NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[BillNH]

I guess I really (honestly) don't see myself as towing the suicide line (and that is what frustrates me the most and makes me feel like I constantly have to defend and answer for myself).

If I am at all "married" to something concerning this case, it would be my interpretation of the facts/information of the case (which then leads me to the suicide theory).

Maybe that is the same thing.

But I don't see it that way.


I would have no trouble jumping theories, if something new developed or some piece of information came out that clarified an issue.

But I have been firm in my place for many years now, because what I have interpretated has led me down one path and nothing has come along to sway be back another direction.

I honestly believe that is how "real" investigations work too (maybe I'm wrong).

Investigators, I would like to think, don't pick a theory right from jump and then go out and try to solve their case working in the constraints of their theory.

They only start with what evidence they have and they let that evidence grow and lead (in a more natural way) to an actual theory. They don't dictate the theory of what happened, their research and evidence unveils the theory to them.

I seem outspoken against other theories, because they seem to follow that example I just gave.

The approach is, let's come up with a theory right from jump (like Maura ran away to start a new life) and we'll try and twist the information around that is known about the case to fit our theory.

My approach (at least I believe I have done it) was never to work off a theory when doing research.

I scooped up as much information as I could, analyzed interviews of family members in the press, made notes of conflicting information and the origins of that confliciting information, to try and pinpoint down the truth, went back and conducted a pair of interviews myself with people involved in the case, just to try and nail down clarification of factual information etc etc..

None of that stuff was done (by me I swear) with suicide being in the back of my mind as this is what had to have happened to Maura.


Once I processed everything, really tried to understand where everyone was coming from in this case (in other words, not just taken their words as fact), then the suicide theory, I guess you could say, developed.

I originally believed Maura succumbed to the elements.

That was my first instincts after my first attempt at learning about the case.

But what I quickly found out was that there were a lot of conflicting information out there, and what actually pulled me in more (to want to spend time on this case) was not wanting to prove out a theory, but I just wanted to be the person that would go through and straighten out all the details of the case to make it less confusing for everyone else.

And somehow in the end, this is where its at.

The whole rub is that on one hand I do feel confident I have done my due diligence in researching this case, much like someone who is studying for an exam, who put in a lot of time and feels confident that they will not be surprised come test day.

On the other hand, I could have interpretated the "facts" wrong.

But with so many things at least that could possibly point to suicide in this case, (and yes one could argue point for point on each suicidial indicator that I have mentioned) where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

And there are too many things that have to be explained away (IMO) when it comes to the suicide theory.

And I can't see that in any other theory that I have heard about this case.

I first heard of Maura shortly after I moved to the area of her Haverhill accident in 2005. I'm not a local, I'm not family and I had never given the whole thing any thought for many years after moving here. I literally watched the discovery episode on a whim about 3 years ago after my teenage kids and their friends had the bright idea to take a Ouija board up to the accident site. (they all got creeped out and left, no questions answered) My first dose of the case came knowing absolutely nothing about Maura, her family, or their dealings with the locals or the police. I didn't even know what the prevailing theory was, I just knew some girl from Mass wrecked her car and was never heard from again. So more than anything, I went in as raw and blind as could be and everything I believed just put itself together as I learned more. I am no writer but I do not think I could have started in a less biased way than I did.

I came into this with no preconceived theory's. I have come to my theory in much the same way as you have, yet I have come to a different conclusion. To me, this speaks more to the ambiguity of this case than to the discrepancies in your method. You, however, see those that fail to reach your same conclusion as flawed in some way or having not tried as hard as you to get to the truth. I think that since you believe you have put more time into it than the rest of us that you are entitled to be more right than anyone else, and that, I believe, is the bias in your opinion.

This is just my honest opinion. Maybe helpful, maybe not. I appreciate the information you have provided and I truly offer my opinion here as constructive, not malicious. I really feel that if you open your mind a little further, some very interesting things could come out.

