NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[froggydogg]

But was the car unlocked ? Keys left in the car?



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The keys were not at the scene to my knowledge, and according to the police reports the car was locked at the scene.
http://mauramurraymissing.com/Documents.html

However, according to Susan Champy and at least one more witness, the car door was open at the scene, and the police were inside the vehicle.

https://issuu.com/soco/docs/april11/80

"When she drove by Champy remembered noticing that police officers had one of the doors of Maura's car open. She recalled reading in the newspaper afterward that they'd obtained a search warrant the next day to search the vehicle, which made her wonder whether they should have had the door open without first getting a search warrant."

 

[bisybee]

About how Maura could have known police were on the way.... I posted a theory of mine a while ago about sirens. A fire truck was dispatched, right? Certainly they would have sirens on? The police too possibly? I guess it's impossible to say for sure but it seems likely to me anyways.

 

[dogperson]

Maybe the door was not locked and police opened the door to make sure no one was inside and injured?

 

[bighairdontcare]

Maybe the officer forcefully opened the door- I guess it would be treated as a crime scene, right? Wrecked car, no site of driver, witness gives Maura's description- Maybe in that case, that is enough of a reason to manually pop the locks on the car. The only thing that is weird is the short period of time that elapsed in regards to the BOLO.
I know that I have called the police to do a wellness check before- they forcefully open the door if no one answers. I don't know.... nothing really adds up to me.

 

[Caffeine]

Police could have easily open a locked door if need be, I've had police assist me before with a locked car with keys inside. Most of them have with them what's called a "slim jim" which just a flat metal rod that slides into the door and pops the lock up.

Regardless, I don't see a reason why they would have immediately opened the door. She obviously wasn't there. The officer probably ascertained she wasn't there and quickly went to speak with Atwood.

 

[Moggie73]

But the question still remains, how did Cecil Smith have an accurate description of Maura 8 minutes after arriving on scene? And why was that info ONLY put out as a BOLO for the fire dept.?

 

[TessDeco]

But the question still remains, how did Cecil Smith have an accurate description of Maura 8 minutes after arriving on scene? And why was that info ONLY put out as a BOLO for the fire dept.?

http://www.mass.gov/ago/consumer-re...ehicle-insurance/understanding-insurance.html


Required Coverage

In order to register and drive your vehicle in Massachusetts, you are required to at least purchase the auto coverages and limits shown in the table above. Your auto insurance policy must list all licensed drivers living in your household who are related to you by blood, marriage, or adoption, including drivers already covered by their own insurance policies. You should also list any person who occasionally drives your car. While the policy only requires you to list "customary" operators, insurers often interpret this term broadly, and some require that you list anyone who may use your vehicle.

Typically, drivers who have their own auto insurance policies can be listed on your policy as "deferred operators” at no additional charge. However, under Managed Competition, not all insurance companies will allow you to defer a driver who has his or her own insurance policy, and some carriers will charge you extra premium for doing so.

You can typically “exclude” any household member who does not drive your car, but in order to do so, you must submit an "exclusion form" to your insurance company. Drivers who only have a Learner's Permit are not required to be listed on your policy until they are fully licensed.

If you fail to list any "customary" operator or licensed household member, your insurance company might refuse to pay your claim, even if you were driving at the time of the accident.

----------------

BBM: Maybe Maura's name came up as a licensed driver for the Saturn when LE did a search of their data base that night? Apparently, listing all drivers in a household is required for car insurance in Massachusetts. IDK but I see no LE conspiracy here.

All just MHO

 

[Moggie73]

but this accident happened in NH, you don't need insurance to drive in NH, so I doubt their computer systems would list drivers.

 

[Tssiemer]

But they were from Mass.


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[Steleheart]

http://www.mass.gov/ago/consumer-re...ehicle-insurance/understanding-insurance.html


Required Coverage

In order to register and drive your vehicle in Massachusetts, you are required to at least purchase the auto coverages and limits shown in the table above. Your auto insurance policy must list all licensed drivers living in your household who are related to you by blood, marriage, or adoption, including drivers already covered by their own insurance policies. You should also list any person who occasionally drives your car. While the policy only requires you to list "customary" operators, insurers often interpret this term broadly, and some require that you list anyone who may use your vehicle.

