NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

[PaulR]

The SAR rescue/recovery operations that I've heard have been the least successful have been when the victim has made a lot more ground than SAR anticipated which makes it all but impossible to narrow down the search scope to a manageable size.

I think it is also possible (though not plausible) that someone gave her a lift out of the immediate area and she took off from there, and the person who gave her a lift has followed Renner's blog and does not want to be identified as the "person last seeing Maura alive" because they would become suspect #1 regardless of any evidence.

 

[leilarose68]

New to websleuths, but I've been interested in this case for awhile. While you can never discount the possibitly that she was abducted, I believe the most likely scenario is that she fled the scene, hid, and got lost in woods and succumbed to the elements.

I read people saying that isn't possible because she would have left tracks or would have had to walk through feet of snow, but that isn't necessarily true. Looking through historic weather data, the night she went missing the temperature was in the low to mid 30's with a light breeze. It's a cold night, but it wouldn't feel terribly bad walking/running with alcohol in your system. Making it 3, 5, or even 10+ miles down the road, especially for a girl in her physical condition is absolutely possible.

Also, looking through historical weather records, there wasn't that much snow that winter and temperatures regularly were above freezing many days that winter. There would probably have been a few inches of dense, hard snow on the ground at the time. While she would leave tracks wherever she went into the woods, it would also be easy for her to navigate through and wouldn't slow her down much.

My guess is that she was in a hazy state from the alcohol and the shock/adrenaline from the crash and was afraid of getting into trouble by the police, so she bolted. She was a cross country girl and being full of alcohol and adrenaline, so she probably made a few miles down the road, possibly turning on a side road along the way. After the effects of it started wearing off and she started getting tired, she was probably feeling pretty warm from the distance she traveled and decided she would be fine to go into the woods to sleep it off. It's possible that she could have succumbed to the elements while she was asleep, but it's also possible that she woke up after getting too cold or sometime the next morning not knowing where she was and not knowing the right way to get back to the road and ended up traveling deeper into the woods before the cold finally got her.

Her being abducted will always be a possibility until proven otherwise, but in my mind at least, a scenario like I described above is the most likely one. I don't believe she was suicidal, I think she just made the wrong decisions that ultimately lead to her own death. A psychotic break can't be ruled out either. With all the stress she had been dealing with, that last accident could have pushed her past the breaking point. If she had a psychotic break, she could have started wondering through the woods at any point without having the sense of knowing when to turn back around.

But they searched 10 miles down the road and between the road-woods (from the crash site) & crucially, the further she ran the more likely it would have been that people saw her from a car, house or their yard. This is in part why I believe she hopped in a car (willingly) quite quickly. Maura was fast but she was no olympian; running 10 miles would have taken her at least an hour and in that time a bunch of cars would have seen her at the very least. Yes, this was a quiet road but not a deserted one.

I also think it's important to note that even if Maura were drunk, she was very experienced in hiking, camping and generally wilderness survival stuff. I think she would still have been very aware what running into the woods in these temperatures would mean. Couple that with her apparent (according to her sister) trust in townspeople and I know if I were her I would have tried to hitch a ride. Running on the roads is not that much safer than hitching a ride and it's a lot less effective. She also wasn't dressed for the weather; was she even wearing gloves? The forest is SUPER scary at night as well. I think she would have had to have been seriously suicidal to choose that option & I don't think distressed equals suicidal. I knew multiple girls in college who had troubles like Maura and would go away for awhile to get a break.

I don't really understand your argument that she wouldn't have left tracks in the snow either. Why, because it wasn't that cold? But there was 2 feet of snow in the woods and it wasn't warm enough to melt. I find it hard to believe that no tracks would have remained a mere 1.5 days later with basically no changes in weather.

I also think it's important to consider that the lead searcher has a near-perfect track record (hundreds of searches and only two, Maura included, remain missing) and most definitely understood the conditions better than we could. While search dogs are imperfect I also don't think we can 100% dismiss their efforts & all of their efforts point to Maura not being in the woods.

I think LE has talked about this being a criminal case before & apparently grand jury proceedings were done awhile ago so I'm inclined there are ,more reasons to believe she met with foul play.

