NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

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I do not subscribe to a suicide theory. There is no more evidence of a suicide than of any other possibility. I do not believe that Maura was suicidal, as I have seen no compelling evidence to suggest such. There were no tracks into the snow. If Maura died as a result of exposure, why has there been no trace of her body or belongings? You can't bury yourself. If Maura died in this manner, her body would have been relatively easy to spot on the various searches conducted both by LE and by Fred Murray himself in the subsequent years, but yet nothing. If Maura did indeed died from exposure, it would have been outside of the search radius, and therefore would suggest that she was attempting to reach a destination before succumbing to the elements. If suicide was Maura's sole intention, then why run off quite a distance to do the job, she could have done the job a half mile up the road.

There is no evidence that Maura was depressed. None of her friends have ever indicated the possibility of suicide. In fact Maura's friends have stonewalled the investigation by refusing to answer pertinent questions in the same manner as Fred Murray. This would suggest that there is something deeper to the Maura story known only by those closest to her. I know of no suicide case that I have investigated where there is no history of depression, hospitalization, erratic or bizarre behavior, drug use, professional counseling, etc. Maura had no history of these things.

The narrative that Maura packed her dorm room prior to her departure from UMASS is invalid. It is unknown as to whether Maura packed her room or simply hadn't yet unpacked upon returning to campus from break. You cannot use that as fodder for your suicide theory. I find it more likely that due to her schedule with nursing school and personal life, she hadn't had the time to unpack. Perhaps initially Maura planned to unpack on Saturday, February 7, but Fred arriving changed those plans. That is pure speculation however.

As far as the second MVA changing Maura's plans, it obviously did so, but I don't share the idea that it accelerated her suicide. That night was bright, and the temperatures were hovering around the freezing point (mild for that time of the year in the Haverhill area), and Maura had a history of preferring to run in cold, adverse conditions. It wouldn't have been a stretch. Maura was unfamiliar with that section of 112, but she had traveled many times on the eastern portion of 112 - to the east of I-93. Maura's ultimate destination remains a mystery, but she would have been physically capable of covering the distance to the next large town, which was right near I-93. There was a credible witness that spotted someone that matched Maura's description running along 112 near the 116 intersection. What would have been Maura's intent to run that distance if she simply desired to commit suicide?

As far as why Maura took the alcohol with her, likely it would have been to get it away from the crash scene. She left with it so to not add fuel to the fire of a possible DUI. If Maura could sober up a bit before claiming the car, she could have explained the spilled wine away fairly easily. Again, Maura did not buy alcohol that would lead to quick intoxication. She bought liqueurs used to make mixed drinks. Does that make sense for someone wanting to commit suicide?

I have delved into this case fairly deeply and I just need more evidence, real evidence, to subscribe to a suicide theory. You may claim that Maura's actions prior to the disappearance to be indicative of suicide, but what about afterward? Where is the body? It should have been within the area of searches performed by LE and Fred Murray. Where is the backpack or bottles of alcohol? Where are Maura's clothes? There would have been evidence recovered by someone.

Those are some very well-thought out posts.


The lack of evidence of a body all these years later doesn't sway me to believe a suicide didn't happen.

Maura went missing in the wilderness known as the White Mountains. All legit searches for her have been done within a close radius of where her car wreck was. That has been a very slim search area covered. Maura could literally have made it to just about anywhere in the park.

The way you are describing how you envision she would've taken her own life (if you had believed the suicide theory) is not how I think it would've went down at all. Afterall, if all she wanted to do was take her own life, she could've saved herself a lot of time and trouble and just taken her life inside her dorm room.

I think she was enamored by the stories in that Not Without Peril Book. I think she liked reading about the survival efforts that dare devil hikers attempted during such brutal weather and overall conditions in the mountains, that I believe Maura wanted to go out with a bang and have one final ultimate adventure.

