NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[EmiLove832]

I wonder if we will ever find out what Maura's two friends are keeping a secret. I feel Fred, Sarah and Kate know why Maura left.

I just can't figure out why they won't say what happened after all of these years unless they know where she is and that she is ok.


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[Fireweed]

I don't find anything compelling to point towards there not having been a "get together" that Saturday night.

The "party" over the years (depending on who has reported about it) has been described as a few friends getting together, it has never been described as a big campus wide party. That's the first point.

As far as the dorm situation goes, family spokespeople over the years have consistently stated that the get together was not in Maura's dorm but one nearby and the dorm that Sarah Alfieri lived in (girl who hosted the get-together that night) indeed lived in a dorm right next to Maura's.

So at some point, the wording in one of the news reports got a little sloppy.

But the information has really not changed over the years about the get-together between a handful of people.

So, no big revelation discovered, IMO.

Then that proves my point even more. If it was a small get together, then surely Kate and Sarah would recall everyone who was there. Still, after ten years all those people magically vanish. No one that was there has come forward. Kate and Sarah have both magically lost all memory of a weekend, that, due to the circumstances, should be burned in their minds forever. Again, where the heck are the people from this "get together?" How is that possible that none of them seemingly exist?

 

[Tssiemer]

Maybe maura got drunk, did something wrong and her friends are protecting her


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[Fireweed]

Maybe maura got drunk, did something wrong and her friends are protecting her


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You know, I have thought about that quite a lot. My problem is that I can see a 21-year-old college student protecting a friend (still having an immature mind), but I having a hard time wrapping my head around someone keeping up with it 10 years later. I mean, Kate and Sarah are college-educated people, so surely they are intelligent enough to understand that lots of money and years' worth of peoples' time has gone into looking for Maura. People have been asked to take polygraph's, people's homes and properties have been searched, and countless people have gone looking for Maura in the White Mountains (i.e. people could have actually died looking for her). At what point would these people run a risk-utility analysis in their brains and decide that maybe, just maybe, protecting Maura's "secret" is not worth all this? Like I said, I can see an immature young woman (still a kid really), making that decision, but I am having a really hard time understanding how a grown woman 10 years later could still make the exact decision. Either Kate and Sarah both have extremely low character, the "secret" in question affects them to, or the "secret" is just so horrible that they consider all this worth it.

 

[Vox_Veritas_JT]

Alcohol just seems to crop up again and again in this case it seems to me. Its the last thing Maura takes with her before she vanishes (and the amount is of course notable) and is the cause of her last accident and likely contributed to the accident in her Fathers car.

We know Fred drinks and sometimes to excess from diligent research, I do feel as if he is not providing full disclosure. And some parts of his story remain in mystery. And now we have a situation where the dorm party seems foggy and vague - again a situation involving alcohol. It would help if the friends would provide full disclosure. Perhaps all involved are trying to obscure the amount of alcohol Maura used? Perhaps they are trying to obscure how much alcohol they used? I think you would have to go pretty far out on a limb to think any of this implies guilt or involvement in her disappearance but we are past the point of saving reputations; its pretty much irrelevant.

Alcohol, the ultimate depressant, just crops up again and again. Perhaps the answer really is at the bottom of the bottle. Or perhaps alcohol was directly involved in whatever conspired to make Maura vanish, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[scoops]

Then that proves my point even more. If it was a small get together, then surely Kate and Sarah would recall everyone who was there. Still, after ten years all those people magically vanish. No one that was there has come forward. Kate and Sarah have both magically lost all memory of a weekend, that, due to the circumstances, should be burned in their minds forever. Again, where the heck are the people from this "get together?" How is that possible that none of them seemingly exist?

Judging from the accounts, I highly doubt that there would be much to recall.

The get-together was late in the night, and was described by the person hosting it as "a few friends drinking into the late hours" so everyone there (in all probability) had already had plenty to drink before the get-together even took place.

