NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

[LookingForClues]

They don't know for sure, or haven't released more info anyway. It's by far the most likely they're sisters but they could be cousins or any other relationship where they're connected through the female line. All three women might be sisters or half-sisters. Aunt and nieces. Cousins of some sort. DNA wouldn't even rule out grandmother and granddaughters, though relative ages do.

One investigator I talked to years ago, when the DNA results first came out, mentioned a personal feeling that there wasn't enough age difference between the oldest girl and the adult female for them to be mother and daughter, if the woman is toward the younger end of the range and the girl is at the upper end. It would only be a bit over ten years. Note that was the investigator's speculation, not anything official.

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I've always been bothered by the short age span between the woman and oldest girl. I have wondered if they are step-sisters or simply sisters born about 10 years apart.

 

[carbuff]

I've always been bothered by the short age span between the woman and oldest girl. I have wondered if they are step-sisters or simply sisters born about 10 years apart.

Yeah, I've never felt like all the parts fit together to make a picture. It's like you pull at one loose end to straighten it, and something else comes loose somewhere else. It just doesn't all add up, and the new information we have about TR/RE hasn't shed much light.

 

[LucyOso]

Im sure this has been asked...but is there any chance they were dumped at different times?

 

[carbuff]

Since one of the two people in the second barrel is related to the two in the first barrel, that makes it much more likely they were all put there at the same time. I don't know if there's any forensic evidence about that though.

 

[Roselvr]

Just got an email about this case from NCMEC looking for donations. When I saw the subject "the face of a serial killer" I had a feeling it was about this case

Have you ever heard of a murder mystery where law enforcement knows who the killer is, but not the victim?*It sounds like the plot of a bestseller or a box office hit, but for police in Allenstown, New Hampshire, it’s reality.

For more than 30 years they have grappled with a case involving the remains of a woman and three children that were found in barrels in the woods.*The identities of this woman and these three young girls remain unknown, but DNA has helped identify the man that police suspect of killing them.*

Now, working with the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, law enforcement is asking for the public’s help to find someone that can help identify who these victims were and hopefully give them back the names that their killer has taken from them.*

Would you recognize the face of a serial killer?

Do you recognize this man? Please take the time to watch this video about new details the investigation has uncovered. You might have the information that police need.

We are currently assisting on more than 720 other cases of unidentified children’s remains – looking for answers about who they were and what happened to them.*Thank you for joining us in never giving up on the search for answers and justice for these children.*

Sincerely,*

Callahan Walsh
Child Advocate
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
www.missingkids.org

Video link - http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=0011LJQ...4vuIKOMVsb-e-l0dLH_6bIhBY8zDQQjUieS-hY_I8gg==

 

[Gardener1850]

Im sure this has been asked...but is there any chance they were dumped at different times?

I think it's possible they were dumped a few weeks or a few months apart but probably not years, JMO. I can see Rasmussen keeping his child and the youngest alive for a little while to attract a new woman victim. Perhaps that is when Elizabeth was at the house?

 

[Roselvr]

I think it's possible they were dumped a few weeks or a few months apart but probably not years, JMO. I can see Rasmussen keeping his child and the youngest alive for a little while to attract a new woman victim. Perhaps that is when Elizabeth was at the house?

Pretty sure that LE have said in the newer articles they feel they were all killed and dumped at the same time

 

[Gardener1850]

Pretty sure that LE have said in the newer articles they feel they were all killed and dumped at the same time

But could forensics tell if they were dumped a few weeks or months apart, since they were found years later? The two barrels were in close proximity to each other but they were not right next to each other. Why dump them in separate locations unless he was making multiple trips to dump them? Also why put the woman and the oldest child in one barrel and the two smallest in the other? The barrel with woman and older child would have been much heavier than the other barrel. Wouldn't it make more sense to balance out the weight for transporting them if transporting all at the same time? IDK the answers to anyone of this, I'm just saying I think it's possible there was a gap in time between killings or a gap in when he transported them for some reason. Could be only days or weeks. I don't think they were killed years apart or any huge gap of time. JMO. :moo:

 

[BillieL]

But could forensics tell if they were dumped a few weeks or months apart, since they were found years later? The two barrels were in close proximity to each other but they were not right next to each other. Why dump them in separate locations unless he was making multiple trips to dump them? Also why put the woman and the oldest child in one barrel and the two smallest in the other? The barrel with woman and older child would have been much heavier than the other barrel. Wouldn't it make more sense to balance out the weight for transporting them if transporting all at the same time? IDK the answers to anyone of this, I'm just saying I think it's possible there was a gap in time between killings or a gap in when he transported them for some reason. Could be only days or weeks. I don't think they were killed years apart or any huge gap of time. JMO. :moo:

How far apart were the barrels dumped?


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[Gardener1850]

How far apart were the barrels dumped?


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I'm not sure of the exact distance without looking it up but they were far enough away that the 2nd barrel was not found until 15 years after the 1st. In 1985, LE would have cordoned off the scene and searched for evidence all around that immediate area. But the 2nd barrel was only found by an investigator that went back to the scene in 2000 and took a walk.