 

[bragi]

Maybe Fred decided that Maura had "screwed up one too many times" and brought the money to give to her to be able to live on her own, but that he was "done" with her and didn't want to see her any more. Maybe the disturbing call from her "sister" was someone telling her that Fred discovered her recent credit card fraud (and/or other problems), and Maura thought "oh my God, oh no, he found out" and knew that this would mean terrible consequences for her (e.g. Fred refusing to pay for her school any more).

With this hypothesis, it makes Maura spending a lot of her last small amount of money on liquor seem like less of a hardship. If Maura knew that she had all this money, she wouldn't care about buying a bunch of booze in order to numb the pain.

Maura brings the car accident forms to Fred, but he puts his foot down and hands Maura the money, at which point she storms off, with the forms thrown into her car.

In this scenario, the fake party could have been a "what do I do now" conversation. Whatever Maura decides to do would further piss off Fred, so nobody discusses it because they don't want to "get their friend in trouble."

 

[Fireweed]

Maybe Fred knew for some reason that Maura had around $4,000 cash, and used that story to cover for her in case she was found with that amount of money on her.

 

[BillNH]

Maybe Fred knew for some reason that Maura had around $4,000 cash, and used that story to cover for her in case she was found with that amount of money on her.

Why would he set that up without following through with "and I gave it to Maura...."

It could have bolstered his dirtbag claims that she had cash on her. Someone saw it when she opened her purse in the liquor store, or when she filled her tank or stopped at Butsons or McDonalds..

It would actually have been the only legitimate motivation for a crime that he could actually point to instead of his open ended and obviously hail mary-ish dirtbag theory since he tanked his only other chance by claiming he told Maura to put the rag in the tailpipe. The rag is still a mystery but he shut off any investigation of that by taking credit for it.

The more I think about it the more I believe Fred has tried to control the investigation to the point that he has really screwed himself in regards to ever getting answers.

 

[leilarose68]

I think sometimes people forget how very porous the borders were even after 9/11. Everyone must understand that despite a need for tighter border control, there simply was not the infrastructure in place to make that a reality for quite some time. I think it was in 2009 or so that one needed a passport to go to Mexico. Things did not happen immediately after 9/11. Maura could have crossed into Canada and just shown her DL, without anyone scanning it.

If Maura were to do this I imagine a ton of research would have had to go into it... why was there nothing on her computer? I find this very hard to believe

 

[leilarose68]

For me, there's so much that doesn't make sense about the suicide theory. The biggest is, why not just kill yourself at UMass? I don't accept this romantic, driving into the mountains to commune with nature before I kill myself theory. That doesn't happen in real life. I believe she was starting a new life. And I will never believe she encountered an opportunistic killer in the five minute window on the side of the rural road (where the PI later discovered only 7 cars pass by that spot in a typical hour). However... there is a chance she got spooked after the crash and somebody hit her with their car. But where's the body? I know Scoops gets upset whenever I mention this, but the ground was searched extremely well. The volunteer searchers for the family combed the area within a mile radius of where she disappeared. But more than that, the authorities conducted two extensive ground searches, with a team of officers and volunteers. It ain't there.

It does happen in real life. Just the other day I was reading about a case of a guy who drove all the way from Michigan or something to SF just to commit suicide off the bridge. Plenty of suicidal people romanticize their suicides... it becomes a kind of mission of personal spirituality, in a way. this isn't uncommon at all.

 

[BillNH]

If Maura were to do this I imagine a ton of research would have had to go into it... why was there nothing on her computer? I find this very hard to believe

And in reality, it doesn't take much planning at all. Check out Renners latest post, good example. Fireweed has tossed out several examples and I am sure would give more if asked.

Sure there are those that DO put in a ton of research, but there are plenty who don't and succeed.

Research not required.

