NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[Captain_Khan]

These same questions have been asked and speculated on for many years. Only 2 people for sure know the answer. Neither is answering, likely never will unless Maura appears to tell her story or Fred decides to fess up.

Since there was a lull of several days without a post, I thought it was worth bringing up a discussion point.

 

[scoops]

I touched on something earlier and wanted to expand on it, if possible.

Why was Maura in possession of her Father’s car at the time of her first accident?

Fred comes to Maura’s university with the intention of buying a new car with her (supposedly). He stays the night in a local hotel, lending Maura his car – despite the fact that he had to drive back home the next day.

Why? To me, this seems very strange. Apparently Maura wasn’t planning to drive anywhere – she was simply attending a party on campus that night. Why didn’t Fred just drop her off at Uni and keep the car himself? Unless the car was lent for another purpose, like an upcoming journey.

Is this somehow linked to the fact they were car shopping? Did both Fred and Maura know that Maura was planning a trip, and that she would need a car superior to her Saturn to make it? And when they didn’t buy a car, did Fred lend her his for the journey? Of course, the first crash scuppered that plan.

Fred came to visit on the Saturday, which would have been his very first opportunity after the upsetting phone call Maura took/made on the Thursday, which she suggested involved her sister. I wonder if that phone call was the first time Maura divulged something which prompted her father to make the journey that weekend?

Fred would've needed his rental car. He was living out of a hotel near Shelton Connecticut at the time he went to see Maura at UMASS.

Fred was on a contracted hospital job that he began in November of 2003.

I'm not sure what Fred did exactly at hospitals, but his job involved nuclear medicine. I believe he was a nuclear medicine tech.

Fred's hours at the hospital he was working at were M-F 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.

Family sources have provided this info. It is also been noted that fred would visit Maura regularly, often alternating weekends with the drive to Umass being something like two hours.

this is all info family "spokespeople" have provided, so who knows how truthful it is.

Speculation concerning that Saturday night includes the notion that maybe fred had too much to drink and needed Maura to drive him back to his hotel.

Maura definitely would not need a car to attend a dorm party (in her own dorm) or at a dorm within walking distance.

 

[BillNH]

Since there was a lull of several days without a post, I thought it was worth bringing up a discussion point.

Understood and I didn't mean to appear so dismissive of your comment. I'm just thinking that after 10 years, about 9 years of nothing new of substance, there isn't much left to discuss without a new, real, bit of information. With the topix thread and it's spinoff spam and sideline arguments gone, Renner clamming up prior to the release of his book, the discussion has gone as cold as Maura's case. Not knocking anyone for trying and I'm sure I will continue to make the rounds to see if any new info comes up. I will be interested in reading Renners book, no matter what his conclusion is.

 

[Melisinde]

So last night I just had a very random thought- a completely random thought. I used to read extensively about this case, but to be honest, have not kept on it in recent years, so I apologize if this has been covered before but... was the wine spilled everywhere an attempt to burn the car? I can only speculate as to Maura's frame of mind at the time and I would imagine someone else would attempt to burn the car before SHE would come up with it. I think, if someone was attempting to do this, they figured that it would take awhile for police to get there, so it could be accomplished before they did and something happened that interrupted the plan before it was actually set on fire. If it was Maura or a third party who attempted it, then I can't see why it would make a difference to the case if we even knew. Also, if someone were attempting to set the car on fire, it wouldn't necessarily lend support to either the tandem traveling theory or the foul play theory- whoever would want to do such a thing would do so because they wanted to destroy evidence. If it was a third party, the reason would be obvious for wanting to destroy evidence. If it was Maura, then it was because she wanted to walk away and obliterate one more part of her life.

I'm sure someone has thought of it before and it's maybe already been dismissed (it just POPPED into my head), but just thought I'd bring it up. It's probably a dumb idea and I don't even know what it would mean if that was the case.

 

[dogperson]

Slightly OT, but speaking of Renner's book, how many on this thread intend to purchase it? I very well may, but after it comes out in paperback, because money is tight.

 

[Lolacat]

Slightly OT, but speaking of Renner's book, how many on this thread intend to purchase it? I very well may, but after it comes out in paperback, because money is tight.

I probably will. I am very curious as to what led him to believe she may be in Quebec. I almost cant help myself - this case is just so frustrating and mind boggling that I just have to know. I have to know what happened to her. Even though I suspect noone ever will. The fact that yet ANOTHER woman has come forward in California and told a horrific tale of being held captive for 10 years means we shouldnt stop looking. This is partly why Fred's reluctance to talk baffles me- I mean, its highly unlikely that this is the case with Maura but even if there is a tiny 0.00001% chance you would think he would be glad that a book is drawing new interest/attention to the case.

 

[BillNH]

Slightly OT, but speaking of Renner's book, how many on this thread intend to purchase it? I very well may, but after it comes out in paperback, because money is tight.

