NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female, 23-33, & 3 Children, under 11, Nov'85 & May'00 #3

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I'm sure we've gone over this and I just can't remember (and I can't follow all the excellent genealogy work LOL), but who among us thinks MC was in the birthday photos? I feel like the best possibility is, if she was in the photos, that she was the little girl next to Marie blowing out the birthday cake candles?

I think that's exactly why they released those photos. The parents of those kids or the other kids themselves may be able to remember her first name at least, if not where she was from considering they moved there not long before.
 
I think that's exactly why they released those photos. The parents of those kids or the other kids themselves may be able to remember her first name at least, if not where she was from considering they moved there not long before.

Right, but she might be any of the girls, or none! I'd really love to hear everyone's opinion on who in the pic might be her. It's hard, because we know Terry was white, and she was described as predominantly white, but she also had a mixture of Asian, Black and Native American DNA, which is a bunch of different things and we don't know what amounts she had of what. Mixed-race children can turn out looking a variety of ways, so I think it's possible she was the beautiful little girl with darker skin next to Marie, but maybe not, she might have just looked white to everyone. I have to say, I was impressed with NCMEC and Carl's recons for her having her bear a resemblance to Terry BEFORE anyone knew he was her biological father or even his existence. When we find out her identity (God willing) I am curious to see if she will resemble Terry. Poor angel. :(

I'm also convinced that MC's birth certificate said one name, and Terry began referring to her as another name to throw people off, so two people who might remember her might know under two different names and not be able to make the connection that they were the same child. Terry's predilection for having a million aliases for himself, the child he abducted, and Marlyse really throws everything off. I can absolutely see someone vaguely remembering MC coming forward and saying "Oh, I remember little Abigail from Allenstown" (completely random name), but it turns out that was just a random name he gave her. IDK.
 
I think that's exactly why they released those photos. The parents of those kids or the other kids themselves may be able to remember her first name at least, if not where she was from considering they moved there not long before.
I agree. I think she may well be the child beside Marie and that was the reason for the release of the pictures. And if she isn’t, knowing when/where the pictures were taken could still help with the timeline of the family’s movements.
 
Right, but she might be any of the girls, or none! I'd really love to hear everyone's opinion on who in the pic might be her. It's hard, because we know Terry was white, and she was described as predominantly white, but she also had a mixture of Asian, Black and Native American DNA, which is a bunch of different things and we don't know what amounts she had of what. Mixed-race children can turn out looking a variety of ways, so I think it's possible she was the beautiful little girl with darker skin next to Marie, but maybe not, she might have just looked white to everyone.
I'm also certain that the girl you're referring to is MC - in my eyes all the features match marvellously for her to not be ruled out. However I did an experiment once with some friends (who are not familiar with the Bear Brook or any UID cases), where I showed her (girl next to Marie) picture and then the NCMEC recons, and asked if they thought they were the same girl. They both said no :/ Interesting how we see the faces differently.
 
I'm also certain that the girl you're referring to is MC - in my eyes all the features match marvellously for her to not be ruled out. However I did an experiment once with some friends (who are not familiar with the Bear Brook or any UID cases), where I showed her (girl next to Marie) picture and then the NCMEC recons, and asked if they thought they were the same girl. They both said no :/ Interesting how we see the faces differently.
I'm convinced she is also the girl next to Marie in those photos. Looking at the photos specifically, I believe her to be between five and six if she is indeed that girl. I'm going to see if I can blow up those photos and compare them to what I have from the target line to try and find similarities.
 
I'm convinced she is also the girl next to Marie in those photos. Looking at the photos specifically, I believe her to be between five and six if she is indeed that girl. I'm going to see if I can blow up those photos and compare them to what I have from the target line to try and find similarities.
Just some similarities I've noticed comparing the photos:
- Face shape, both girls have quite round/square-ish with a small chin
- Eye distance
- Mouth shape
Other than that, there aren't any other features I could guarantee were similar. I would've also pointed out the nose and hair, but I couldn't see the nose shape very well, and only the bangs are visible so the hair isn't also very clear.

On another note, looking at the other birthday picture, it looks like the girl is quite close to Marie age wise. Perhaps a year or two younger. If Marie was turning 6-7 years old, then the girl looks close to about that age-ish. Unlike MC who would've been a lot younger. Perhaps I'm just overthinking it. I would like to know anyone else's thoughts.
 
I'm also certain that the girl you're referring to is MC - in my eyes all the features match marvellously for her to not be ruled out. However I did an experiment once with some friends (who are not familiar with the Bear Brook or any UID cases), where I showed her (girl next to Marie) picture and then the NCMEC recons, and asked if they thought they were the same girl. They both said no :/ Interesting how we see the faces differently.

On another note, looking at the other birthday picture, it looks like the girl is quite close to Marie age wise. Perhaps a year or two younger. If Marie was turning 6-7 years old, then the girl looks close to about that age-ish. Unlike MC who would've been a lot younger. Perhaps I'm just overthinking it. I would like to know anyone else's thoughts.