That is why I think she left late in the afternoon and arrived to the mountains at night. I think she was planning on a early morning (ill-advised alone hike). I suspect she would've mixed her favorite drinks (during the night) in a hotel room as she possibly wrote out some sort of good-bye or suicide letter.

I think (Just guessing on this one) that the Tylenol PM was something she would've taken along with the mixture of alcohol to help restrict her muscle function once she found a final spot (in the mountains) that she would've picked some time on Tuesday and drank herself to death.

Obviously, the wreck Monday night, likely disrupted her plans.


As far as her calling the condo, I contend (just speculation) that the condo was in the area that she actually wanted to go, and she may have called the condo (not to reserve a room) but to get a feel for how active the area was at that time.

I think she would've been smart enough to know to just get a hotel instead of a condo for one night.


I think she had some sort of desire/urge/itch to tackle the white mountains (that had been building up as a hiker enthusiast) and maybe the every day circumstances going on in her life caused her to just throw her hands up and say screw it all, I'm heading for the mountains.

While this is not 100 percent fact, among the clothing Maura did have packed was a black sweater and some gray sweat pants, the very same outfit she wore just a few months earlier while hiking with her father as they tackled several 4,000 footers.

What stands out to me the most, is that Maura had directions to Burlington (VT) and as we all know she ended up at the entrance of the White Mountains.

While those two locations are not so close to one another, Maura and her father had just been to both of those locations in October (four months prior to Maura going missing) hiking different mountains. And during those October hikes, once again Maura was wearing the same outfit that can be seen in the picture of Maura's sister clutching Maura's extra pair of gym shoes that were found in Maura's car after Maura had gone missing.
 
NH LE officially stated during the Supreme Court fight for documents and files pertaining to the disappearance of Maura Murray by Fred Murray that they were within 75% of making an arrest in this case. It seems as though NH LE has some evidence to suggest foul play and/or something different from a suicide. Furthermore NH LE has stated that as a result of the investigations into the disappearance of Maura Murray, they uncovered evidence that has resulted in new cases being opened for burglary, criminal mischief, and drugs. This case seems to be deeper than an open and shut suicide.
 
can you link the specific quotes for that, or at least a link to where you can find them? I have heard the 75% figure given, but was not sure where it came from specifically. I do find that interesting, and like I said, I simply believe suicide is the most likely scenario, based on the evidence given. I do find other theories possible. While I find it extremely unlikely that MM accepted a ride from a stranger to make it to her final suicide/vacation destination and ended up meeting foul play en route, stranger things have happened, so it can't be ruled out, and could be introduced w.o. introducing new hypotheticals. As for the police uncovering evidence that has resulted in new cases being opened, those cases could be entirely unrelated to MM. While I don't have the context of the court documents, its not unheard of for police to uncover evidence during a criminal investigation which leads them to other crimes unrelated to the crime being investigated in the first place. For example, someone calls in an anonymous tip implicating John Doe in MM's disappearance, or suggesting John Doe is involved, police go to investigate John Doe and find drugs out in plain view. There's a crime being committed unrelated to MM, but which wouldn't have been discovered had there not been a tip leading them there. Or they find stolen goods. In a lot of missing persons cases, sex offenders in the area are the first investigated- that can lead to new cases being opened, if it is found these offenders being checked up on are committing different crimes.

Again, not trying to discredit because I haven't read the actual documents and don't have the actual context. What do you believe happened if she didn't commit suicide, or what do you believe most likely to have happened?
 
NH LE officially stated during the Supreme Court fight for documents and files pertaining to the disappearance of Maura Murray by Fred Murray that they were within 75% of making an arrest in this case. It seems as though NH LE has some evidence to suggest foul play and/or something different from a suicide. Furthermore NH LE has stated that as a result of the investigations into the disappearance of Maura Murray, they uncovered evidence that has resulted in new cases being opened for burglary, criminal mischief, and drugs. This case seems to be deeper than an open and shut suicide.
You can find the info in the document section of Renner's blog. Strelzin said that the investigation was likely to lead to criminal charges and when pressed for a % of likelihood he said 75%. He did not say that it would lead to criminal charges in her disappearance. Just criminal charges. And this was just after he stated that the investigation had led to evidence of other crimes. It was in no way a clear statement that the charges were in relation to her disappearance.
 