 

[Rosefinch]

This is my first time posting so I apologise if I raise something that's already been cleared up. I would like to stress that I have an open mind about her fate; I see merit in all the various scenarios and no compelling evidence to definitely support any of them. I find this case really interesting because I was also a nursing student who ended up dropping out despite high grades because I developed mental health issues. I have read through a fair bit of the forums and other information online and a few things strike me.

There seems to be a several statements that are stated as known facts but do not seem to have much evidence to support them. For example, it keeps getting repeated that she left her car in unsuitable clothing with only a bag of alcohol. Is this actually verified? BA spoke to her briefly in the dark and couldn't have seen her clothes clearly. She left most of her clothes packed up in here dorm but there is no way that family would have known every garment owned by a young women living away from home. She was keen on the outdoors, known to go running in winter. Who's to say whether she had some high performance thermals on, a spare pair of hiking boots that she'd bought months before, maybe the movement at the rear of the car was her collecting a down jacket and emergency pack from the boot/trunk of the car?
Much has been made about how frightening the woods are at night, that she could not possibly have travelled far on foot and that she would have succumbed to hypothermia in minutes. I think that is very likely true for the average young female student but Maura was absolutely not typical in this respect. She was an athlete who was known to run in the dark over Christmas. She was a former West Point cadet who very likely had survival training. She had often been to the mountains, it is not outwith the bounds of possibility that she had a variety of bits of equipment left over from her army training days or her regular hiking and camping trips. When I was a student, I don't think my parents could have looked through a few boxes of my belongings and identified what was missing. Certainly, they'd know my favourite sweatshirts and my usual coat but that's about all, except for items they'd given me as gifts. It's quite possible her backpack could have had a foil blanket, maybe a bivvy sack, torch, multitool, map, energy bars - they would have taken up very little room and are items she likely could have owned already.
The other thing that I've wondered about is money. If she really did have only the money from emptying her bank account, a big chunk of which she spent on alcohol then that does suggest either suicide or an accomplice. But we don't know that she only had that money. She could have been hoarding cash for a while (fraudulently buying pizza to avoid spending her own money). It's not clear whether Fred retained the $4000, perhaps all or some of it was in Maura's possession. She previously had a secret relationship with the assistant coach that no-one seemed to know about til long afterwards, perhaps she had other older boyfriends that gave her money or gifts. Might her friends have lent her a bit of money; perhaps that's the secret that her two friends are unwilling to talk about. She committed small scale credit card fraud at UMASS and there's a some suggestion that she might have been involved in stealing at West Point, might she have committed other petty crimes that would supply another source of cash.
Lastly, there was a thought that occurred to me. It is entirely without foundation but I wanted to mention it as no-one else has considered it. She packed up her dorm, wrapped up loose ends and left a copy of an email referring to her boyfriend's infidelity and left, possibly never intending to return. She may have been suicidal or may have meant to start anew somewhere. She was doing well at university, was due to graduate, broadly speaking things were going well. If she was abandoning that then there must have been a compelling reason and one that she could not disclose even in a farewell letter or suicide note. That leads me to think it was something that would make people think badly of her, something she was ashamed of, perhaps. That has been a logic that lots of people here have followed and it has led them to consider possibilities such as; her petty crimes becoming public, her involvement in the Vasi incident, a dark family secret such as abuse, alcoholism, or pregnancy. Her supposed promiscuity, the secret coach boyfriend and her erratic relationship with BR have all been cited as potentially related to a pregnancy that she was ashamed of. But it could also have led to something else that she felt was life-altering. If it is plausible that she was having risky sex that could have caused pregnancy, then it is plausible that she could have had risky sex that led to a serious health condition - HIV or Hepatitis? Both would be pretty devastating. It is unlikely but no more so than some of the motives suggested here.

 

[Fireweed]

Why would he set that up without following through with "and I gave it to Maura...."

It could have bolstered his dirtbag claims that she had cash on her. Someone saw it when she opened her purse in the liquor store, or when she filled her tank or stopped at Butsons or McDonalds..

It would actually have been the only legitimate motivation for a crime that he could actually point to instead of his open ended and obviously hail mary-ish dirtbag theory since he tanked his only other chance by claiming he told Maura to put the rag in the tailpipe. The rag is still a mystery but he shut off any investigation of that by taking credit for it.

The more I think about it the more I believe Fred has tried to control the investigation to the point that he has really screwed himself in regards to ever getting answers.

These are good questions, and I have been thinking about it. I agree with you that Fred definitely wanted control over the whole situation. That has always been something that stuck out to me.

I could see Fred leaving the issue of the money as something sort of "open" in the investigation. I believe that Fred and the rest of the Murray family, at least in the first week or so after the crash in Haverhill, definitely led on that they thought that Maura had taken off by herself, but I think that they also desperately wanted her back. To this end I think that Fred made it seem like Maura had not wandered far.

My little brainstorm is that Fred most certainly did not want to make it look like Maura had the means to truly take off to anywhere in the world, but he also did not want to be "in trouble" if Maura were found with the $4,000 on her. Hence, he concocted a story that was just ambiguous enough to cover all sides.

BTW, I know that the Murray family reads this page and Renner's blog. There has been speculation about this and many other topics for years. They could always just come forward and clear this up. Obviously, they do not owe us anything; that is certainly not what I am suggesting. But if they honestly and truly want Maura back and if they actually have no idea what happened to her, then it would only be in Maura's interest to clarify many of these points. The fact that they refuse to talk speaks volumes to me. If it were my sister, then I would do anything and everything to make sure that the facts were clear so that people could focus their search efforts in the right place. Again, I cannot fathom how the Murrays can seemingly let Maura's case become polluted with misinformation when she is still missing. After the Cleveland incident, we know that there is always still hope that a missing woman is still alive. Why the Murrays refuse to clarify any of this is so totally mind-boggling to me that I do not even know where to begin. If Fred sincerely thinks that a local dirtbag grabbed her, then he should naturally come out and explain whether Maura had the $4,000 on her or not. If he gives a reliable denial, then he will have a lot of people on his side. I know that he is not stupid. This is no longer an active police investigation, so if anyone "finds" Maura it will be people like us.

It is for the above reasons that I think that the Murrays know a lot more about what happened to Maura than they are letting on. Again, I know that they monitor boards like this. At any time, they could issue a simple press release about all these unanswered questions that they know the answer to , and everyone could put their focus where it is most likely to bring Maura home.

 

[BillNH]

These are good questions, and I have been thinking about it. I agree with you that Fred definitely wanted control over the whole situation. That has always been something that stuck out to me.

I could see Fred leaving the issue of the money as something sort of "open" in the investigation. I believe that Fred and the rest of the Murray family, at least in the first week or so after the crash in Haverhill, definitely led on that they thought that Maura had taken off by herself, but I think that they also desperately wanted her back. To this end I think that Fred made it seem like Maura had not wandered far.

My little brainstorm is that Fred most certainly did not want to make it look like Maura had the means to truly take off to anywhere in the world, but he also did not want to be "in trouble" if Maura were found with the $4,000 on her. Hence, he concocted a story that was just ambiguous enough to cover all sides.

BTW, I know that the Murray family reads this page and Renner's blog. There has been speculation about this and many other topics for years. They could always just come forward and clear this up. Obviously, they do not owe us anything; that is certainly not what I am suggesting. But if they honestly and truly want Maura back and if they actually have no idea what happened to her, then it would only be in Maura's interest to clarify many of these points. The fact that they refuse to talk speaks volumes to me. If it were my sister, then I would do anything and everything to make sure that the facts were clear so that people could focus their search efforts in the right place. Again, I cannot fathom how the Murrays can seemingly let Maura's case become polluted with misinformation when she is still missing. After the Cleveland incident, we know that there is always still hope that a missing woman is still alive. Why the Murrays refuse to clarify any of this is so totally mind-boggling to me that I do not even know where to begin. If Fred sincerely thinks that a local dirtbag grabbed her, then he should naturally come out and explain whether Maura had the $4,000 on her or not. If he gives a reliable denial, then he will have a lot of people on his side. I know that he is not stupid. This is no longer an active police investigation, so if anyone "finds" Maura it will be people like us.

