Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #10 *Arrest*

[HRCODEPINK]

Just wondering....

To all you sleuthers that have been doing this longer than me...

Does offering a reward like this ever work? I mean, is it really an incentive for someone that already knows what happened and haven't spoken out yet?

TIA!
:tyou:

Not only do people get rewards for information, but there are people who work cases, like we do, for nothing more than the hopes of getting a reward.

You don't often hear about reward money being handed out for a couple of reasons. First, in some states, it is illegal to release the names of paid informants, for their safety. Another issue is that people may look at the evidence or testimony of someone who received a reward and give it less weight than should be given because they were paid for the information. Another thing, like in the case of the DC Snipers, the two people who were given the reward were not paid for 2 years after they had helped because sometimes many people try to claim the reward and it takes time to decide which tips were actually worth the money. There are many factors involved and there are often times when a reward is given and we never hear about it at all. Lots of people won't turn anyone in even if there is a reward if they are afraid of the repercussions and this would probably be even more the case if every time someone got a large reward they had them at a press conference with a huge check like they do when people win the lottery. If I had information on a crime and was due a reward, I would want to remain anonymous. When you call Crime Line in my state, you are allowed to give as much information as you want about who you are and they assign you a number which they attach to your information and that becomes your identity until they decide who is getting the check.

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/mar/20/nation/na-reward20

ETA:

"For instance, the Austin, Texas crime stoppers program boasts that it has paid out close to $1 million in rewards since 1979. And the federal Rewards for Justice program (funded by federal tax dollars and private donations ) has paid over $80 million to tipsters who've help capture terrorist suspects.

And remember the Unibomber? His brother and sister-in-law collected the $1 million reward for his capture and conviction. It shows how the will to do what's right can overcome even family ties."

http://criminal.lawyers.com/Criminal-Law-Basics/Does-Offering-Rewards-To-Solve-Crimes-Pay-Off.html

And even if the rewards do not work in cases like this, no one has lost anything except the time it took to go on TV and offer the reward itself. If no one comes forward, no one gets paid.

 

[SurfieTX]

My daughter was the recipient of a Crime Stopper's reward. She was in the 7th grade at the time. They called me and told me to come to an administrative building. A man walked out and handed me a plain white envelope with no writing on it whatsoever. Inside the envelope wrapped in a trifold piece of printing paper were 5 crisp 100 dollar bills.

It was VERY covert...I almost felt a little weird.

ETA: We live in a small town like Celina's, and not one person in town or in LE spoke about my daughter's tip or knowledge about the crime.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Another question still lingering is does LE still believe it's a local?

The parade/fair went on as planned. At the news conference JY told the locals to be vigilant (don't recall the word she used). What does that tell us?

1. The person they suspect wouldn't be at the fair?

2. They wanted to see who showed up and who didn't?

3. The possible suspect is not a local?

Anything else? Thoughts?

It would be both extraordinary and grossly inappropriate for any community to cancel a civic event over the death of anyone, including a child.

I don't want this to come across as insensitive or unfeeling, but people die every single day, and even in a very small down they die at the rate of many per day. Some of them are kids, some teens, some young adults with kids of their own, some elderly. But every one of those deaths is a tragedy for someone. Singling out one of these deaths as special would be insensitive as hell to everyone else who died around festival time, and a terrible way to honor Celina's memory anyway.

As part of my job I attend these types of fairs and festivals pretty much every week. It generally much takes an act of god to cancel one, if for no other reason than that sometimes hundreds of businesses have each invested thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars into the event. The city and various agencies (or whoever is putting it on) might have invested hundreds of thousands or more. In some cases, particularly in this economy, arbitrarily cancelling the event will put a good number of those businesses into bankrupsy. Some of the organizations sponsoring events are charities, and if the event is cancelled that's it -- they are done, no more money for the poor and needy for that year.

I have even seen people die AT these events (why do you think the paramedics are standing by), including one a event few years ago in which a child was crushed by a parade float -- and this was in a VERY small town, few thousand people at best. The event was not even closed for the day. It was not closed for an hour. They stopped the parade and everything else went on as normal.

Again, not trying to be insensitive, but that's just how it is. And really, that's how it should be.