Typically, drivers who have their own auto insurance policies can be listed on your policy as "deferred operators” at no additional charge. However, under Managed Competition, not all insurance companies will allow you to defer a driver who has his or her own insurance policy, and some carriers will charge you extra premium for doing so.

You can typically “exclude” any household member who does not drive your car, but in order to do so, you must submit an "exclusion form" to your insurance company. Drivers who only have a Learner's Permit are not required to be listed on your policy until they are fully licensed.

If you fail to list any "customary" operator or licensed household member, your insurance company might refuse to pay your claim, even if you were driving at the time of the accident.

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BBM: Maybe Maura's name came up as a licensed driver for the Saturn when LE did a search of their data base that night? Apparently, listing all drivers in a household is required for car insurance in Massachusetts. IDK but I see no LE conspiracy here.

All just MHO

Yes but all of that is about the policy not the registration. The policy is about the coverage required to register the car. The required registration certificate only lists the insurance company - not the policy number, not the coverage, not the listed covered drivers.

I have been licensed and registered in MA for 46 years. In my experience;

The listed drivers on the policy do not show on the registration certificate. Neither are they available via the registration plate. Calling it a "license plate" is a misnomer. The plate number will only show the registered owner(s), not the driver who crashed.

My Reg. Cert. only lists my wife and me - not my kids, not my neighbor, not my friend.

If Fred registered the car under Maura's name, then her name would come up from the plate number and her description would be available from the registry in MA if she had a valid license..

If Fred registered the car in his own name then only his description would come up from the registry if he had a valid license.

If Fred registered the car under both he and Maura then both their descriptions would come up as long as they both had valid licenses.

My daughter's car is registered in my wife and daughter's name. If I crashed that car and ran away then LE would only have their descriptions available - not mine.

How was the Saturn registered?

:moo:

 

[TessDeco]

Yes but all of that is about the policy not the registration. The policy is about the coverage required to register the car. The required registration certificate only lists the insurance company - not the policy number, not the coverage, not the listed covered drivers.

I have been licensed and registered in MA for 46 years. In my experience;

The listed drivers on the policy do not show on the registration certificate. Neither are they available via the registration plate. Calling it a "license plate" is a misnomer. The plate number will only show the registered owner(s), not the driver who crashed.

My Reg. Cert. only lists my wife and me - not my kids, not my neighbor, not my friend.

If Fred registered the car under Maura's name, then her name would come up from the plate number and her description would be available from the registry in MA if she had a valid license..

If Fred registered the car in his own name then only his description would come up from the registry if he had a valid license.

If Fred registered the car under both he and Maura then both their descriptions would come up as long as they both had valid licenses.

My daughter's car is registered in my wife and daughter's name. If I crashed that car and ran away then LE would only have their descriptions available - not mine.

How was the Saturn registered?

:moo:

Yes, IDK what information comes up in the NH law enforcement database when they search a car's license plate number. Maybe LE didn't look up Maura's description at all. Maybe the BOLO was based on Atwood's description of Maura. He stopped and talked to her. He could see she's a white woman in her 20's who was slender and average height. Did the Atwood's describe Maura to the 911 operator? Maybe LE already knew Maura's description before they even arrived at the crash scene and when she wasn't there, they issued the BOLO?

All just MHO..

 

[Steleheart]

Yes, IDK what information comes up in the NH law enforcement database when they search a car's license plate number. Maybe LE didn't look up Maura's description at all. Maybe the BOLO was based on Atwood's description of Maura. He stopped and talked to her. He could see she's a white woman in her 20's who was slender and average height. Did the Atwood's describe Maura to the 911 operator? Maybe LE already knew Maura's description before they even arrived at the crash scene and when she wasn't there, they issued the BOLO?

All just MHO..

That's what I always thought.

 

[BillNH]

That's what I always thought.

Me too. I'd bet Atwood gave a description when he called it in or told Officer Smith. 8 minutes is plenty of time to stop at scene, see the driver is not around and go to Atwood's to ask about the driver. It was reported that one of the first things Smith said to Atwood was " where's the driver?" At that point it would be immediate to call it in. Smith specifically requested GCSD to check Cottage hospital for the driver, so it makes sense that he would alert the fire department if he thought the driver may be headed that way.