 

[anya]

BBM:

But they searched 10 miles down the road and between the road-woods (from the crash site) & crucially, the further she ran the more likely it would have been that people saw her from a car, house or their yard. This is in part why I believe she hopped in a car (willingly) quite quickly. Maura was fast but she was no olympian; running 10 miles would have taken her at least an hour and in that time a bunch of cars would have seen her at the very least. Yes, this was a quiet road but not a deserted one.

I also think it's important to note that even if Maura were drunk, she was very experienced in hiking, camping and generally wilderness survival stuff. I think she would still have been very aware what running into the woods in these temperatures would mean. Couple that with her apparent (according to her sister) trust in townspeople and I know if I were her I would have tried to hitch a ride. Running on the roads is not that much safer than hitching a ride and it's a lot less effective. She also wasn't dressed for the weather; was she even wearing gloves? The forest is SUPER scary at night as well. I think she would have had to have been seriously suicidal to choose that option & I don't think distressed equals suicidal. I knew multiple girls in college who had troubles like Maura and would go away for awhile to get a break.

I don't really understand your argument that she wouldn't have left tracks in the snow either. Why, because it wasn't that cold? But there was 2 feet of snow in the woods and it wasn't warm enough to melt. I find it hard to believe that no tracks would have remained a mere 1.5 days later with basically no changes in weather.

I also think it's important to consider that the lead searcher has a near-perfect track record (hundreds of searches and only two, Maura included, remain missing) and most definitely understood the conditions better than we could. While search dogs are imperfect I also don't think we can 100% dismiss their efforts & all of their efforts point to Maura not being in the woods.

I think LE has talked about this being a criminal case before & apparently grand jury proceedings were done awhile ago so I'm inclined there are ,more reasons to believe she met with foul play.

This doesn't really answer your question about the gloves (BBM above) but they (LE) did find a pair of gloves in her car which they used one of for the sniffer dogs to get her scent.

IIRC her dad was upset that they chose to that particular pair for her scent as they were new and she didn't wear them (I think they were a Christmas gift? Feel free to correct me if mistaken about that - it's been awhile). He wanted them to use some other item found in her car that she normally wore/used regularly.
Anyway, to me, if she had planned ongoing missing that very night in that location (to which I'm still on the fence about), this implies she may very well have had on another pair of gloves or mittens that night. Obviously, no one knows for certain, of course.
As someone who grew up in a very cold Northern climate, gloves/mittens and/or liner-gloves are essential and are as attached to you as a cellphone come deep winter - second nature... Keeping a pair in every outer-layer pocket, just in case. But then again, her wearing no coat, boots, hat, etc and only a polar fleece outerlayer, clearly suggests she was ill prepared for a long hike though the snowy forest at night and if she did in fact leave on her own volition, it was clearly in scattered thinking and with disorganised haste.

The fact that so many questions remain unanswered, is truly uncanny and this is one of about five cases that I just can never let go thinking about.

 

[leilarose68]

BBM:


This doesn't really answer your question about the gloves (BBM above) but they (LE) did find a pair of gloves in her car which they used one of for the sniffer dogs to get her scent.

IIRC her dad was upset that they chose to that particular pair for her scent as they were new and she didn't wear them (I think they were a Christmas gift? Feel free to correct me if mistaken about that - it's been awhile). He wanted them to use some other item found in her car that she normally wore/used regularly.
Anyway, to me, if she had planned ongoing missing that very night in that location (to which I'm still on the fence about), this implies she may very well have had on another pair of gloves or mittens that night. Obviously, no one knows for certain, of course.
As someone who grew up in a very cold Northern climate, gloves/mittens and/or liner-gloves are essential and are as attached to you as a cellphone come deep winter - second nature... Keeping a pair in every outer-layer pocket, just in case. But then again, her wearing no coat, boots, hat, etc and only a polar fleece outerlayer, clearly suggests she was ill prepared for a long hike though the snowy forest at night and if she did in fact leave on her own volition, it was clearly in scattered thinking and with disorganised haste.

The fact that so many questions remain unanswered, is truly uncanny and this is one of about five cases that I just can never let go thinking about.

I believe that the gloves were actually in her room... that's why there was some controversy, because I guess they weren't 100% sure that she wore them.

I guess I try to put myself in her situation and even if I were somewhat inebriated and depressed I think I would avoid the terrifying woods at all costs & certainly wouldn't go deeper into them.

 

[Ibiz]

Sure, I dought she would have went in to the woods as well. I think she probably hitch a ride to her next destination.

 

[Ozoner]

I believe that the gloves were actually in her room... that's why there was some controversy, because I guess they weren't 100% sure that she wore them.

I guess I try to put myself in her situation and even if I were somewhat inebriated and depressed I think I would avoid the terrifying woods at all costs & certainly wouldn't go deeper into them.

I can't agree; I wouldn't consider the woods terrifying. If she were trying to avoid being is spotted by LE, she could have started out walking just inside woods, parallel to the road. She may have gradually strayed farther from the road and gotten list, but if she did die in the woods, then she may be far f ROM the crash site but still fairly close to a main road.

 

[Ozoner]

Maura was fast but she was no olympian; running 10 miles would have taken her at least an hour and in that time a bunch of cars would have seen her at the very least. Yes, this was a quiet road but not a deserted one.
. . .

I don't think an Olympian could run 10 miles in an hour in ordinary winter clothes with a backpack. Realistically, Maura could have made 4 miles per hour power walking on a paved surface and maybe 3 miles per hour walking off the beaten path. Even that pace would not have been sustainable for too long. If Rick saw her 4--5 miles from the scene of the accident, she had probably been walking for at least an hour.

I think LE has talked about this being a criminal case before & apparently grand jury proceedings were done awhile ago so I'm inclined there are more reasons to believe she met with foul play.

Where is the information coming from that there have been grand jury proceedings? That's a new one by me.

 

[Ibiz]

Ah, yea, NO. The woods would be to hard to walk in. Everything about this case seems to point to suicde. A person that was not willing to cope with life anymore. She packed up all the stuff at her dorm so her family members wouldn't have to. In my opinion She had no plans of comming back. I think there may have been a certain destination she want to get to and carry out her plan.

All the booze and drugs she purchased along the way points to serious depression. Someone going out to start a new life would not get drunk in the process of doing it.

 

[leilarose68]

I can't agree; I wouldn't consider the woods terrifying. If she were trying to avoid being is spotted by LE, she could have started out walking just inside woods, parallel to the road. She may have gradually strayed farther from the road and gotten list, but if she did die in the woods, then she may be far f ROM the crash site but still fairly close to a main road.

LOL okay, we'll have to agree to disagree then. The last place I'd want to be in freezing cold weather is the woods at night.

 

[PaulR]

LOL okay, we'll have to agree to disagree then. The last place I'd want to be in freezing cold weather is the woods at night.

The second last place I'd rather be is driving on a rural road at night in freezing cold weather but there she was.

 

[MaggieSky]

I believe that the gloves were actually in her room... that's why there was some controversy, because I guess they weren't 100% sure that she wore them.

I guess I try to put myself in her situation and even if I were somewhat inebriated and depressed I think I would avoid the terrifying woods at all costs & certainly wouldn't go deeper into them.

Yes I agree with this for sure. I think people get caught up in search stats and details that really mean nothing, they overlook the human side of the story.
She was probably in shock and really scared. I think it is obvious that yes she did want to remove herself from the accident scene for whatever reason. She was a young girl in a strange place to her, why would she run in the dark, cold woods?
Trying to put myself in her place, I would never get in a car with a stranger but in that situation you may have to risk it. If anything to get to the nearest store or a place with cell service. Or maybe even someone's house to make a call.
No one has made a rational argument on why she would run in the woods and somehow die. Just a few thoughts.

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[PaulR]

Yes I agree with this for sure. I think people get caught up in search stats and details that really mean nothing, they overlook the human side of the story.
She was probably in shock and really scared. I think it is obvious that yes she did want to remove herself from the accident scene for whatever reason. She was a young girl in a strange place to her, why would she run in the dark, cold woods?
Trying to put myself in her place, I would never get in a car with a stranger but in that situation you may have to risk it. If anything to get to the nearest store or a place with cell service. Or maybe even someone's house to make a call.
No one has made a rational argument on why she would run in the woods and somehow die. Just a few thoughts.

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How familiar was she with the area where she vanished? She may not have seen trees and thought "hey those are deep dark woods where I will easily get lost in" - I grew up in the 'burbs and none of the woods near me were all that big. You could pop in for a few minutes and walk out the other side, maybe find an old barn to sleep off the alcohol in. Rural folk may think woods go on forever, Maura grew up not far from Boston.