 

[Chris_Texas]

BBM/U :twocents: The simple point I'd like to make is that the Office of the Medical Examiner labels the manner of death as a homicide, the Law enforcement branch of investigation conduct their investigation into the suspicious death circumstances as if it were already identified as a homicide yet DO NOT treat any persons of interest as suspects of a declared homicide. (Specific jurisdictions use differing semantics but basically the same thought process, according to DH, retired Statie detective). On another point, given the scenario you identified (blanket &/or weights), this death still could be something other than homicide (now, before everyone jumps one me, I'm NOT suggesting it is but this could be a case of improper disposal of a body!).:truce:

:twocents: This case WILL play itself out when all the data is available, charges will be filed if needed unless the individual(s) involved choose to explain actions taken and accept consequences. This time the Power gave a child a visible voice & recovery in a timely manner, IMHO.:innocent:

Responding to the bolded section:

In such a case, I am confident that the case would be considered and labeled a potential homicide investigation. Suspicious (to me) means: "This might not be an accident or natural causes!" Potential Homicide (to me) means: "This could easily be a murder or suicide!"

If the body was found wrapped in a blanket and chained to a boat anchor I cannot imagine anyone using the word suspicious to describe the scene.

 

[Joe Friday]

It would be both extraordinary and grossly inappropriate for any community to cancel a civic event over the death of anyone, including a child.

I don't want this to come across as insensitive or unfeeling, but people die every single day, and even in a very small down they die at the rate of many per day. Some of them are kids, some teens, some young adults with kids of their own, some elderly. But every one of those deaths is a tragedy for someone. Singling out one of these deaths as special would be insensitive as hell to everyone else who died around festival time, and a terrible way to honor Celina's memory anyway.

As part of my job I attend these types of fairs and festivals pretty much every week. It generally much takes an act of god to cancel one, if for no other reason than that sometimes hundreds of businesses have each invested thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars into the event. The city and various agencies (or whoever is putting it on) might have invested hundreds of thousands or more. In some cases, particularly in this economy, arbitrarily cancelling the event will put a good number of those businesses into bankrupsy. Some of the organizations sponsoring events are charities, and if the event is cancelled that's it -- they are done, no more money for the poor and needy for that year.

I have even seen people die AT these events (why do you think the paramedics are standing by), including one a event few years ago in which a child was crushed by a parade float -- and this was in a VERY small town, few thousand people at best. The event was not even closed for the day. It was not closed for an hour. They stopped the parade and everything else went on as normal.

Again, not trying to be insensitive, but that's just how it is. And really, that's how it should be.

Dying of natural causes is one thing, including having a heart attack at the fair or festival. A child that has been missing for a week, found dead in the river, most likely murdered, is another.

<modsnip>

 

[curiousgirl2010]

It seems like WN has been cleared... It definitely didn't seem like they were looking at him from the PC.

I wonder what "cleared" him? Maybe he has an alibi for being home the whole night?

 

[Chris_Texas]

It seems like WN has been cleared... It definitely didn't seem like they were looking at him from the PC.

I wonder what "cleared" him? Maybe he has an alibi for being home the whole night?

Do you have a source?

If not, I doubt anyone has been officially cleared.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

I don't have a source. I said it "seems" like he is not the main POI.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I don't have a source. I said it "seems" like he is not the main POI.

Gotcha! I should have read more carefully.

 

[Wholehearted]

BBM/U :twocents: The simple point I'd like to make is that the Office of the Medical Examiner labels the manner of death as a homicide, the Law enforcement branch of investigation conduct their investigation into the suspicious death circumstances as if it were already identified as a homicide yet DO NOT treat any persons of interest as suspects of a declared homicide. (Specific jurisdictions use differing semantics but basically the same thought process, according to DH, retired Statie detective). On another point, given the scenario you identified (blanket &/or weights), this death still could be something other than homicide (now, before everyone jumps one me, I'm NOT suggesting it is but this could be a case of improper disposal of a body!).:truce:

:twocents: This case WILL play itself out when all the data is available, charges will be filed if needed unless the individual(s) involved choose to explain actions taken and accept consequences. This time the Power gave a child a visible voice & recovery in a timely manner, IMHO.:innocent:

I wanted to say thanks for sharing this information, and to ask a question. Not to go too OT, but what would be the difference between how police treat persons of interest between when the death is officially a homicide and when it's in that limbo of not being declared yet? Is it how vigorously the POI is investigated, or something else? TIA!

 

[~n/t~]

I would think in a small town, locals would know who got a reward. If Mr. neighbor never had a car and he suddenly has a sparkling new vehicle in his driveway, I would think people would notice (just an example). I don't think you can be as discreet in a small town versus a big city but hey that's just my opinion. Unless of course, you move but that still leaves people scratching their heads. :waitasec:

 

[~n/t~]

Dying of natural causes is one thing, including having a heart attack at the fair or festival. A child that has been missing for a week, found dead in the river, most likely murdered, is another.

<modsnip>

Especially if the perp is amongst them. As a parent, I'd be very concerned but maybe they know something we don't ?

