Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 9 *Arrest*

[katydid23]

It sounds like they think she was poisoned OR she accidentally OD'ed.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm trusting those of you who know the DA - she just won't let this quietly :banghead:slip under the rug....

No one thinks that, as far as I know...she will do her best to find out what happened, whether murder, accidental, etc...

 

[JeannieC]

Correct me if I'm wrong. An autopsy would show if she was strangled, beaten, stabbed, shot, struck on the head, or drowned.

It might not show if she was smothered, poisoned, drugged, or had alcohol poisoning. Stomach content would have to be analyzed.

Any ideas anyone?

 

[jjenny]

That new article claims that an autopsy failed to determine how she died and they hope the tox tests will shed light on her death...

Wonder if this is true, or just interpretation by the reporter...
LE has never really yet come out and said this is a "murder" to my knowledge have they? I know they were/are doing a criminal investigation but have they ever said a murder investigation? Just wondering.

We know AG said the results are pending. All the press took it and run with "autopsy failed to determine the cause of death." I don't read anything into it at all.

 

[bstnh1]

I have wondered the same. When they found the body, they began to refer to it as a suspicious death. Since then, I have seen it referred to in the media as a criminal investigation. I'm not sure whether there has been an official change from suspicious to criminal.

We also still don't know whether they have a POSSIBLE cause of death. The likelihood that they know the COD seems to fade with every passing day. In other words, more toxicology testing would indicate to me that the early tests have not turned up anything.

They referred to it as a suspicious death and they are still referring to it as a suspicious death. They have never referred to it as a homicide or a murder. Shortly after they found her body they announced that it was now a criminal investigation. So putting all that together, it's s criminal investigation of a suspicious death. The fact that her body was found wrapped in a blanket would be enough in and of itself to call it a suspicious death. If the death was due to poisoning, drugs, alcohol, etc., the tox tests would be be necessary to determine that.

 

[cluciano63]

If cause of death has not been determined in fact, they could still likely tell whether or not she was alive when she was put into the water, and of course it would be a "suspcious" death if she was not alive at that time, blanket or no blanket.

But we don't know whether LE knows the cause of death or not.

 

[bstnh1]

I am so stumped. Does this mean there will be a tie in from the results of the tox report to and arrest? I don't like that.
The person/persons can crack, run, commit another such act etc in the meantime.

That's true. But my guess is that they have one or two potential suspects in mind and they're keeping close tabs on them. I think they know a lot more than what we've been told.

 

[HeinekenMan]

They referred to it as a suspicious death and they are still referring to it as a suspicious death. They have never referred to it as a homicide or a murder. Shortly after they found her body they announced that it was now a criminal investigation. So putting all that together, it's s criminal investigation of a suspicious death. The fact that her body was found wrapped in a blanket would be enough in and of itself to call it a suspicious death. If the death was due to poisoning, drugs, alcohol, etc., the tox tests would be be necessary to determine that.

Thanks. Some suicides are called suspicious deaths until they reach a conclusion. I think what's so frustrating is that you can't even discuss possible motive when you don't know the details of her death.

 

[joypath]

If I may.....This is regarded as a "suspicious death" due to the fact that the death occurred while the child was missing and that her body was recovered under unusual circumstances. Her death became a ME case because she died outside of medical care, under unusual circumstances, was under the age of 18 and probably fell under some other state public health statutes......the "criminal investigation" status is separate from the medical examiner's "suspicious death" investigation.

The manner of death will be identified as one of the following: natural, suicide, accidental, homicide, undetermined and in some jurisdictions, pending and a family will be permitted to have a service but other activities may occur also (ie. LE investigations, body retention, etc). The cause of death is determined to be the MEDICAL reason why life was terminated (ie. atrial fib, ventricular fib, hypoxia, etc).

The "simple" recovery of the wrapped submerged body was just the beginning of the scientific and forensic investigation into her death, the entire recovery zone both her watery grave and the shoreline were zone searched for "tidbits" of trace evidence if available. Putting together the puzzle takes time and attention to detail keeps the case tight and hopefully, easy for a jury to digest!:rocker:

 

[HeinekenMan]

Now I understand how you can have a suspicious death that does not result in a criminal investigation. This one is both. I don't recall the AG mentioning anything about manner of death. But it's safe to assume that she was murdered. Otherwise, there would be no reason for a criminal investigation.

My understanding is that there is a standard toxicological inquiry. Once that is complete, they can choose to continue testing for other toxins. It seems that continuing to test would indicate that the standard testing was not enough. This also indicates, at least to me, that there is not a lot of good evidence pertaining to cause of death.

 

[cluciano63]

I believe a criminal investigation would take place in order to determine if a murder occurred...especially if a body is found in a river. I still don't think it automatically means murder. It could mean improper disposal of a body, which is a crime.

 

[Periwinkl3]

Correct me if I'm wrong. An autopsy would show if she was strangled, beaten, stabbed, shot, struck on the head, or drowned.