I grabbed these two quotes because these are also my main hesitations regarding the girl in the birthday photo being MC. To me, it's not so much a heavy resemblance to her recon that makes me think it's her, but the fact that (from my experience as a mixed-race child in rural New England), there are very, very few mixed-race children in rural New England, and she is the only obviously child of color in the photos that could fit the age range. The age thing gives me pause, because I could see the little girl being 2-3 years younger than Marie, maybe 4 or 5 - which is still pushing it, especially factoring in the gap between the photos and the murders. So IDK. But I think if she is in the photos, she'd probably be that little girl.

I'm loving hearing everyone's thoughts about this, because it has been on my mind for a while.
 
I was investigating and I came across this woman, she asked me what is the possibility that she is the mother of Bear Brook Jane Doe.

Song Im Joseph – The Charley Project

Bear Brook Jane Doe

Andrea Stiers (one of Rasmussen's other daughters) believes that she once met the unidentified girl, "Stiers also believes that Jane Doe's mother was Asian; she remembers that Rasmussen showed her a map of Southeast Asia at that time".
 
Just some similarities I've noticed comparing the photos:
- Face shape, both girls have quite round/square-ish with a small chin
- Eye distance
- Mouth shape
Other than that, there aren't any other features I could guarantee were similar. I would've also pointed out the nose and hair, but I couldn't see the nose shape very well, and only the bangs are visible so the hair isn't also very clear.

On another note, looking at the other birthday picture, it looks like the girl is quite close to Marie age wise. Perhaps a year or two younger. If Marie was turning 6-7 years old, then the girl looks close to about that age-ish. Unlike MC who would've been a lot younger. Perhaps I'm just overthinking it. I would like to know anyone else's thoughts.

I think MC, if she is the girl in the photos, would have been four or five at the time. I am unsure whether Marie was big or small for her age, but from what it sounds like MC was on the bigger side for her estimated age. TBF this may rule out a few of the prospects in the target line for being a sibling of MC's mom just based on how small they looked for their age in photos I have been able to dig up.

I was investigating and I came across this woman, she asked me what is the possibility that she is the mother of Bear Brook Jane Doe.

Song Im Joseph – The Charley Project

Bear Brook Jane Doe

Andrea Stiers (one of Rasmussen's other daughters) believes that she once met the unidentified girl, "Stiers also believes that Jane Doe's mother was Asian; she remembers that Rasmussen showed her a map of Southeast Asia at that time".

While this could be possible, there is quite a bit of maternal DNA evidence that MC is linked to the Livings/Mitchell/Spiers families in South MS - and there have been confirmed matches up to about a third cousin I believe. Investigators have narrowed it down to what they believe to be a target line - and if that South Asia thing does happen to be true, it would be much more likely that MC's mom would be biracial.

I do want to mention that none of TPR's other kids have substantiated any of Andrea's claims regarding MC. While Song Im may be someone we should be looking into, there is no definitive proof that she (a) did not know who her bio father was and (b) is biracial. We are not looking for someone who is 100% Korean here - there needs to be a DNA connection to the Livings/Mitchell/Spiers line in some way.

At this point in time, I have at least two lines related to that target line that are definitive rule-outs as relayed to me by investigators - and this is out of ten children of the identified target child of TJ Mitchell who ended up living to adulthood. I am about 80 to 90 percent certain we are looking at an NPE here, and a bit less certain but still pretty confident that that NPE will be military related. TPR, before using an alias, was always around military bases and VA's.

I have two or three men related to the target line that I feel pretty confident may have fathered a child while in the military or on base, and most if not all of them are currently alive. Looking at the birth records for their recorded/listed children as well as marriages and residency records, I am putting MC's mother's birth estimated at around 1953-1955, likely in either Texas, New Mexico or Arizona. I have pinpointed a couple military bases I feel may be of significance with the one giving off the biggest red flags being Ft. Huachuca, which unfortunately does not have the best public records.

I believe that MC's maternal grandmother has some sort of Asian or Native American ancestry, whereas we do know that there is Black lineage in the Livings/Mitchell/Spiers line in multiple places. HOWEVER, we do need to remember that John Spiers, TJ Mitchell and William Livings were VERY LIKELY all slave owners, and there is a distinct possibility that our target TJ Mitchell child could have fathered a child with a Black woman in between the time his first wife died in 1899 and his second marriage in 1903. @Alleykins has done an incredible job with looking into census data and has identified this period as a strong possibility for an NPE given who was and was not married as well as physical locations of these individuals.

Based off what we do know about the closest match to MC, that individual's other parent has links to the Jarrell and Landrum families which have also intermarried into the Mitchell line numerous times. It may be worth our while to keep digging in that direction while we are also searching for military NPE's as the endogamy in this family is pretty widespread.
 
I'm not a genealogist expert like so many people on this thread (you guys are awesome!), but I can see a possibility of MC/MC's mom being Filipino? Is that possible? Filipinos are everywhere and there are a LOT of us out there with varying levels of Filipino ancestry...pretty common place for Southeast Asian people to come from.
 