I will eventually. It's not something I intend to snap up the minute it's available, but it is an intriguing story and it's local to where I live. I gave up any hope that JR was going to solve the mystery a long time ago but I am interested in seeing what I expect to be a organized narrative outlining the sequence of events in some sort of chronological order. There is so much to MM's life leading up to her disappearance, it's hard to get a grasp on how it all fits together.

 

[Ricochet]

I'll buy it the day it's released. I'm curious, and hoping information will be provided in the book that was held back from the blog. I'm not getting my hopes up about that though.

I suspect after everyone reads the book all the various theories will remain intact; some, like me, will think she died of hypothermia, some will think she was driving in tandem and created a new life for herself, and the rest will think she was met with foul play.

 

[Tssiemer]

If it ever gets released.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jerri Blank]

I'll buy it the day it's released. I'm curious, and hoping information will be provided in the book that was held back from the blog. I'm not getting my hopes up about that though.

I suspect after everyone reads the book all the various theories will remain intact; some, like me, will think she died of hypothermia, some will think she was driving in tandem and created a new life for herself, and the rest will think she was met with foul play.

one thing i wish i would see more of in this thread is the people who think she met with foul play, and even those who think she left to start a new life, suggesting UIDs that may be maura. I am not an avid follower here but i feel like i just about never see that.

i personally strongly lean toward her being in the mountains somewhere,and i think her remains will be found by accident some day and whomever gets that case will immediately look to maura as a possible ID. i feel there is an outlying possibility -extreme as it may be - that she met with foul play. if so, she ould have ended up anywhere...so i suppose i should follow my own advice and look more often for possible matches!

 

[Captain_Khan]

one thing i wish i would see more of in this thread is the people who think she met with foul play, and even those who think she left to start a new life, suggesting UIDs that may be maura. I am not an avid follower here but i feel like i just about never see that.

i personally strongly lean toward her being in the mountains somewhere,and i think her remains will be found by accident some day and whomever gets that case will immediately look to maura as a possible ID. i feel there is an outlying possibility -extreme as it may be - that she met with foul play. if so, she ould have ended up anywhere...so i suppose i should follow my own advice and look more often for possible matches!

Renner sometimes discusses potential people that could be Maura. I remember a while ago there was an initiative to review pictures of marathons in order to see if there was any potential match. I don't think that provided any leads.

I agree that her body is probably in the mountains - or possibly carried downstream if she somehow wound up somewhere along the banks/on the ice of the river.

I think sometimes it's a bit misleading to think "how likely is it that Maura met foul play after her accident?". It might be more beneficial to view it as "Maura has vanished without a trace - what is the chance she met foul play?". I personally feel that she did not meet foul play, but I think it's perhaps more likely than we tend to consider.

 

[JamesRenner]

Hiya everyone. Just a quick update. The Maura book is finished but was delayed until I could finish up my contract for a novel called The Great Forgetting. That novel was turned in yesterday will be released in 2015. All of which is to say I should have information about when the Maura book will be published by the end of summer. I'm personally hoping for February 2015. It's tentatively called The Missing and the Depraved and is about 350 pages long.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Hi,

I have a comment to make regarding the spider crack in the windshield. I'm sure that it has been raised before or considered already but i wanted to share an experience of my own:

One afternoon a few years ago, I was very distraught over some personal relationship crap and out of anger, I guess, I hurled my gps (a small square garmin) at the passenger seat. :ashamed: I had put enough force into it that it bounced up and caused a bad crack, which to me looked like a spider's web, in my windshield. :ashamed: I was just throwing it because I had so much anger and pain inside that I felt I had to externalize it somehow. I am in good shape, but I wouldn't have expected my little tantrum to cause such damage.

I'm sorry to intrude when this has probably been discussed (I am still reading).
I just thought it might be helpful when thinking about the spidering of Maura's windshield...not to suggest that she did exactly what I did per se, but just to say that the damage could've been caused by something that wasn't necessarily a key part of any accident or involving any injury to Maura. I don't know...just a thought. I'm sorry if I am rehashing needlessly.

 

[BillNH]

Hi,

I have a comment to make regarding the spider crack in the windshield. I'm sure that it has been raised before or considered already but i wanted to share an experience of my own:

One afternoon a few years ago, I was very distraught over some personal relationship crap and out of anger, I guess, I hurled my gps (a small square garmin) at the passenger seat. :ashamed: I had put enough force into it that it bounced up and caused a bad crack, which to me looked like a spider's web, in my windshield. :ashamed: I was just throwing it because I had so much anger and pain inside that I felt I had to externalize it somehow. I am in good shape, but I wouldn't have expected my little tantrum to cause such damage.

I'm sorry to intrude when this has probably been discussed (I am still reading).
I just thought it might be helpful when thinking about the spidering of Maura's windshield...not to suggest that she did exactly what I did per se, but just to say that the damage could've been caused by something that wasn't necessarily a key part of any accident or involving any injury to Maura. I don't know...just a thought. I'm sorry if I am rehashing needlessly.