It is for the above reasons that I think that the Murrays know a lot more about what happened to Maura than they are letting on. Again, I know that they monitor boards like this. At any time, they could issue a simple press release about all these unanswered questions that they know the answer to , and everyone could put their focus where it is most likely to bring Maura home.

I agree that it would be nice if they cleared some of these things up. At this point however, I don't think anyone would believe anything they say, I know I wouldn't. There has been too much silence, too much evasion, too much misinformation from the last 11 years, all I would do is take it with a grain of salt and question their motivation. They have done that much damage. Some of it is not their fault, and that is regrettable, but its mostly on them and the way they have tried to manipulate the investigation from the beginning. Its irreparable damage.

 

[sandcastle]

I want to reply to something Rosefinch brought up in her post.

Your right that we don't really know what Maura was wearing or had with her when she left the car. However I am assuming that LE saw what she was wearing on the video when she got her money out of the ATM earlier that day. That's is how I suppose LE and the media have stated what she was wearing and that she took a black backpack with her. As to why the video of her at the ATM was not released your guess is as good as mine. It would be the most up to date and last photo of a missing person. I can't understand why it was never released other then it shows something that LE doesn't want anyone to see.
As far as the backpack goes. As I understand it, Maura didn't carry a purse but rather carried a SMALL backpack to keep her things in. I have never seen a picture of it. Which again is strange, since the family must have some photos of Maura with it. If it is the case that it is not a full size pack then it would seen highly unlikely that she took the bottles of liquor with her.
As far as the money. I am not sure we can make a lot out of it. We know she withdrew most of her money from her account. But she also had a credit card with her. Any hotel would have wanted a credit card on file even if she was going to pay with cash for a room. So I think it is logical to assume that Maura was planning on putting any hotel charges on her credit card to begin with.
I have to agree that something drove Maura to leave Umass. Maybe we can talk about when she first started planning her trip.
It is my opinion that it was something that her father said on the phone late Sunday night. We know that Fred called her around midnight. And according to some released info, as soon as she hangs up the phone she is on the computer searching for places in to stay in Vermont. It is a shame we don't know what the police do and what is on the computer.
I have to agree with Bill and Fireweed, why can't someone in the family just set some simple points straight. What would it hurt at this point?

 

[Fireweed]

I want to reply to something Rosefinch brought up in her post.

Your right that we don't really know what Maura was wearing or had with her when she left the car. However I am assuming that LE saw what she was wearing on the video when she got her money out of the ATM earlier that day. That's is how I suppose LE and the media have stated what she was wearing and that she took a black backpack with her. As to why the video of her at the ATM was not released your guess is as good as mine. It would be the most up to date and last photo of a missing person. I can't understand why it was never released other then it shows something that LE doesn't want anyone to see.
As far as the backpack goes. As I understand it, Maura didn't carry a purse but rather carried a SMALL backpack to keep her things in. I have never seen a picture of it. Which again is strange, since the family must have some photos of Maura with it. If it is the case that it is not a full size pack then it would seen highly unlikely that she took the bottles of liquor with her.
As far as the money. I am not sure we can make a lot out of it. We know she withdrew most of her money from her account. But she also had a credit card with her. Any hotel would have wanted a credit card on file even if she was going to pay with cash for a room. So I think it is logical to assume that Maura was planning on putting any hotel charges on her credit card to begin with.
I have to agree that something drove Maura to leave Umass. Maybe we can talk about when she first started planning her trip.
It is my opinion that it was something that her father said on the phone late Sunday night. We know that Fred called her around midnight. And according to some released info, as soon as she hangs up the phone she is on the computer searching for places in to stay in Vermont. It is a shame we don't know what the police do and what is on the computer.
I have to agree with Bill and Fireweed, why can't someone in the family just set some simple points straight. What would it hurt at this point?