It might not show if she was smothered, poisoned, drugged, or had alcohol poisoning. Stomach content would have to be analyzed.

Any ideas anyone?

It depends on whether they did the autopsy right: in addition to stomach, all her body fluids should have had labs done. Also, certain COD's cause visible organ failure. Smothering would prevent water from entering her lungs, IIRC.

In a party house, on a summer night--a young girl might try whatever's making the older kids so friendly/funny (drugs, alcohol). Several kids in my child's high school and college have had alcohol poisoning in the last couple of years. Celina wasn't very big, so it wouldn't take much of anything to cause an overdose, and/or if she was on medication herself (say, for asthma), she could have had a reaction. Her father has heart problems as well; if she did, too--all bad possibilities.

 

[Noway]

Does LE know (and have they said) where Celina went into the water? I know where they found her but wonder whether there isn't actually another 'crime scene' location that LE is looking at.

 

[cluciano63]

Does LE know (and have they said) where Celina went into the water? I know where they found her but wonder whether there isn't actually another 'crime scene' location that LE is looking at.

If they know, they didn't say...

 

[Periwinkl3]

If I may...The manner of death will be identified as one of the following: natural, suicide, accidental, homicide, undetermined and in some jurisdictions, pending and a family will be permitted to have a service but other activities may occur also (ie. LE investigations, body retention, etc). The cause of death is determined to be the MEDICAL reason why life was terminated (ie. atrial fib, ventricular fib, hypoxia, etc)....

Very well explained, and thank you. Would both COD and MOD have to go on the death certificate in every case?

 

[joypath]

If cause of death has not been determined in fact, they could still likely tell whether or not she was alive when she was put into the water, and of course it would be a "suspicious" death if she was not alive at that time, blanket or no blanket.

But we don't know whether LE knows the cause of death or not.

BBM: Identification of her status as she entered the H20 is a very simple test: one sets up histological blocs and slides of her lung tissue, cuts and stains them and observes them under the microscope. What one should observe is small air pockets, in the case of a drowning victim, those air sacs are filled with fluid.
Caveat: ~10-20% of the drowning cases can be dry drowning without fully involved lung tissue.
Also one will be looking for regional diatoms within the body tissue, if present they would indicate that she was alive entering the H20. Other members of the algae family within the corpse may provide other timeline indicators.

For a great reference (it's in some technicalese but not too much!): DROWNING INVESTIGATIONS - Cold Case Investigations

 

[katydid23]

Now I understand how you can have a suspicious death that does not result in a criminal investigation. This one is both. I don't recall the AG mentioning anything about manner of death. But it's safe to assume that she was murdered. Otherwise, there would be no reason for a criminal investigation.

My understanding is that there is a standard toxicological inquiry. Once that is complete, they can choose to continue testing for other toxins. It seems that continuing to test would indicate that the standard testing was not enough. This also indicates, at least to me, that there is not a lot of good evidence pertaining to cause of death.

BBM

There could be a criminal investigation even w/out a murder. She could have been given drugs or alcohol and died accidentally. She could have OD'ed on her own and then been disposed of. [ I do NOT believe this of course.]

 

[k4kathy]

Um, actually I think she is right. We just have to take into account the fact that for these individuals - because of how they were raised or whatever - keeping quiet brings significant emotional reward in and of itself.

Sorry, but I don't but this theory.

 

[joypath]

Very well explained, and thank you. Would both COD and MOD have to go on the death certificate in every case?

Y/W :seeya:

:twocents: Every death certificate MUST have a Cause of death = COD and a Manner of death = MOD and a Time of death = TOD. The CDC (your government a work~) has worked VERY HARD to try to standardize the death certificate format and "they" use the data provided by all parties to create some really helpful databases.!:innocent:

Now one can "see" why many folks:innocent: in the fields of science are trying to move FAR away for the old coroner days where "anybody" could fill out a death certificate! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[joypath]

Correct me if I'm wrong. An autopsy would show if she was strangled, beaten, stabbed, shot, struck on the head, or drowned.

It might not show if she was smothered, poisoned, drugged, or had alcohol poisoning. Stomach content would have to be analyzed.

Any ideas anyone?

:twocents: BBM: :rocker:IF performed correctly, it COULD! strangled=ligature marks, beaten=hematomas,stabbed=lacs with length/width to a weapon match, perhaps, shot=bullet left in, with matching grooves, perhaps, struck=with craters & splinters, drowned=frothy lung tissue.

:innocent:Those are the quick clues for those examples and here are some more:
Smothered=petichae in the eyes, skin lividity; poisoned=cherry red color,renal crystals, GC/MS results; drugged=GC/MS results; ETOH=GC/MS results, body odor.

Stomach contents are a fantastic look into the last few hours of the victim's life as we can actually calculate the digestive process. Yes, the fluid would be analyzed and additionally the pathologist would request analysis of all other body fluids.:rocker: