NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[ZooSleuth]

The crack could have been something like a watch or bracelet hitting the glass. She probably could tell that the wreck imminent at some point and might have grabbed for the ceiling. If she wasn't wearing her seatbelt, there's a lot of ways I could see the crack happening even with the airbags deployed.

 

[Tssiemer]

How do we know Maura did not have a passenger in the car?


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[BillNH]

How do we know Maura did not have a passenger in the car?


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We don't know that she didn't have a passenger but the passenger airbag deploying is not proof that she did. That was my only reason for pointing out the airbag mechanics. There was the mysterious red light that a witness thought was the tip of a cigarette in the front passenger seat, and then there is the alleged empty beer bottle in the back seat, both tending to lead people to believe she had a passenger. No one actually saw a second person even though many saw one at the scene and the passenger would have had to disappear even faster than Maura did. To me just seems to make it unlikely there was a passenger, although nothing is impossible.

 

[BillNH]

The crack could have been something like a watch or bracelet hitting the glass. She probably could tell that the wreck imminent at some point and might have grabbed for the ceiling. If she wasn't wearing her seatbelt, there's a lot of ways I could see the crack happening even with the airbags deployed.

I always had a suspicion that the crack was caused by the ridge of the cap/top of the alcohol filled soda bottle. Imagine that being in her left hand between the steering wheel and the windshield with the wrist of that hand resting on top of the steering wheel, like many people drive, at the time of impact. The crash/airbag deployment would have shot her arm/hand/soda bottle right up into the windshield and provided the small contact area with a hard object that could cause that crack. This also lends itself nicely to the splashing of red liquid on the driver door and elsewhere.

 

[Lolacat]

I was just googling stuff and I came across this- a discussion about Fred's police statement. Its a very interesting discussion:

http://.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/maura-murray_6.html

 

[Fireweed]

I have been saying for a long time that there is something very "off" about Fred's statements. He does not tell a narrative the way I would expect someone in his situation to. I think most people instinctively pick up on this, which is why so many people here are "suspicious" of Fred. But at the same time there are many people in the world who have no ability to pick up on statements that are unexpected; these are the people who constantly accuse the rest of us of "being mean" and "bashing" Fred. I will agree with those people that there is no physical or eyewitness evidence of anything "bad" Fred has done. It is mainly Fred's own statements and words that make me suspicious of him. Based solely on his words, I have concluded the following:

1. Fred was not in Amherst to buy Maura a car. Evidence: he has repeatedly used the phrase "you know?" after making this statement, a sign of lying. He often includes this in his narrative, but skips over other details about that weekend that are more important. It is sensitive to him because 1. it is not true and 2. the actual reason he was there that weekend is very sensitive to him.

2. Fred knows or thinks he knows why Maura drove to his hotel that night. Evidence: Again, he always skips over this part. This strikes me as odd. He is determined to never speak of why Maura went to his hotel. In fact, he is so determined to avoid talking about it, that he often gets his timeline confused as to when he first saw Maura and as to when he first learned about the wreck. Now wouldn't the normal reaction be to wonder, to find it odd, to muse out loud about it? No, because he knows, and he is determined to keep it a secret.

 

[Lolacat]

I have been saying for a long time that there is something very "off" about Fred's statements. He does not tell a narrative the way I would expect someone in his situation to. I think most people instinctively pick up on this, which is why so many people here are "suspicious" of Fred. But at the same time there are many people in the world who have no ability to pick up on statements that are unexpected; these are the people who constantly accuse the rest of us of "being mean" and "bashing" Fred. I will agree with those people that there is no physical or eyewitness evidence of anything "bad" Fred has done. It is mainly Fred's own statements and words that make me suspicious of him. Based solely on his words, I have concluded the following:

1. Fred was not in Amherst to buy Maura a car. Evidence: he has repeatedly used the phrase "you know?" after making this statement, a sign of lying. He often includes this in his narrative, but skips over other details about that weekend that are more important. It is sensitive to him because 1. it is not true and 2. the actual reason he was there that weekend is very sensitive to him.

