Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #11 *Arrest*

[cluciano63]

So maybe there wasn't a blanket at all? Mom asked to see it, LE declined. Maybe there never was one.

 

[k4kathy]

Could just be How LN phrased her sentences. Her choice of prepositions may differ compared to what you or I might use.

 

[deelytful1]

So maybe there wasn't a blanket at all? Mom asked to see it, LE declined. Maybe there never was one.

I was thinking that myself. LE NEVER confirmed there was a blanket. The media determined there was a blanket but others said it just may have been something LE wrapped the body in to get it out of the water.
We really don't know much about this case, huh? No cause of death? Blanket, no blanket? POI? Sigh...

 

[Pensfan]

So maybe there wasn't a blanket at all? Mom asked to see it, LE declined. Maybe there never was one.

Articles stated that there was a blanket, but who knows? They brought Celina out of the water in some type of bag and nobody could see a blanket.
http://www.wmur.com/r/28763079/detail.html

I didn't read anything about discovered blood (like you'd expect with a slashing or stabbing). Did anyone read anything about blood in the house?

Does anyone know if LE ever returned Wendell's truck? Did it still have that large garbage can sitting in the pickup bed?

 

[bstnh1]

I think WN murdered Celina and I do not apologize for stating it at all. I also believe he was probably just fine until HE decided he did not want to be. He is crazy when it suits his purpose, IMO.

MOO

I disagree with you completely. WN was discharged from the military due to his condition. He was also found incompetent to stand trial. You don't fake a mental illness that well!

Whoever murdered Celina covered his/her tracks very well. I simply do not believe WN has the mental stability and clarity of mind to carry out something like that and leave no trace.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I don't recall anything at all about blood, sorry. :waitasec:

 

[cluciano63]

If there had been blood and/or slash marks in the "blanket" or clothing, it seems a cause of death probably could have been determined much earlier.

 

[gnomony]

If there had been blood and/or slash marks in the "blanket" or clothing, it seems a cause of death probably could have been determined much earlier.

Well... blood doesn't mean death... one or more slashes wouldn't necessarily cause death... just like being under water for days doesn't mean she drowned... that's why they do all the tests... Their caution makes sense to me.

 

[Wholehearted]

I am Eastern Orthodox and have made hundreds is not thousands of prostrations during Great Lent over many decades. This is what Wendell looked like he was trying to do in his psychotic state in the street, IMO.

Get out your Phenergan suppositories! Wendell is diagnosed as schizophrenic. Schizophrenics have psychotic episodes. Psychotic episodes can be decreased in frequency and severity with meds and Wendell was very likely not on any meds.

I will be the one shouting the loudest announcing that if Wendell killed Celina that he needs to be locked away forever even if he is deemed to be mentally incompetent because of his psychosis or brain damage from unmedicated numerous past psychoses. His violent history, his alcohol "problem", his unwillingness to take his meds in the past, and his psychotic episodes are WHY he should be locked up forever, IMO.

Pensfan
______
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

Has it been verified that WN has an alcohol problem, or has been noncompliant in taking his meds in the past?

I'm also confused by the theory put forth by some posters that WN is/was "acting crazy" in order to appear innocent. Wouldn't acting normally be a more effective way to make you look innocent? Why would someone act in a totally bizarre manner in a very public forum in order to convince people that he is not responsible for committing a crime?

With this line of thinking, there's no way to fairly evaluate WN. It assumes that either he's faking mental illness, and is therefore guilty, or that he's actually mentally ill, and therefore guilty.

The fact that the other male member of the household was compliant with police doesn't mean much, IMO. Again, wouldn't a guilty person want to cooperate, so as to distract attention from himself?

MOO. Everyone's entitled to their own, and I very well may be totally off about WN. But I don't feel like I have enough information to have any idea who's guilty.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

So maybe there wasn't a blanket at all? Mom asked to see it, LE declined. Maybe there never was one.

Question:

At what point does the parents "right" to observe the condition of their child's body and associated clothing cease to exist?


Answers:

• When LE does not want to reveal the condition of the body and clothing?
• When the body and clothing are in LEs possession and are being held for an active investigation?
• When LE doesn't know 'who did it'?
• When LE attempts to protect the psyche of the parents?

 

[AnaTeresa]

It's also entirely possible that LE consider mom an informal suspect, and thus are holding back on showing her evidence that would implicate her. Given the limited information we have, I don't know if we can really figure out LE's game at this point.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Brain-storming follows:

Did the "social gathering" on the front porch include LN, WN, WN's mother and Celina?