NH LE officially stated during the Supreme Court fight for documents and files pertaining to the disappearance of Maura Murray by Fred Murray that they were within 75% of making an arrest in this case. It seems as though NH LE has some evidence to suggest foul play and/or something different from a suicide. Furthermore NH LE has stated that as a result of the investigations into the disappearance of Maura Murray, they uncovered evidence that has resulted in new cases being opened for burglary, criminal mischief, and drugs. This case seems to be deeper than an open and shut suicide.

Police/investigators assigned to Maura's case, have been very consistent and public over the years to note that they have no evidence of foul play.

what happened in court was a whole separate issue.

In weighing whether or not to release all pertinent investigation info over to fred and Maura's family, the panel of judges had to determine if there really was a true investigation going on at all.

They (the panel) was getting frustrated with the AAG and his staff because every answer they gave about the case when asked in court was "We can't comment, because it might impede the investigation."

The AAG and his staff actually got yelled at for conveniently hiding behind the standard "No comment" answers they were giving leading to the panel wondering whether or not there ever was going to be a timeframe when real answers would be given. It was next to impossible for the panel to try and decide whether or not they should release investigative info over to fred and Maura's family when they themselves were getting told no comment about what was going on with the investigation.

Eventually, the AAG himself was put on the spot in court to give a percentage of criminal charges and as Fred describes, Strezlin looked down and blurted out 75 perecent like he was pulling it out of his behind just to satisfy the court.
 
Scoops, what evidence do you have to this effect?

Scoops has no evidence to that statement. By all accounts Maura did have at least a few days worth of clothing packed for her excursion. That, among other things, do not jive well with Scoops' theory of suicide.

Strelzin is evidently confident that an arrest will be made in the Maura Murray case.
 
Scoops has no evidence to that statement. By all accounts Maura did have at least a few days worth of clothing packed for her excursion. That, among other things, do not jive well with Scoops' theory of suicide.

Strelzin is evidently confident that an arrest will be made in the Maura Murray case.

BBM

I dont get that at all from the court documents or public statements. I recall one of Strelzins most recent interviews where he states that they have no idea what happened to Maura Murray. That is not the statement of a man confident an arrest is forthcoming.
 
Well then Strelzin gives conflicting accounts. You can't go from 75% certainty to nil. As AG, he should be very concise in his statements in court and in interviews, so he possibly may be another that can be added to the "little credibility" list. Is this the norm for LE and the courts in NH? Seems like there are issues there.
 
Scoops has no evidence to that statement. By all accounts Maura did have at least a few days worth of clothing packed for her excursion. That, among other things, do not jive well with Scoops' theory of suicide.

Strelzin is evidently confident that an arrest will be made in the Maura Murray case.

It doesn't take a genius to come to the conclusion that a medium-size gym bag is not going to hold a week's worth of clothing in it.

You can see Maura's bag right behind her sister in the below-linked photo. The bag is nearly empty in the picture (undergarments remained in the bag from what I was told) and you see what equates to one outfit sitting in front of Maura's sister on the floor. That outfit, coincidentally enough is very similar to the outfit Maura is wearing in the photo posed with her dad at a recent hike they had gone on. (See the second link for that photo).

The photo with Maura's sister clutching the gym shoe was taken in a motel. the other bag seen in the photo was not Maura's but Kathleen's.



http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-was-in-mauras-car.html


http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/01/28/maura-murray/2/
 
It doesn't take a genius to come to the conclusion that a medium-size gym bag is not going to hold a week's worth of clothing in it.