But what do I know....

The popular theory now is that the Police are criminals and are covering for one of their own or someone important (LOL) So anything that makes sense or is even quite plausible is disregarded in favor of the sexy cover-up angle. smh

 

[Moggie73]

i think maybe the police had interaction with her before. There is no way Atwood would get 5'7" 120 pounds. It is VERY hard to guess someone's height and weight, when you don't have experience, a police officer, or nurse for example, when that persons body type is so different than your own.

 

[Moggie73]

Just to be clear, I am NOT going for a "sexy cover-up angle" I just believe it would be hard, if not impossible for Atwood to say the woman he saw was 5'7" and 120 pounds. That sounds more like fact, if I was giving a description of someone I saw for only a couple minutes I'd say, 5'6"-5'8", about 115-125 pounds.

 

[BillNH]

Just to be clear, I am NOT going for a "sexy cover-up angle" I just believe it would be hard, if not impossible for Atwood to say the woman he saw was 5'7" and 120 pounds. That sounds more like fact, if I was giving a description of someone I saw for only a couple minutes I'd say, 5'6"-5'8", about 115-125 pounds.

Maybe Atwood's wife, sister or daughter is 5'7? Officer Smith may have a method of eliciting that info from a witness the most accurately? Hell there's 1000 ways he could have come to the 5'7 120lbs description, only one of them puts the police in a bad light, perhaps it was not intended on your part, but there it is...

 

[Steleheart]

Just to be clear, I am NOT going for a "sexy cover-up angle" I just believe it would be hard, if not impossible for Atwood to say the woman he saw was 5'7" and 120 pounds. That sounds more like fact, if I was giving a description of someone I saw for only a couple minutes I'd say, 5'6"-5'8", about 115-125 pounds.

And from exactly that My BOLO would be in the middle. LE people know it is a range based on eyewitness descriptions.
If it turns out be accurate then great. If I received the BOLO I would understand it is a range.


:cow:

 

[Moggie73]

You are correct, his wife, mother or daughter may be 5'7", and 120 pounds, thank you for that suggestion.
I was just asking a question and I knew that info couldn't have come from the vehicle license plate, and I really didn't think Butch could have pulled that description out. I guess he could have. Thanks

 

[Caffeine]

I was looking over a few things and one thing jumped out at me that I never really visualized or thought about on a personal level. When Maura crashed on 112 her car was reportedly facing the wrong way on the side of the road.

Whether she kept her lights on, I don't know. But regardless any incoming traffic would have seen her car to the right, illuminated by their own headlights. Atwood confirmed there were at least a few cars that passed when he went home to call police.

Even if the odds were 4 passing cars, wouldn't it seem likely that at least one would make contact?

I mean, if I were driving down the road and approached a car facing the wrong way, with a lone driver either inside or outside the car, I would at least see if this person was OK. The sight of it seems to be unmistakable; something went wrong.

Would you stop for someone in this situation?

 

[Embley]

I was looking over a few things and one thing jumped out at me that I never really visualized or thought about on a personal level. When Maura crashed on 112 her car was reportedly facing the wrong way on the side of the road.

Whether she kept her lights on, I don't know. But regardless any incoming traffic would have seen her car to the right, illuminated by their own headlights. Atwood confirmed there were at least a few cars that passed when he went home to call police.

Even if the odds were 4 passing cars, wouldn't it seem likely that at least one would make contact?

I mean, if I were driving down the road and approached a car facing the wrong way, with a lone driver either inside or outside the car, I would at least see if this person was OK. The sight of it seems to be unmistakable; something went wrong.

Would you stop for someone in this situation?

But would you not carry on if you couldn't spot the driver? We don't really know how long she would have stayed with her vehicle.

Also, I think people would only really stop if they didn't already have somewhere important to be, like work, or to pick up their kids. I know some people would stop despite the circumstances, but you'd be amazed how many people would continue on if they have places to be, especially if they think someone else will pass by and offer assistance.