A handful of people were passed out literally and Maura was rambling periodically throughout that she needed to take her father's car back to him.

Hardly an event that would lead to many memories (IMO).

If the girl who hosted the get-together in her dorm room says that she doesn't recall many of the details, it might be because she was one of the people passed out not long after the get-together started (She was passed out at 1 a.m.) Maura didn't leave until 2:30 a.m.

 

[Fireweed]

Judging from the accounts, I highly doubt that there would be much to recall.

The get-together was late in the night, and was described by the person hosting it as "a few friends drinking into the late hours" so everyone there (in all probability) had already had plenty to drink before the get-together even took place.

A handful of people were passed out literally and Maura was rambling periodically throughout that she needed to take her father's car back to him.

Hardly an event that would lead to many memories (IMO).

If the girl who hosted the get-together in her dorm room says that she doesn't recall many of the details, it might be because she was one of the people passed out not long after the get-together started (She was passed out at 1 a.m.) Maura didn't leave until 2:30 a.m.

If the host recalls that Maura was there (even though she was passed out), then why would she not recall any other person that was there? The whole thing is fishy to me.

BTW, I have mentioned here before that I am a recovering alcoholic. I have personally experienced every stage of drunkeness many times. Unless the host was in a blackout, along with every other person there, then there should be plenty of memories floating around regarding this party. A drunk person still remembers things (unless in a blackout, which is rare), then just do not remember things quite as well as a sober person.

 

[scoops]

If the host recalls that Maura was there (even though she was passed out), then why would she not recall any other person that was there? The whole thing is fishy to me.

BTW, I have mentioned here before that I am a recovering alcoholic. I have personally experienced every stage of drunkeness many times. Unless the host was in a blackout, along with every other person there, then there should be plenty of memories floating around regarding this party. A drunk person still remembers things (unless in a blackout, which is rare), then just do not remember things quite as well as a sober person.

But, what is there to recall?

A few friends drinking is not a rare event, nor a memorable one if one is getting sloppy drunk to where they are passing out an hour after it starts.

And why make-up the part about Maura rambling on about wanting to take her father's car back to him, that seems like an unnecessary add-on to a made-up story if there was no dorm "get-together".

Conspiracies are neat, but I don't see what this Saturday night get-together is suppose to accomplish when it relates to finding out what Maura did that Monday night in New Hampshire.

Maura's friends were likely drinking just like Maura was that night and IMO, may feel some guilt now because they weren't more alert to something being wrong with Maura.

 

[Fireweed]

But, what is there to recall?

A few friends drinking is not a rare event, nor a memorable one if one is getting sloppy drunk to where they are passing out an hour after it starts.

And why make-up the part about Maura rambling on about wanting to take her father's car back to him, that seems like an unnecessary add-on to a made-up story if there was no dorm "get-together".

Conspiracies are neat, but I don't see what this Saturday night get-together is suppose to accomplish when it relates to finding out what Maura did that Monday night in New Hampshire.

Maura's friends were likely drinking just like Maura was that night and IMO, may feel some guilt now because they weren't more alert to something being wrong with Maura.

That is the problem though. Because we have not been told the truth of that weekend, we do not know how it relates to finding out what happened to Maura that Monday. That weekend may or may not have something to do with Maura's disappearance, but when the main witnesses to that weekend are lying, it is impossible for anyone to discern whether it has a connection to the disappearance of Maura.

A few friends getting drunk is not a memorable event, but a few friends getting together and then having one of them vanish off the face of the planet two days later is indeed a very memorable event. They were close enough in time that they would be linked in people's minds because that night of drinking was the last time any of those people saw Maura alive.

 

[scoops]

That is the problem though. Because we have not been told the truth of that weekend, we do not know how it relates to finding out what happened to Maura that Monday. That weekend may or may not have something to do with Maura's disappearance, but when the main witnesses to that weekend are lying, it is impossible for anyone to discern whether it has a connection to the disappearance of Maura.