 

[skeptik]

Where is the information coming from that there have been grand jury proceedings? That's a new one by me.

I feel I am repeating myself but for the sake of new members I will repeat myself. The presence of a Grand Jury, and yes there was at least one and perhaps more than one early on in the investigation, DOES NOT MEAN there is an indictment or even a person of interest. Police often use what is called an "Investigative Grand Jury" to question witnesses and gather data and information. It is commonplace in large cases and especially commonplace with the Investigators who lead this case.

The presence of a Grand Jury does not mean there was an indictment or a POI. To my knowledge there had never been a person of interest who has not been mostly eliminated,

LOL okay, we'll have to agree to disagree then. The last place I'd want to be in freezing cold weather is the woods at night.

A huge problem with persons who have not been involved in major crime investigations is that they can not themselves grasp or understand the mindset of a person who has reached 'maximum overload' in their personal life.

So for you to say that the last place YOU would want to be is in 'freezing cold' weather in the woods at night, and therefore you preclude the possibility that Maura, or anyone for that matter, would have chosen that path, is naive and close minded.

Once you work a couple dozen suicides you start to see what 99% of 'normal' people don't and can't see, which is that people are capable of the most incomprehensible acts when they reach a certain point in their life. If you can't see that then good for you, it means you are in the 99% of people who have not committed suicide.

No one has made a rational argument on why she would run in the woods and somehow die.

Perhaps because for whatever reason she had reached the end of her rope and saw no way out. See above reference suicide.

She packed all of her things in her dorm room, she left a troubled email on top of those boxes.

She had several auto accidents just prior to her leaving UMass and had a less than ideal relationship with her father.

She bought quite a bit of alcohol on her way to NH, she was drinking while she drove.

She also bought several packs of sleeping pills with her and took at least one entire pack with her when she left her car.

She had her Third auto accident as a result of alcohol in less than 3 weeks.

She refused help from a local bus driver, and lied about calling AAA. She pleaded with the bus driver to NOT contact the police.

She took all of the alcohol (except the damaged box of wine) and one pack of sleeping pills with her and intentionally left the scene of her car accident ON FOOT in less than 10 minutes with the intent of avoiding the police and help.

When her Father and Sister were contacted by the police immediately after she went missing BOTH her Father's and Sister's reaction was that she likely walked into the woods to commit suicide, ie: "did the squaw walk."

So based on the totality of those facts and circumstances, can you seriously not understand that she could have run away and died on those woods?

 

[Ibiz]

Yes, I think that's what we've been saying all along. Thanks for putting it in English.

 

[RosalindaA]

Apologies in advance for "missing the obvious" as I know some things about the Maura Murray case but certainly haven't studied it as others have. But I feel a certain empathy with her as I was once a young female nursing student (with a hell of a lot of stuff in my car!) and I have a fair bit of professional and familial experience with suicidal/addictive/mentally ill people.

What I see is someone under a great deal of pressure with spiralling/accumulative events that she wasn't keeping under control. And even worse, she knew she was in a state of chaos. I think she was clearly trying to take some time out in a peaceful place to try and work out a way forward. Unfortunately, she was using alcohol to numb things, keep herself going. That horrendous tight bend in the road (which could have caused a lot of drivers unfamiliar with it to crash) could well have been a snapping point which caused desperation.

So possible this was a last straw and Maura took the drink and the pills from the car and decided she couldn't fight anymore. From what I can tell though this type of pill would not be a sure-fire choice for suicide and I think she would have known that. So I don't think she was driving such a long way with the prior intent to commit suicide, unless of course she had other stronger medication in the car that she took with her and we don't know about. She certainly would have had access to that and although there are safeguards around meds, Maura was clever enough to get round those.

Equally this type of situation, hitting rock bottom, can stimulate a survival response, and Maura had the physical and mental powers within her normally, she was a high achiever. But ultimately she didn't feel able to ask for help when she really needed it and that night with that weather and that environment I think she took on too much. I'm not convinced that it is possible to search that sort of landscape really effectively or that it was done thoroughly soon enough after her disappearance. If her survival instinct really kicked in, I think she could have got a considerable way before succumbing to the elements.

 

[MaggieSky]

I feel I am repeating myself but for the sake of new members I will repeat myself. The presence of a Grand Jury, and yes there was at least one and perhaps more than one early on in the investigation, DOES NOT MEAN there is an indictment or even a person of interest. Police often use what is called an "Investigative Grand Jury" to question witnesses and gather data and information. It is commonplace in large cases and especially commonplace with the Investigators who lead this case.