I disagree. If you're wearing fresh clothes, all you'd need would be a fresh pair of jeans and a teeshirt or two, and you're sorted for at least four days. Maura was a hiker - packing light and/or wearing yesterday's clothes would have been second nature when required. I regularly go away for several nights at a time and do this.
 
It doesn't take a genius to come to the conclusion that a medium-size gym bag is not going to hold a week's worth of clothing in it.

You can see Maura's bag right behind her sister in the below-linked photo. The bag is nearly empty in the picture (undergarments remained in the bag from what I was told) and you see what equates to one outfit sitting in front of Maura's sister on the floor. That outfit, coincidentally enough is very similar to the outfit Maura is wearing in the photo posed with her dad at a recent hike they had gone on. (See the second link for that photo).

The photo with Maura's sister clutching the gym shoe was taken in a motel. the other bag seen in the photo was not Maura's but Kathleen's.



http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-was-in-mauras-car.html


http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/01/28/maura-murray/2/

this, like everything else about this case, is a matter of personal opinion... i am a chronic over-packer and i could certainly fit a week's worth of clothing in a bag that size if i wanted to. it doesn't say to me that she killed herself or that she ran away forever or that she was/wasn't meeting some other person a ong the way.... all it says is that that particular duffle bag was what she had handy and she brought it in her car.
 
this, like everything else about this case, is a matter of personal opinion... i am a chronic over-packer and i could certainly fit a week's worth of clothing in a bag that size if i wanted to. it doesn't say to me that she killed herself or that she ran away forever or that she was/wasn't meeting some other person a ong the way.... all it says is that that particular duffle bag was what she had handy and she brought it in her car.

You are actually missing the point and making my point at the same time.

A suicide theory doesn't and has never hinged upon how many clothes Maura had packed. I do think it would help further debunk some other theories out there, such as Maura was starting over with a new life, but that is an opinion.

I personally brought up the packed bag, because it was family and family spokespeople who have come out publically and stated that Maura had a week's worth of clothing packed.

I was pointing out that they were (at best) spinning the truth to fit their own narrative. Afterall, as you so very clearly pointed out, how can anyone look at a bag's size and determine just how many days of clothing a person had packed.

In my opinion, you can't pack a "full weeks worth" of clothing into that average size gym bag, but my skepticism is more directed at the family coming out and being certain that she had a full weeks worth of clothing packed (how would they know, they didn't even know Maura was leaving her school campus). They are as you point out "just guessing." The only difference is that they truly do know what Maura had packed and if indeed Maura had just one outfit packed and some gym clothes and they are going out publically stating that she had a week's worth of clothing pack to help defend against a suicide theory, then that would fall under the category of being very misleading to basically lying.

I find it very interesting that they have never publically gone over just what exactly Maura had packed since it has been in dispute for all of these years.

They would know the answers to not just what Maura packed, but also, what was on her computer and yet family has kept very quiet about those things.

If you are truly searching for answers and you are going public for their help, you should be forthcoming about what are known FACTS and not hold things back because they may not fit your narrative that you are trying to portray to the public.
 
In my opinion, you can't pack a "full weeks worth" of clothing into that average size gym bag, but my skepticism is more directed at the family coming out and being certain that she had a full weeks worth of clothing packed (how would they know, they didn't even know Maura was leaving her school campus).

Her family would be the most capable of knowing whether she was a light or heavy packer, and what a 'week's worth of clothing' would look like to her. Since Maura went away with them in the past, they would be in the best position to state "that looks like what Maura would pack for a week away".
 
Her family would be the most capable of knowing whether she was a light or heavy packer, and what a 'week's worth of clothing' would look like to her. Since Maura went away with them in the past, they would be in the best position to state "that looks like what Maura would pack for a week away".

Too many credibility issues to just take their word on things.

Many issues that have been in dispute (all these years) by investigators and the public concerning this case, already have answers to them and could easily be factually corrected by family/family spokespeople.