I do often wonder why LE here will not release the footage from the ATM. I get that at first they want to keep some things secret so that they can confirm that a suspect or witness has first-hand knowledge, but gee, it has been eleven years without a single lead. Maybe it would behoove LE to rethink their master plan here.

Yes I think you are correct that Maura starting at least outwardly planning her trip after her phone conversation with her father. I think it is possible that she got some information from Fred about where to stay in either Stowe or Bartlett. At the very least, I think that Fred has a pretty darn good idea as to why Maura went up there. And, no, it was not to commit suicide. Under that theory one would have to believe that a father would just leave his suicidal daughter, and that when that same suicidal daughter did not call when she said she would, that that same father would not be frantically trying to reach her. Absolutely none of Fred's actions on Sunday or Monday indicate that he ever thought that Maura was suicidal.

 

[Fireweed]

If Maura were to do this I imagine a ton of research would have had to go into it... why was there nothing on her computer? I find this very hard to believe

Because in 2004, people still did not necessarily feel the need to research every last little bit of information of their computer. If Maura had a memory of going across the border with just her DL, then that would likely have been good enough for her. Or maybe she if crossed the border she went up there without any solid knowledge about it.

 

[BillNH]

Because in 2004, people still did not necessarily feel the need to research every last little bit of information of their computer. If Maura had a memory of going across the border with just her DL, then that would likely have been good enough for her. Or maybe she if crossed the border she went up there without any solid knowledge about it.

How true. This obsession with researching everything to death is a result of the home computer age, not it's impetus. People pre-Microsoft Windows still voluntarily went missing and I would bet they didn't spend much time in a library researching who what when where why, before doing so.

 

[Fireweed]

How true. This obsession with researching everything to death is a result of the home computer age, not it's impetus. People pre-Microsoft Windows still voluntarily went missing and I would bet they didn't spend much time in a library researching who what when where why, before doing so.

Michelle Mcmullen claims she did not really plan it. And there was nothing on the computers of either Brandi Stahr or Brenda Heist. I think this is for a couple of reasons. Well, Stahr was perhaps a little too early in the internet age to have even considered doing much research on her computer. But in general it is because these things are not really all that planned. If Maura is still a live, and if she followed the pattern of people who did this. Then she "planned" it for a day or two, and those plans had no real goal or end point. Didn't Mcmullen "plan" it as far as her car running out of gas?

With Maura, I always just sort of thought that the White Mountains were her first stop on a long journey to where ever. Or maybe they were just going to be her place to rethink her life. I mean, who did Maura go there with? Her father. That was her place where she felt connected to him. Since she could not just talk out her issues with her father, her subconscious mind desperately searched for a way the two could bond. So if Maura gets off the phone with her father Sunday night, and almost immediately starts searching for a place to stay in the White Mountains, perhaps that was just her puny attempt at recreating what was once a strong bond with him that was now broken.

 

[leilarose68]

And in reality, it doesn't take much planning at all. Check out Renners latest post, good example. Fireweed has tossed out several examples and I am sure would give more if asked.

Sure there are those that DO put in a ton of research, but there are plenty who don't and succeed.

Research not required.

Several examples out of HOW many women who are missing? It's still statistically incredibly rare. And there is only one woman who was deliberately 'lost' for longer than Maura and then came back to her family and that's Brenda Heist and she was gone one year longer than Maura has been gone. So Maura being out there somewhere is still quite unlikely at the 10th year of her disappearance

EDIT: Ooops. IT seems that Maura has actually been gone for roughly 11 years, same as Brenda Heist. So she has almost been gone longer than every single woman who ran away and came back/was found.

