was a couple months postpartum. There wasn't dates on the pictures that I remember.

 

[AliceInPain]

I think I read somewhere that Denise was fairly pregnant when they met. no?

In the Bear Brook Podcast they mention him introducing his very pregnant girlfriend to Ed Gallagher. If he had just met her or had been seeing her for a while, I haven't seen that beeing stated anywhere either.
I don't think he targeted women because of their children but single mothers can be very vulnerable, needing financial help, company, security etc. imo.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Bear Brook Jane Doe on The Doe Network:

802UFNH

 

[John/Jane Doe]

@Caring1 could you post the ban list for Bear Brook Jane Doe from NamUs? I would really appreciate it as I can't see the list of exclusions (I don't live in the US)

 

[MadMcGoo]

@Caring1 could you post the ban list for Bear Brook Jane Doe from NamUs? I would really appreciate it as I can't see the list of exclusions (I don't live in the US)

I’m not Caring, but I saw the notification. Here are the current exclusions on NamUs:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Of interest, as @carbuff pointed out on the UID thread, this is the first exclusion listed : The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

NamUs might be comparing DNA to potential mothers of the MC. Aleca Manning must also be on the list for that reason. (Sorry if this was previously mentioned and I don’t recall it!)

 

[Caring1]

I’m not Caring, but I saw the notification. Here are the current exclusions on NamUs:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

View attachment 372359

Of interest, as @carbuff pointed out on the UID thread, this is the first exclusion listed : The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

NamUs might be comparing DNA to potential mothers of the MC. Aleca Manning must also be on the list for that reason. (Sorry if this was previously mentioned and I don’t recall it!)

Thank you so much.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

I’m not Caring, but I saw the notification. Here are the current exclusions on NamUs:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

View attachment 372359

Of interest, as @carbuff pointed out on the UID thread, this is the first exclusion listed : The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

NamUs might be comparing DNA to potential mothers of the MC. Aleca Manning must also be on the list for that reason. (Sorry if this was previously mentioned and I don’t recall it!)

Thank you very much I really appreciate it.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

This woman's photo and protruding teeth caught my attention. Didn't TR spend some time in Canada at some point? Or say his wife was from there or something?

MISSING: Pamela Harvey (Rosseau) - 1978 - Sudbury, ON — Canada Unsolved — CANADA UNSOLVED

Pamela Harvey was looking for a new start when she moved to Sudbury, Ontario. When she disappeared in 1978, she left behind a young son and countless questions about how - and why - she vanished.

www.canadaunsolved.com

 

[MadMcGoo]

Another interesting possibility for anyone interested in going down the rabbit hole:

CA - CA - Dianne Jane Carlson, 29, Petaluma, August 14, 1976

NAMUS: https://www.namus.gov/MissingPersons/Case#/97264 --- First Name - Dianne Middle Name - Jane Last Name - Carlson Nickname/Alias - Dianne Jane Jensen Sex - Female Height - 5' 4" (64 Inches) Weight - 125 lbs Race / Ethnicity - White / Caucasian Date of Last Contact - August 14, 1976 NamUs...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Owutatangledweb]

This reminded me of Rasmussen.

A missing child was found alive after more than 40 years. But the search continues for her parents' killers, police say | CNN

A woman who was turned over to officials at an Arizona church as a baby more than four decades ago has been identified through DNA as the daughter of a Florida couple whose murdered bodies were found in Texas in 1981, officials said Thursday.

www.cnn.com