There are some that point to the windshield crack as evidence she struck her head. I believe that particular type of spiderwebbing is caused as you describe, a pinpoint hit by something hard. While still possible I think it unlikely that the relative softness and flexibility of a human skull would cause such a spiderweb crack without a wider strike area. We only have the family's word that the crack was not there before the accident in Haverhill and they have yet to say much of anything that seems credible and factual.

 

[Fireweed]

Great to be back to the board! I loved reading all the new posts in past few weeks or so. Yeah, how about that crack? That crack never looked right to me. The only way a person could crack their head like that would be if they were not wearing a seat belt, and somehow managed to fly head first straight into the windshield while missing the steering wheel and the dash, in which case I would suspect that Maura would have been seriously injured (i.e. unable to stand up and have a coherent conversation with Atwood). I am with the theory that the crack was there before the crash, or was otherwise somehow created intentionally. It looks more like a crack that would occur from blunt force from the outside of the car.

Did something maybe fly off a car coming from the opposite direct, hitting Maura's car and causing the crash? Did someone purposefully vandalize Maura's car?

Again, think of the physics of that car accident. I just cannot picture a scenario where Maura goes flying above the steering column, hit her head causing the windshield to crack, and then manages to pretty much immediately walk away from the accident.

I maintain that the crack was caused by something that happened outside the car.

 

[BillNH]

Great to be back to the board! I loved reading all the new posts in past few weeks or so. Yeah, how about that crack? That crack never looked right to me. The only way a person could crack their head like that would be if they were not wearing a seat belt, and somehow managed to fly head first straight into the windshield while missing the steering wheel and the dash, in which case I would suspect that Maura would have been seriously injured (i.e. unable to stand up and have a coherent conversation with Atwood). I am with the theory that the crack was there before the crash, or was otherwise somehow created intentionally. It looks more like a crack that would occur from blunt force from the outside of the car.

Did something maybe fly off a car coming from the opposite direct, hitting Maura's car and causing the crash? Did someone purposefully vandalize Maura's car?

Again, think of the physics of that car accident. I just cannot picture a scenario where Maura goes flying above the steering column, hit her head causing the windshield to crack, and then manages to pretty much immediately walk away from the accident.

I maintain that the crack was caused by something that happened outside the car.

I thought the crack was "officially" determined to have originated from inside the car. I cannot supply a source for this but I had filed this in my mind as one of the few "facts" known about this case. Since I am generally skeptical about everything I have to believe it was from a credible source. For the record I do not list internet sleuths, authors or Maura's family as credible sources. I could be mistaken of course so if there is someone that can verify the origin of the crack as being inside or outside I would be grateful.

 

[Lolacat]

Did the car have airbags? I cant recall if it did or not. If it did, wouldnt that have meant it impossible for Maura to hit the windshield (with her head, I mean)?

 

[Fireweed]

I do not think that the airbags deployed. The crack just seems way too high up on the windshield and too far from the steering column to have been caused my Maura hitting her head. Now, do not get me wrong, that crack could have been cause by a person flying through the car and hitting their head, but we know that Maura almost immediately got out of the car, spoke to Atwood, gathered some of her things and took off on foot. I am not buying that someone could hit their head hard enough to cause a crack like that and still manage to walk away from the accident. Go out to your car and hit your hand as hard as you can on your windshield, and you will see that it will not crack, thus someone would have to hit their head with an incredible amount of force to cause a crack like that.

The only (reasonable) alternative is that some object flew threw the car during the accident and hit the windshield, but it simply could not have been Maura's head.

 

[BillNH]

I do not think that the airbags deployed. The crack just seems way too high up on the windshield and too far from the steering column to have been caused my Maura hitting her head. Now, do not get me wrong, that crack could have been cause by a person flying through the car and hitting their head, but we know that Maura almost immediately got out of the car, spoke to Atwood, gathered some of her things and took off on foot. I am not buying that someone could hit their head hard enough to cause a crack like that and still manage to walk away from the accident. Go out to your car and hit your hand as hard as you can on your windshield, and you will see that it will not crack, thus someone would have to hit their head with an incredible amount of force to cause a crack like that.

The only (reasonable) alternative is that some object flew threw the car during the accident and hit the windshield, but it simply could not have been Maura's head.

The car had dual front airbags and both had deployed. The design was early generation airbags and both airbags were designed to deploy regardless of whether there was a person in the passenger seat. Newer vehicles have a pressure switch that does not deploy the passenger airbag unless there is weight in the passenger seat. The Saturn did not have this switch, both deployed as intended by the manufacturer.

 

[BillNH]

Did the car have airbags? I cant recall if it did or not. If it did, wouldnt that have meant it impossible for Maura to hit the windshield (with her head, I mean)?

In some vehicles the design of the dash/windshield/driver seat does make this possible. I think the 2014 dodge dart shows this can happen. I could never find a CTD video for Maura's Saturn that showed it as possible.