 

[leilarose68]

Michelle Mcmullen claims she did not really plan it. And there was nothing on the computers of either Brandi Stahr or Brenda Heist. I think this is for a couple of reasons. Well, Stahr was perhaps a little too early in the internet age to have even considered doing much research on her computer. But in general it is because these things are not really all that planned. If Maura is still a live, and if she followed the pattern of people who did this. Then she "planned" it for a day or two, and those plans had no real goal or end point. Didn't Mcmullen "plan" it as far as her car running out of gas?

With Maura, I always just sort of thought that the White Mountains were her first stop on a long journey to where ever. Or maybe they were just going to be her place to rethink her life. I mean, who did Maura go there with? Her father. That was her place where she felt connected to him. Since she could not just talk out her issues with her father, her subconscious mind desperately searched for a way the two could bond. So if Maura gets off the phone with her father Sunday night, and almost immediately starts searching for a place to stay in the White Mountains, perhaps that was just her puny attempt at recreating what was once a strong bond with him that was now broken.

recreating her relationship with her father by going to the mountains due to some subconscious repressed emotions about him? seems like more of a stretch than suicidal ideation, honestly. i get where you're coming from, but it seems more creative than anything. just because she would sometimes go to the mountains with her father does not mean the mountains = her relationship to her father

 

[BillNH]

Several examples out of HOW many women who are missing? It's still statistically incredibly rare. And there is only one woman who was deliberately 'lost' for longer than Maura and then came back to her family and that's Brenda Heist and she was gone one year longer than Maura has been gone. So Maura being out there somewhere is still quite unlikely at the 10th year of her disappearance

EDIT: Ooops. IT seems that Maura has actually been gone for roughly 11 years, same as Brenda Heist. So she has almost been gone longer than every single woman who ran away and came back/was found.

I don't disagree that of the known data, it is statistically rare. The problem with statistics is that if you are lacking data, it skews the statistic. We can safely say, using your example, that the longest anyone has voluntarily gone missing and THEN FOUND is 11 years. The missing data is " who has voluntarily gone missing for more than 11 years." Obviously if they haven't been found, they are not included in the data. Which then makes this statistical comparison useless. Prior to Brenda Heist we could have said NO ONE has been found after voluntarily going missing as long as Maura and all of a sudden we have Brenda to completely change our statistic.

 

[Fireweed]

I don't disagree that of the known data, it is statistically rare. The problem with statistics is that if you are lacking data, it skews the statistic. We can safely say, using your example, that the longest anyone has voluntarily gone missing and THEN FOUND is 11 years. The missing data is " who has voluntarily gone missing for more than 11 years." Obviously if they haven't been found, they are not included in the data. Which then makes this statistical comparison useless. Prior to Brenda Heist we could have said NO ONE has been found after voluntarily going missing as long as Maura and all of a sudden we have Brenda to completely change our statistic.

That is just it - there are people out there who did this who were never found. And for those who were found, it was often just one bit of pure dumb luck that found them. In other words, no one tracked them down or anything. Look at the Michelle Mcmullen case. A woman who came into her salon and who already knew her saw her Disappeared episode. People almost never recognize someone they have not met before. Often someone will come here and argue that Maura would have been "spotted" by now. Well, Michelle Mcmullen, Brenda Heist and Brandi Stahr were "spotted" by thousands of people in the years they were missing. They lived right out in the open - being seen was never the issue; the issue was being recognized. If one of us was having one of those days where your thoughts are on all the stuff you have to get done, would we recognize Maura if we saw her? I dunno. Maybe, but maybe not. Would her father? Of course. He knows her.

 

[Lamima]

Here's another lady who went missing for 11 years until she was discovered...Bobbi Parker (just saw this story on TV today)...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ife-GUILTY-helping-prisoner-lover-escape.html