Drinking?

"Oh, what the heck, let her have a swig!"

Perhaps she was given too much during the course of the evening?

Inadvertent alcohol poisoning?

Passed out?

Carried to her sofa / bedroom?

Vomited on the blanket / pajama top?

Later, during the evening, found to be unresponsive or deceased by someone checking on her?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

http://www.wmur.com/news/29453906/detail.html

 

[ChuckMaureen]

The longer I think about Celina's case the more I recall from earlier articles and posts:

Ramblings follow:

Aug 1, 2011 a diver on the team searching Back Pond was directed to go to the Connecticut River near the dam to investigate for a "bag". I believe that info was extracted either from LE scanners or from a news article.

The AAG's Aug 1, 2011 press conference revealed Celina's death was then being treated as "suspicious" based on "visual" evidence .. and the word "placed" (assume opposed to having had fallen in) was used to describe how Celina's body was located in the river.

After autopsy and toxicology were completed, the AG confirmed LE believes Celina Cass was murdered.

Since a diver was instructed to investigate for a "bag" we might safely assume Celina was indeed wrapped in a blanket or possibly was placed in to a "bag". Celina's mother is on record for stating someone "threw her away like a piece of trash". That gives a "bag" theory some credence.

AG used words like "located" and "placed", and confirmed what LE visually observed of Celina's body lead them to believe it was a "suspicious" death, and eventually a "murder" based on autopsy / toxicology. That allows for ruling our suicide and confirms one or more people are responsible for Celina's death.

"Placed", not "dropped". Someone who cared for Celina?

Statistics reveal murders such as this most likely are committed by a family member, with a next likely candidate being a family friend or at least someone known by / to the victim.

To date, public observation of the family confirms an apparent grief. Suspicions abound but, no evidence is made available on which to base said suspicions.

As the case continues, family members have been providing additional detail in their commentary, i.e.: "we left the door unlocked" and "socializing on the porch". Changing stories are almost always considered by LE as red-flag material.

I suspect it is no different in this case.

LN and WN no longer live together. Did LN hatch her own thoughts regarding WN and why she no longer wants him around or, was there external influence that lead LN to make that decision?

Did LN already, long before Celina's missing / murdered state, hold suspicions regarding WN and if so, beginning from when and for how long?

If not, why now? Is it based on statistics or, on WN's previous actions that now 'make sense'?

Also, I believe the delay after autopsy, that "waiting for toxicology" was used to possibly cause stress to LE's secret POI(s).

I believe LE was told early on about "drinking" and "socializing on the porch". I bleieve LE was following up with all possibilities and used the "toxicology results" to "confirm" Celina was murdered as an emotional and stress trigger as in, were adults allowing Celina to drink during socializing parties?

Not likely but it's a possibility on which LE would follow up. So, what's next? Wait for someone to provide additional witness or, to confess?

LN apparently has abandoned WN and, a most recent news video about and of WN reveals townfolk avoid him as he forcefully denies with: [he had] "nothing to do with it".

It seems WN is convicted in public court, with no evidence and no trial.

Remember: innocent, unless proven guilty.

Final thoughts:

Whom else knew the door would be "unlocked" that evening?

 

[Pensfan]

Has it been verified that WN has an alcohol problem, or has been noncompliant in taking his meds in the past?

Respectfully shortened-

No, Wendell didn't announce that he was an alcoholic or noncompliant with his medication. Here are some facts that lead to this assumption:

Non-compliance rates for schizophrenia are SEVENTY FIVE percent.

Non-compliance is among the most common causes of psychotic relapse. (Wendell wasn’t admitted for months to a psych hospital because he wanted to hang with the psych nurses (although we ARE a fun group ). He was readmitted because he was having some symptom of psychosis.

47% of schizophrenics in America have a substance abuse problem (most are alcoholics). The incidence of addiction is greater among males and those in the age bracket of 18 to 44.

Celina’s mom stated that WN had been drinking on the porch with friends. If he was having lemonade with friends, she might have worded this statement differently because to most, it implies that he was drinking some type of alcohol.

Violence is more prevalent among the dually diagnosed population. Wendell had been arrested before for violence (breaking into his ex-girlfriend’s home and threatening her with his behavior).

Wendell was in the psychiatric facility an unusually long time for his diagnosis. Schizophrenics who are also addicts have a longer length of stay when admitted to psych hospitals than schizophrenics who are not addicts.

I previously posted links for the above facts in this thread.