A few friends getting drunk is not a memorable event, but a few friends getting together and then having one of them vanish off the face of the planet two days later is indeed a very memorable event. They were close enough in time that they would be linked in people's minds because that night of drinking was the last time any of those people saw Maura alive.

The person that hosted the get-together saw Maura on Sunday.

In fact, Maura failed to mention to Sarah that she had wrecked her father's car the night before.

Maura and Sarah worked together at an art gallery (not sure if that is where they ran into each other on Sunday) but the two at minimum talked on Sunday and likely saw each other

Maura knew kate from athletics and Maura knew sarah from being a co-worker.

Imo, these weren't super close friends, especially kate and sarah, so they would definitely being going to great links some 10 years later co-conspiring about a Saturday night get-together that never took place.

 

[Jane Birch]

Thank you ManyandFew. Actually some of the these you are talking about are not obvious to everyone. I agree that $8,000 always sounded like a lot in terms of damage.

Meh. I can tell you from first hand experience that someone cracking the back bumper
of a 2003 Pontiac by rearending you at low speed will make them need to replace the entire rear bumper, and it'll cost you $6000. So if she busted the front bumper and the quarter panel, I can see $8000 not being out if the question for replacing them rather than repair.

 

[Jane Birch]

I always took it literally. It is figurative when you are describing a person, i.e. "my brain is not firing on all four cylinders today".

At any rate, the car was fine. It made it up to Haverhill without incident.

At least, we assume it did. It got there, at any rate--but we don't know she didn't have trouble with it. There is some missing time, isn't there? Maybe she had to goose it up there, drove slowly, whatever. Who knows.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I touched on something earlier and wanted to expand on it, if possible.

Why was Maura in possession of her Father’s car at the time of her first accident?

Fred comes to Maura’s university with the intention of buying a new car with her (supposedly). He stays the night in a local hotel, lending Maura his car – despite the fact that he had to drive back home the next day.

Why? To me, this seems very strange. Apparently Maura wasn’t planning to drive anywhere – she was simply attending a party on campus that night. Why didn’t Fred just drop her off at Uni and keep the car himself? Unless the car was lent for another purpose, like an upcoming journey.

Is this somehow linked to the fact they were car shopping? Did both Fred and Maura know that Maura was planning a trip, and that she would need a car superior to her Saturn to make it? And when they didn’t buy a car, did Fred lend her his for the journey? Of course, the first crash scuppered that plan.

Fred came to visit on the Saturday, which would have been his very first opportunity after the upsetting phone call Maura took/made on the Thursday, which she suggested involved her sister. I wonder if that phone call was the first time Maura divulged something which prompted her father to make the journey that weekend?

In an affidavit of the accident, Fred said that he was tired, and the girls wanted to go to another bar or store before they went back to the dorm, so he loaned her the car and had them drop him off.

I think there were other reasons for Fred to be there that he has continued to refuse to share. I think that he believes the real reason will make Maura look bad, and not contribute to finding her. FM blames a lot of people for the lack of progress in Maura's case, but I think he need not look any further than his bathroom mirror to see who has slowed progress the most.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Statement Analysis is an amazing tool. I've read this before, and it just cemented my belief that FM is hiding things. He may be doing so with good intentions, but I have yet to analyze a statement from him that doesn't indicate sensitivity or deception.

 

[KenShabby]

Meh. I can tell you from first hand experience that someone cracking the back bumper
of a 2003 Pontiac by rearending you at low speed will make them need to replace the entire rear bumper, and it'll cost you $6000. So if she busted the front bumper and the quarter panel, I can see $8000 not being out if the question for replacing them rather than repair.

Some perspective. I owned a 1995 Saturn — essentially the same model and vintage as Maura's. (Purchased it used in 1998 and it ran until 2011.) In the many years that I owned it, the car experienced two fender benders — in a manner of speaking. Keep in mind — those Saturns were not Pontiacs; Saturns were made of plastic.