I'm not a genealogist expert like so many people on this thread (you guys are awesome!), but I can see a possibility of MC/MC's mom being Filipino? Is that possible? Filipinos are everywhere and there are a LOT of us out there with varying levels of Filipino ancestry...pretty common place for Southeast Asian people to come from.
I could see this as a possibility given how widespread the Filipino community is in the US - I have Filipino family members as well - but I truly don’t want to put a ton of stock into anything that may have come from a statement of “possibly meeting MC” as a child from TPR’s kids because that’s been debunked MULTIPLE times. I believe that NH investigators have the entire maternal haplotype testing done and would be able to clearly state that MC’s mother or grandmother had a significant amount of Filipino or other Asian ancestry if that was truly the case - but that was not brought up by investigators in any report or any of my calls with them.
@othram or any other DNA expert here - I know this is not “your” case, but could you possibly give some kind of insight as to whether or not maternal haplotype testing would immediately be able to isolate potential Filipino/South Asian ancestry, specifically how significant the amount is? I really want to put some of these already debunked claims to bed and get back to the real task at hand here which is finding MC’s mother so we can bring her home.

Sorry for being harsh there, but that theory and information is in direct contradiction to information that has been discussed on this thread as well as information that has been directly relayed to myself and others by NH investigators.

I want to make it clear that investigators have NEVER made it public the percentages of nonwhite ancestry MC has, which is another roadblock to finding her identity, but it is pretty clear that the Black heritage is likely from the Livings/Mitchell/Spiers branch of the family - there were a variety of family members listed as “mulatto” or “dark” on WWI/WWII draft cards or census data, and specifically, Catherine Danielly (whose name you will recognize if you are digging deep into the records) is at least half Black, as are quite a few other significant names in the family at that time, 5-6 generations back from MC.
 
And of course we would not narrow possible NPE situations to times between marriages or when men were single. Frankly, almost all of the NPEs I’ve come across since working with genetic genealogy have occurred DURING marriage.

And there was ample opportunity for the MC's ancestors to mix and match with each others' spouses, while married, because they lived so darned close to each other.

My idea about TJ Mitchell stemss from the fact he didn't get married until he was 31, after the civil war, and I can't find him on the 1860 census to figure out where he was prior to the war. He could have had a whole other family out there. So, if anyone happens to stumble across him on the 1860 census, please let me know.
ETA: Also, there's no mention of a minor child, or any children, on either of his parents' death notices, and they died when he was very young. That doesn't indicate anything, I just found it odd. Maybe not out of the ordinary, strange, in my opinion. So, if someone finds a will or probate for Ellen or Samuel Peter Mitchell, I'm all ears.
 
And there was ample opportunity for the MC's ancestors to mix and match with each others' spouses, while married, because they lived so darned close to each other.

My idea about TJ Mitchell stemss from the fact he didn't get married until he was 31, after the civil war, and I can't find him on the 1860 census to figure out where he was prior to the war. He could have had a whole other family out there. So, if anyone happens to stumble across him on the 1860 census, please let me know.
ETA: Also, there's no mention of a minor child, or any children, on either of his parents' death notices, and they died when he was very young. That doesn't indicate anything, I just found it odd. Maybe not out of the ordinary, strange, in my opinion. So, if someone finds a will or probate for Ellen or Samuel Peter Mitchell, I'm all ears.
I saw a linked probate to someone in that line but I don’t remember exactly who it was - it was a few weeks back.
 
And of course we would not narrow possible NPE situations to times between marriages or when men were single. Frankly, almost all of the NPEs I’ve come across since working with genetic genealogy have occurred DURING marriage.
Yes this is correct- I’ve only seen probably 5-6 that don’t line up with a marriage. The guy at Huachuca I’m looking into has a really specific timeline based off the marriage record I found and what I know about that family and the likely enlistment date. Has anyone looked into missing people in that area specifically?
 
Catherine Danielly’s mother was Jane Deveraux of Hancock County, Georgia.

Jane’s father was Samuel Devereaux, mother is not listed. There was a man called Samuel Devereaux from Hancock County, who had 77 slaves, one of which was called Jane.

I wonder if that slave named Jane was Catherine Danielly’s mother and MC’s ancestor.

That would make Catherine approximately 1/4 black. She, and her daughters, and their daughters and on and on, would most likely have an African mtDNA haplogroup.

It would be interesting to know what MC’s haplogroup was.
 
Catherine Danielly’s mother was Jane Deveraux of Hancock County, Georgia.

Jane’s father was Samuel Devereaux, mother is not listed. There was a man called Samuel Devereaux from Hancock County, who had 77 slaves, one of which was called Jane.

I wonder if that slave named Jane was Catherine Danielly’s mother and MC’s ancestor.

That would make Catherine approximately 1/4 black. She, and her daughters, and their daughters and on and on, would most likely have an African mtDNA haplogroup.

It would be interesting to know what MC’s haplogroup was.
I think you are onto something. Catherine was always listed as “mulatto” on census data fwiw.
 

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