The presence of a Grand Jury does not mean there was an indictment or a POI. To my knowledge there had never been a person of interest who has not been mostly eliminated,



A huge problem with persons who have not been involved in major crime investigations is that they can not themselves grasp or understand the mindset of a person who has reached 'maximum overload' in their personal life.

So for you to say that the last place YOU would want to be is in 'freezing cold' weather in the woods at night, and therefore you preclude the possibility that Maura, or anyone for that matter, would have chosen that path, is naive and close minded.

Once you work a couple dozen suicides you start to see what 99% of 'normal' people don't and can't see, which is that people are capable of the most incomprehensible acts when they reach a certain point in their life. If you can't see that then good for you, it means you are in the 99% of people who have not committed suicide.




Perhaps because for whatever reason she had reached the end of her rope and saw no way out. See above reference suicide.

She packed all of her things in her dorm room, she left a troubled email on top of those boxes.

She had several auto accidents just prior to her leaving UMass and had a less than ideal relationship with her father.

She bought quite a bit of alcohol on her way to NH, she was drinking while she drove.

She also bought several packs of sleeping pills with her and took at least one entire pack with her when she left her car.

She had her Third auto accident as a result of alcohol in less than 3 weeks.

She refused help from a local bus driver, and lied about calling AAA. She pleaded with the bus driver to NOT contact the police.

She took all of the alcohol (except the damaged box of wine) and one pack of sleeping pills with her and intentionally left the scene of her car accident ON FOOT in less than 10 minutes with the intent of avoiding the police and help.

When her Father and Sister were contacted by the police immediately after she went missing BOTH her Father's and Sister's reaction was that she likely walked into the woods to commit suicide, ie: "did the squaw walk."

So based on the totality of those facts and circumstances, can you seriously not understand that she could have run away and died on those woods?

I mean I know all those facts you're stating and I've researched and thought about the suicide thing, so it's not a new theory to me. You and I just think differently about the facts of the case that we do have, no one knows for sure.
Suicide is obviously very complicated and not easily predicted no matter what signs you think she had. Now, I'm not saying not possible, but it is lower in probability of possible events in my mind. As with any case, nothing is certain and anything is possible.


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[Caffeine]

How familiar was she with the area where she vanished? She may not have seen trees and thought "hey those are deep dark woods where I will easily get lost in" - I grew up in the 'burbs and none of the woods near me were all that big. You could pop in for a few minutes and walk out the other side, maybe find an old barn to sleep off the alcohol in. Rural folk may think woods go on forever, Maura grew up not far from Boston.

She was fairly familiar with NH, as she and her dad took many trips up to the mountains and the surrounding areas. She may have grew up close to Boston but New England is small; the landscape changes quickly in a short drive.

 

[PaulR]

She was fairly familiar with NH, as she and her dad took many trips up to the mountains and the surrounding areas. She may have grew up close to Boston but New England is small; the landscape changes quickly in a short drive.

NH may be a small state but she may not have been familiar with that specific road, at least driving it alone compared to having her father drive her (who was probably driving during the day, and not driving intoxicated.)

 

[The Farm]

NH may be a small state but she may not have been familiar with that specific road, at least driving it alone compared to having her father drive her (who was probably driving during the day, and not driving intoxicated.)

That is correct Paul. On a cold dark winter night any of those roads can become unfamilar, you have deer jumping out in front of you and many times it can be just plain hard to see. NH is a small state with some vast heavily wooded terrain but people have perished in much less wooded areas. All the elements come into play, hypothermia, fear etc. for something bad to happen.
She might have remembered that old barn not far from the crash site but I could not say if she even really knew where she was after spinning out and just started running after her encounter with Butch. And have no idea how many times she even travelled that particular road. Night time changes everything.

 

[Ibiz]

So possible this was a last straw and Maura took the drink and the pills from the car and decided she couldn't fight anymore. From what I can tell though this type of pill would not be a sure-fire choice for suicide and I think she would have known that. So I don't think she was driving such a long way with the prior intent to commit suicide, unless of course she had other stronger medications.

Unless she planned on jumping off a mountain. I think if she did commit sucide, she wanted to do it in an area where she would not be found.