ETA: Ok, I looked it up. They were found 100 yards apart according to Oakhill Research. There is a map that marks the locations and it looks to be a heavily wooded area with the two barrels found on different sides of the trail.

http://oakhillresearch.blogspot.com/

 

[Alleykins]

I thought I read in the Oakhill research blog that the barrels were originally thought to be together but some children were playing with them and rolled them away from each other? Does anyone else remember reading that somewhere?

 

[Gardener1850]

I thought I read in the Oakhill research blog that the barrels were originally thought to be together but some children were playing with them and rolled them away from each other? Does anyone else remember reading that somewhere?

I've never read that but it sounds like a plausible theory. Wouldn't metal barrels be sort of heavy for children to roll?

 

[Alleykins]

I've never read that but it sounds like a plausible theory. Wouldn't metal barrels be sort of heavy for children to roll?

Once they got tipped over, I don't think it would be too difficult to manuever, if there were a few kids doing it, especially if it were the one containing the two smaller children. The rolling hoops would have made it easier. I looked up steel drums when I dove into this case looking for oxidation rates, LOL. Not a barrel expert, by any means, but it's very interesting to read about.

 

[Eddie99]

They would be lighter, if the bodies decomposed in a pile of cat litter, for a few weeks/ months.

 

[Roselvr]

I thought I read in the Oakhill research blog that the barrels were originally thought to be together but some children were playing with them and rolled them away from each other? Does anyone else remember reading that somewhere?

You're correct

 

[Roselvr]

But could forensics tell if they were dumped a few weeks or months apart, since they were found years later? The two barrels were in close proximity to each other but they were not right next to each other. Why dump them in separate locations unless he was making multiple trips to dump them? Also why put the woman and the oldest child in one barrel and the two smallest in the other? The barrel with woman and older child would have been much heavier than the other barrel. Wouldn't it make more sense to balance out the weight for transporting them if transporting all at the same time? IDK the answers to anyone of this, I'm just saying I think it's possible there was a gap in time between killings or a gap in when he transported them for some reason. Could be only days or weeks. I don't think they were killed years apart or any huge gap of time. JMO. :moo:

I'm clueless why he put who he did in the barrels, it makes no sense to me, but who knows, maybe his daughter and the little one played together or had some sort of connection so he kept them together.

 

[Alleykins]

I'm clueless why he put who he did in the barrels, it makes no sense to me, but who knows, maybe his daughter and the little one played together or had some sort of connection so he kept them together.

I'm not sure why he would place them that way,either, considering it took more work & time to do it, and increased his chances of getting caught in the act. He appeared to me, from what we've heard about his trades and his escaping notice all this time, that he was a clever man and would have known this, too. My two theories are:
1. He was intoxicated and not thinking clearly, as we've learned he was a heavy drinker/alcoholic.
2. There was a psychological/emotional element for placing them the way he did. The FBI profiler stated this was an act of hatred. If I had to guess, it was more against the adult woman than the children. He may have placed them that way to keep his daughter away from the woman, and to keep the woman away from her baby, like a final act of revenge.

 

[Kiln Wood]

But could forensics tell if they were dumped a few weeks or months apart, since they were found years later? The two barrels were in close proximity to each other but they were not right next to each other. Why dump them in separate locations unless he was making multiple trips to dump them? Also why put the woman and the oldest child in one barrel and the two smallest in the other? The barrel with woman and older child would have been much heavier than the other barrel. Wouldn't it make more sense to balance out the weight for transporting them if transporting all at the same time? IDK the answers to anyone of this, I'm just saying I think it's possible there was a gap in time between killings or a gap in when he transported them for some reason. Could be only days or weeks. I don't think they were killed years apart or any huge gap of time. JMO. :moo:

Do we know for a fact he did indeed transport them?

 

[Gardener1850]

Do we know for a fact he did indeed transport them?

Hmmm... Good question. We know he likely transported the barrels there because they came from the mill where he was working and he had been involved in dumping waste from the mill shut down on that property. I suppose it's entirely possible he brought the woman and children to the park, murdered them there, wrapped them in plastic trash bags tied with electrical cable he had with him and then hid them in the barrels he had already put on the property. I think the assumption has always been that they were killed somewhere else and dumped there because of the care taken to conceal them in bags, cables and barrels. It would have taken some time to do all that work to package them in the barrels wrapped in plastic if he wasn't going to be moving them from the location they were killed. I also think the disturbed basement floor of the Manchester house he lived in at the time points to him keeping them in the basement for a time, but that's JMO.

 

[Alleykins]

You bring up a good point, Gardener. Let's say TR/RE buried & stored the bodies for any length of time in the cellar on Hayward St before putting them in the barrels, I imagine there would be dirt all through the plastic and maybe on the bodies.If they were stored in the barrels the whole time, it would be minimal, if non-existent. That's my line of thinking, anyway.