2. Fred knows or thinks he knows why Maura drove to his hotel that night. Evidence: Again, he always skips over this part. This strikes me as odd. He is determined to never speak of why Maura went to his hotel. In fact, he is so determined to avoid talking about it, that he often gets his timeline confused as to when he first saw Maura and as to when he first learned about the wreck. Now wouldn't the normal reaction be to wonder, to find it odd, to muse out loud about it? No, because he knows, and he is determined to keep it a secret.

I find point 2 quite baffling. WHY would Maura drive to her father's hotel room at what, around 2am? Personally speaking, I would not feel at all comfortable sharing the same bed as my father (as an adult), and I think most people would want their own privacy. I FULLY admit that this is a very cultural/individual/personal thing- for some families, it really is no big deal for family members to all crash in the same room. BUT- if this were the case for Maura, then why wouldnt Fred have just crashed on the floor in her dorm room?- if them staying in the same room is genuinely no big deal and something that is completely appropriate and normal, then why pay money for a motel room when he could have just crashed on her dorm floor?

 

[Gene S.]

I find point 2 quite baffling. WHY would Maura drive to her father's hotel room at what, around 2am?

My guess would be that, perhaps with the courage that drinking can bring, she had resolved to say or do something to her father and felt it was very important to say/do it right then while she had the courage.

The $4,000 cash, Maura having Fred's car in the first place, and the sudden importance Maura felt of returning Fred's car are all pieces of a puzzle that are hard to make sense of.

 

[Fireweed]

Personally I would sleep in the same bed as my father if I had to. It certainly would not be my first choice, but I would not be disturbed by it or anything.

Something big caused Maura to drive over there that night, and I believe it was part of the build-up that caused her to take off that Monday.

I wonder if Kate called Maura that night and wanted to hang out so she went with Maura and Fred out to dinner. Like, was Maura expecting to be alone with her father that evening and that plan went astray? I wonder if Maura was planning on telling her father something that evening and realized later that she could only do it that night.

I mean, if I went to my father's hotel room at 2 in the morning he would be very distressed over that. He would immediately think that something was seriously wrong.

So I contend that Maura went there at 2 am because something was seriously wrong.

 

[nitsirk]

There's no way if I had wrecked my father's car, and it was towed, that I would wait until I woke up the next morning to tell him. I wouldn't be able to sleep worrying about his reaction. My father wasn't violent but I would be so afraid of disappointing him that I would have woken him up to tell him.

Of course, he would already be awake because he would have heard me come in the hotel room door...and if I didn't want to tell him right away I would have went back to my dorm.

 

[Captain_Khan]

My guess would be that, perhaps with the courage that drinking can bring, she had resolved to say or do something to her father and felt it was very important to say/do it right then while she had the courage.

That seems like a reasonable guess.

I'm trying to think of other possible interpretations too. Maybe Maura decided that she couldn't face being alone that night, for some reason? Did something happen at the party, did she take another distressing call?

I also wonder why the sobriety test wasn't administered at the first crash. Surely that's standard procedure?

 

[Gene S.]

I'm trying to think of other possible interpretations too. Maybe Maura decided that she couldn't face being alone that night, for some reason? Did something happen at the party, did she take another distressing call?

This certainly could have been the case as well, although it wouldn't have simply been a desire to not be alone. It would have been very easy for her to spend the night in one of her friends' dorm rooms if all she wanted was to not be alone. Instead, she chose to do something that required much more effort on her part--driving all the way to her father's hotel. It would have been very important, for some reason, for her that the person she was "unalone" with was her father.

 

[dogperson]

I tend to think they didn't spend the night sleeping but talking over whatever urgent problems Maura was having. There seems to have been something pretty serious going on, or at least something that troubled her a lot, and I think she wanted to talk about it no matter what time of night it was or how far she had to drive. Just my opinion, though. We may never know.

 

[Fireweed]

Maura was using Fred's phone at five in the morning to call Billy, so I agree, there was no sleeping going on. Something big was going down that night, and it wasn't the car accident. The car accident was simply the by-product of a very troubled and stressed out person driving after a few drinks.