 

[Morag]

...It generally much takes an act of god to cancel one, if for no other reason than that sometimes hundreds of businesses have each invested thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars into the event. The city and various agencies (or whoever is putting it on) might have invested hundreds of thousands or more. In some cases, particularly in this economy, arbitrarily cancelling the event will put a good number of those businesses into bankrupsy.. .

Chris, I think you may be imagining a much more elaborate festival than this one. Small New England towns -villages, in this case- usually have some sort of parade/festival in August. A few floats, a few balloons, the Boy Scouts in uniform, that's about it. The local merchants (the mini-mart, the Spa Restaurant) aren't anticipating hordes of out-of-towners to buy soda and sandwiches. It's just the people of the town, getting together, more like a block party. You may well attend many similar occasions, but you probably wouldn't be bothered to go to one like this one.

 

[joypath]

I wanted to say thanks for sharing this information, and to ask a question. Not to go too OT, but what would be the difference between how police treat persons of interest between when the death is officially a homicide and when it's in that limbo of not being declared yet? Is it how vigorously the POI is investigated, or something else? TIA!

:floorlaugh: DH re-read what I wrote, has declared that I :innocent: muddied the waters a "bit". His point was the good ole Miranda rights are given/read to just about every breathing humanoid during an obvious homicide/ME declared death case! Every other death investigation (& for that matter ANY investigation!), they are applied PRN (as needed!). He claims that the ever popular "CSI" effect frequently shuts down potential information, even innocuous data, once the "rights card" comes out! :banghead:

 

[Chris_Texas]

Chris, I think you may be imagining a much more elaborate festival than this one. Small New England towns -villages, in this case- usually have some sort of parade/festival in August. A few floats, a few balloons, the Boy Scouts in uniform, that's about it. The local merchants (the mini-mart, the Spa Restaurant) aren't anticipating hordes of out-of-towners to buy soda and sandwiches. It's just the people of the town, getting together, more like a block party. You may well attend many similar occasions, but you probably wouldn't be bothered to go to one like this one.

Thanks.

 

[k4kathy]

Dying of natural causes is one thing, including having a heart attack at the fair or festival. A child that has been missing for a week, found dead in the river, most likely murdered, is another.

<modsnip>[/QUOTE
I couldn't have said it better, Joe.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I've tried to keep an open mind through this entire case. I was leaning towards WN for quite a while, but could never quite get on that board fully.

A few things I had considered were bullying or suicide or even accident.

KL was at a sleepover w/a friend. Maybe CC tried to sneak over there? Maybe KL & her friend called CC or IMd her on FB and told her to meet them. Maybe they played a trick on her and told her to meet them somewhere w/no intention of meeting up w/her. Maybe they did meet up w/her and they all hung out, the other girls went home and CC never made it home.

The blanket, IMO, doesn't mean much b/c we don't have confirmation on it. Even if there was a blanket it doesn't rule out suicide, what if she hanged herself w/a blanket?

Nothing we've seen has suggested suicide, but until it's ruled a homicide, I suppose it's still an option.

I also have to agree w/a PP who suggested a stranger abduction or serial killer. I've wondered if there have been other girls that have gone missing and turned up dead. Is there a serial killer who could be linked to this case? Could it be someone who patiently and methodically waits for the right victim, possibly spacing them out to be less obvious?

The latest reward offer has really discouraged me. I want to see justice for Celina. I sincerely hope that no one in her family was involved, I'd imagine that'd make it that much harder for her sister & mother to move on.

 

[JeannieC]

I think someone got her to come out. Maybe friends,a friend, or family member and maybe they were picking on her. It could have been a boy. He/she got too rough, it might have been a accident and her death was covered up.

 

[SharkDog]

I feel that because Celina "looked older," many of us keep forgetting that she still had an entire year left in elementary school. She was only going into FIFTH grade. Most of the risky behaviors which have been mentioned are typical of middle or high school students, but not elementary school kids! I can't imagine any elementary school kid I've worked with in the majority of scenarios recently discussed. One of Celina's friends talked about them learning how to do cartwheels, and the girls wore her "princess costumes" on the float...Those are typical behaviors for girls in her grade.

I was a very wild preteen/teen, but I didn't even start doing rebellious stuff until 6th grade!

That's not to say that she couldn't have been pressured, lured, or forced into a situation with older kids...

Just my opinion of course and surely anything is possible...

BTW, today I saw a girl coming out of a store with her mother that looked so much like Celina - the face, hair, height...I couldn't stop staring at her. Such a young age...So tragic

 

[JeannieC]

I apologize, when I said come out I meant come outside. Not go running around the neighborhood unless it was with an older group of kids.