A. The Dorm Room and how it was really left
B. The computer and what was really discovered on it
C. The book Not Without Peril and why Maura really had it with her
D. The rag in the tailpipe
E. The contents of Maura's bag and car that were left at the scene of her second accident

Police have gone on record to talk about many of these issues and have been called liars by the family

The million dollar question is why haven't family and family spokespeople corrected any of the lies, when all along they have had the ability to do so (if police were indeed lying)?

calling someone a liar for a newspaper article is not correcting them.
 
I was reading the Boston Magazine article from earlier this year and the damage amount on the vehicle vs the picture of the vehicle did not add up. I work in auto insurance claims and review estimates and photos on a daily basis as part of my job. I'm not buying 10,000 dollars in damage on an 8 year old Saturn based on the photographs. I've seen 8-10k mentioned as damage on the car before. Where did this number come from? Fred Murray? Or did a professional look at the vehicle? I guess there is a remote possibility if there was a ton of hidden damage that it might be that much but based on the age of the car I am not seeing it.
 
I was reading the Boston Magazine article from earlier this year and the damage amount on the vehicle vs the picture of the vehicle did not add up. I work in auto insurance claims and review estimates and photos on a daily basis as part of my job. I'm not buying 10,000 dollars in damage on an 8 year old Saturn based on the photographs. I've seen 8-10k mentioned as damage on the car before. Where did this number come from? Fred Murray? Or did a professional look at the vehicle? I guess there is a remote possibility if there was a ton of hidden damage that it might be that much but based on the age of the car I am not seeing it.
The damage quote was for Fred's new Toyota from the Sunday morning accident not the Saturn accident on Monday night.
 
Hello all,
I'm new to posting here, I've been a lurker for a long time. A few thoughts here do we have an answer where the $4k went from Fred that week? Also, I get the impression that Maura was a strong young woman and would have had enough training about mental illness to recognize signs from her nursing courses. That's my gut feeling especially considering her secretiveness. She seems like she may have had a stoic personality (I'm not a professional and don't mean to come off as one :). The money she spent at the liquor store tells me she is either really impulsive in that moment or she had more money than we traditionally thought.
 
Hello all,
I'm new to posting here, I've been a lurker for a long time. A few thoughts here do we have an answer where the $4k went from Fred that week? Also, I get the impression that Maura was a strong young woman and would have had enough training about mental illness to recognize signs from her nursing courses. That's my gut feeling especially considering her secretiveness. She seems like she may have had a stoic personality (I'm not a professional and don't mean to come off as one :). The money she spent at the liquor store tells me she is either really impulsive in that moment or she had more money than we traditionally thought.

Welcome :)

The 4K is something that all of us are extremely curious about. Something about it certainly doesnt add up.
I really dont know if Maura was suffering from any kind of specific mental illness, but studying it certainly does not make you immune to it. We only have to look at the very sad case of Teleka Patrick to see that. Depression affects all kinds of people, regardless of career. I personally know of a few people who work within the mental health field and have had mental breakdowns, so sadly, it happens. Going purely on Maura's actions I would say that Maura was behaving in an extremely chaotic manner in the days before she disappeared. Two car accidents in the space of 2 days, drinking, telling her boyfriend she didnt feel like talking to anyone, taking off without telling a soul- seems like someone going through something pretty emotional to me.
 
I wonder if maybe she could have looked at treatment centers. I know about her family from reading they seem like they would not even want to consider a mental illness. It seems like something FM if he knew would want under the rug and of course the $4k could cover. With all these things that happened I couldn't see her not considering it as a possibility especially seeing as how she felt she needed to get away from everything and told no one. Mental Illness is not something I like to label people with but in this case I feel that she was at least depressed based purely on her actions and comparing that to the criteria for a dx (again not a professional). Just wondering if that was the original plan seeing as how she lied about why she was going to be gone a week- and the typical stay at a facility is a week. Just my thoughts
 
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