Pensfan
______
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[Pensfan]

http://www.wmur.com/news/29453906/detail.html

"We left the door unlocked that night for somebody else to pop in. And, I don't know," Noyes told WMUR's Amy Coveno.
http://www.wmur.com/news/29453906/detail.html#ixzz1bAvpsWZx

I'd like to think that this dumb statement was caused by Wendell's anti-psychotic medication affecting his ability to create a believable lie, but who knows? Maybe Wendell left the door unlocked because he didn't care at all for Celina and her sister? He did allow his stepdaughters to sleep in the partially finished basement. :furious: That home is for sale now and the realitor's listing states that it is partially finished.

 

[bstnh1]

"We left the door unlocked that night for somebody else to pop in. And, I don't know," Noyes told WMUR's Amy Coveno.
http://www.wmur.com/news/29453906/detail.html#ixzz1bAvpsWZx

I'd like to think that this dumb statement was caused by Wendell's anti-psychotic medication affecting his ability to create a believable lie, but who knows? Maybe Wendell left the door unlocked because he didn't care at all for Celina and her sister? He did allow his stepdaughters to sleep in the partially finished basement. :furious: That home is for sale now and the realitor's listing states that it is partially finished.

According to news releases WN left the door unlocked because KM would be coming in later. A partially finished basement does not mean the bedroom down there was not fully furnish. The bedroom most likely occupies only a portion of the basement. The remainder of the basement is the unfinished portion.

 

[Joe Friday]

"We left the door unlocked that night for somebody else to pop in. And, I don't know," Noyes told WMUR's Amy Coveno.
http://www.wmur.com/news/29453906/detail.html#ixzz1bAvpsWZx

I'd like to think that this dumb statement was caused by Wendell's anti-psychotic medication affecting his ability to create a believable lie, but who knows? Maybe Wendell left the door unlocked because he didn't care at all for Celina and her sister? He did allow his stepdaughters to sleep in the partially finished basement. :furious: That home is for sale now and the realitor's listing states that it is partially finished.

"Someone to pop in" is a strange statement to make for a person who is living in the same household.... Why didn't WN say the door was left unlocked for KM when he came home????

You would also think KM would have had a key to the door if he was actually living there, especially if security was that big of an issue. Apparently in the Noyes household the doors must have been kept locked at all time for WN to make a point of telling the reporter that the door had being left unlocked that night for someone to pop in.

JMO

 

[bstnh1]

It's also entirely possible that LE consider mom an informal suspect, and thus are holding back on showing her evidence that would implicate her. Given the limited information we have, I don't know if we can really figure out LE's game at this point.

That's one thing that I have not seen mentioned - that LN could be the perp. Many folks have been taking LN's remarks as gospel. Why? Although everyone's eyes are on others as potential suspects, keep in mind that there have been several very believable crying mothers of missing children who later were found to have been responsible for the death of their child. Consider this....do we know that LN actually watched a movie with Celina? Do we know she actually went to bed at 9 pm? Do we know for sure that what she's stated about WN being on the porch drinking is factual information? Just like we do not have enough information to declare anyone guilty in this case, we do not have enough information to definitely state that anyone associated with this case is not guilty.

 

[Wholehearted]

Respectfully shortened-

No, Wendell didn't announce that he was an alcoholic or noncompliant with his medication. Here are some facts that lead to this assumption:

Non-compliance rates for schizophrenia are SEVENTY FIVE percent.

Non-compliance is among the most common causes of psychotic relapse. (Wendell wasn’t admitted for months to a psych hospital because he wanted to hang with the psych nurses (although we ARE a fun group ). He was readmitted because he was having some symptom of psychosis.

47% of schizophrenics in America have a substance abuse problem (most are alcoholics). The incidence of addiction is greater among males and those in the age bracket of 18 to 44.

Celina’s mom stated that WN had been drinking on the porch with friends. If he was having lemonade with friends, she might have worded this statement differently because to most, it implies that he was drinking some type of alcohol.

Violence is more prevalent among the dually diagnosed population. Wendell had been arrested before for violence (breaking into his ex-girlfriend’s home and threatening her with his behavior).

Wendell was in the psychiatric facility an unusually long time for his diagnosis. Schizophrenics who are also addicts have a longer length of stay when admitted to psych hospitals than schizophrenics who are not addicts.

I previously posted links for the above facts in this thread.

Pensfan
______
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

Thank you for sharing your expertise. I'm simply trying to point out that though statistically addiction and non-compliance are common issues for those who suffer from paranoid schizophrenia, we don't know the details of WN's history. I'm not comfortable making assumptions about his history or behavior. But I see your point regarding the statistics.