 

[Fireweed]

Hey just throwing this out there: I wonder if Maura was bipolar and was in a manic state? I only ask because the couple of people I have known with bipolar disorder tend to do things like stay up all night, drive erratically, self-medicate with booze, and take impromptu "vacations". One woman I knew with it went from the family's "golden girl" to essentially a homeless woman within a year's time when she was 22. I knew another man who disappeared for a while; his wife found him in Cuba (and no, he is not Cuban or anything - he just went there).

Maybe she went to her father's hotel room because she had an (insane) impulse? Let's take it at face value that Maura really was agitated at the party about returning her father's car to him, i.e. her actual, real reason for returning the car at 2 in the morning was simply because she felt like she needed to return it. Well, isn't that crazy? I mean, wasn't that what her friends were trying to convince her of, that taking the car back in the middle of the night was crazy?

 

[Gene S.]

Maybe she went to her father's hotel room because she had an (insane) impulse? Let's take it at face value that Maura really was agitated at the party about returning her father's car to him, i.e. her actual, real reason for returning the car at 2 in the morning was simply because she felt like she needed to return it. Well, isn't that crazy? I mean, wasn't that what her friends were trying to convince her of, that taking the car back in the middle of the night was crazy?

Obviously it's hard to know why she felt it was so important to return her father's car Saturday night. Fred may know, her friends she was with that night may know, but no one else really knows. As I said about, my best guess is that she had resolved to say or do something to Fred and wanted to say/do it while she still had the courage. But that's just a guess. It's also possible, as Captain_Khan says above, that she didn't want to be alone that night. It's certainly also possible that she had an insane/irrational impulse. Adding another possibility, we know she could be passive aggressive (as in the printed copy of Billy's email)--perhaps Fred wasn't happy that she was going to keep his car that night and so her wee-hour attempt to return his car was another passive aggressive act.

 

[Lolacat]

I wouldnt rule out the possibility of Maura being bi-polar but I think there would have been other signs- grades slipping, friends noticing odd behaviours etc.. When people are in the grip of a full blown manic episode, its impossible to hide it- people notice it- they are often on the receiving end of pressured speech and irritability etc... Maura seemed secretive and able to keep her life fairly compartmentalized which makes me think it probably wasnt full blown mental illness. I have often wondered how the alcohol was affecting her though. Most of her *out of character* decisions have been made whilst under the influence which I find interesting. Alcohol is a depressant and over time it really does increase anxiety/stress levels, and alter your brain chemistry. Drinking was probably the worst thing Maura could do if she felt out of control of her life. Alcohol just made it the "perfect storm".

 

[Fireweed]

Her grades may have been slipping. It was early February, and it is entirely possible that she was "failing" all of her classes. She could have gotten a failing grade on every single assignment she had so far and still she would have been in the university and the nursing program. It would have only gotten bad at the end of the semester when the grades came out. In fact, there may not have even been a graded assignment yet. The fact that she was willing to take off for an entire week leads me to believe that she was not as serious about school as her family claims.

 

[dogperson]

I wish we knew whether any friends or classmates had ever observed Maura in a manic state. My husband is bipolar but it actually didn't reach its peak til he was in his late 30s. If you are Bipolar II like him it isn't as obvious as Bipolar I, the type we are more familiar with. I also have a close relative with Bipolar I which began at a young preteen age.

According to what the counselors told me and my husband, they think about 70% or more of bipolar people try to self-medicate with alcohol. They are often misdiagnosed because they only report the depressive side to their doctors. When they are manic they feel great. So lots of times they are treated for the depression and many of those drugs actually make the mania worse.

Both the people I know with bipolar were prone to binge drinking, irrational ideas and risk taking such as driving recklessly or taking off on crazy trips, getting up and running off in the middle of the night, starting ambitious projects or courses of education they were then not able to complete, etc.

I think Maura probably felt she was going to disappoint her dad scholastically/athletically and felt under a lot of pressure. I think a number of things were building up to the point she was in serious distress. There may be other things that were going on we don't know about besides the credit card fraud, the accidents, possibly not doing well in school, and so forth. I think whatever made her go to her dad's hotel that room was so urgent and so upsetting to her that she just couldn't wait for morning.

 

[Tssiemer]

How do we know she wasn't on psych meds? Or bought them illegally if not prescribed? Alcohol and psych meds do not mix well together.


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