The first accident we had with the car resulted in a crack to the front bumper. A crack. The car that hit us (hard enough to spin my car about 90 degrees) was more substantially damaged. My insurance company assessed the damage to my Saturn at around $700.

Many year's later, a car bumped my Saturn from the rear. The other person's vehicle wound up with a dented fender. My Saturn's plastic rear bumper showed hardly a scratch.

 

[dogperson]

I think something really big was going on in Maura's life, and it could be that Fred honestly believes her disappearance is not related to whatever trouble she was in or problems she was having. But whatever the big thing was, it's something he didn't want the public to know about. It could be something that would forever damage her reputation and taint her memory in such a way that he can't stand the thought of that happening. It could be something that he feels would lead LE far down the wrong path and keep them from looking for the true answers or looking for a suspect in her abduction. I still tend to think the planned purchase of a car is a cover story for something else. If her car was so unreliable, why would her dad not loan her his car and take her car home with him? My late father would never have let me drive around in an unreliable car for fear I would have a breakdown beside the road or be in an accident. If I had a daughter away at school I would far rather have her driving my own nice car than worry about her traveling in one that might break down. And why would Maura take off on a long drive, at night, with snow on the ground, in a car possibly incapable of making the trip? It just makes more sense to me that the $4,000 was intended for something else and the planned purchase of another car was a story used to explain the withdrawal of that much money.

 

[Lolacat]

Fred's reactions speak volumes to me. I think he knows that she was in trouble of some kind. I think this because:

1. His FIRST reaction to her going missing was to tell police she might want to harm herself
2. He later appealed directly to Maura saying that no matter what kind of trouble she thinks she might be in, they can work it out together (paraphrasing).
3. Despite the two points above, he then claims that the days prior to her missing "do not matter".

 

[KenShabby]

Folks, please disregard my post 575. I misunderstood the subject of the post I was commenting on.

 

[Lolacat]

I'm not sure what to make of JR's recent blog posts. If true, Maura was FAR more troubled than I ever realised. It would certainly explain why there appears to be a conspiracy of silence around the *party*. It also opens up a whole load of other possibilities.

 

[Jerri Blank]

ETA: this is in reply to this post by Vox_Veritas_JT, which didn't quote for some reason.

Alcohol just seems to crop up again and again in this case it seems to me. Its the last thing Maura takes with her before she vanishes (and the amount is of course notable) and is the cause of her last accident and likely contributed to the accident in her Fathers car.

We know Fred drinks and sometimes to excess from diligent research, I do feel as if he is not providing full disclosure. And some parts of his story remain in mystery. And now we have a situation where the dorm party seems foggy and vague - again a situation involving alcohol. It would help if the friends would provide full disclosure. Perhaps all involved are trying to obscure the amount of alcohol Maura used? Perhaps they are trying to obscure how much alcohol they used? I think you would have to go pretty far out on a limb to think any of this implies guilt or involvement in her disappearance but we are past the point of saving reputations; its pretty much irrelevant.

Alcohol, the ultimate depressant, just crops up again and again. Perhaps the answer really is at the bottom of the bottle. Or perhaps alcohol was directly involved in whatever conspired to make Maura vanish, it wouldn't surprise me

.

i hate to keep harping on this fact, but every time i check in here i see someone talking bout how much alcohol maura had with her, and then this post suggest alcohol was abused at this party... and of course there was a ton of alcohol consumed at this party, most likely by each person in attendance. the residential area where the dorm party was held was known as the party area. and they were in college. i regularly saw people get drunk past the point of functioning there. is it a great idea? no, but that is the common college experience for many. and i have to reiterate, at 21, the amount of alcohol maura had with her was not really a lot. especially if she was planning to stay in a condo for a few days. most kids who "partied" (drank etc) at UMass when we went there could have easily consumed that much in the course of a day.

i am not arguing that she didn't have a problem, i have no way of knowing that, just that the known facts we have - that she went to a liquor store on her way out of town and that she drank at a college party - don't raise any red flags if put in context.