NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 6

[McSpy]

"About 10 minutes later, a Haverhill police officer, and then a New Hampshire State Police trooper, arrived on the scene"

I haven't seen any public info on this. The cops, who were at the scene prior to the trooper's arrival, may know.

 

[search]

“other times, I think she is still in the woods.”

She's not in the woods. Not to the extent she wandered into the woods on her own.
It's a criminal investigation.

“Could you explain? What powers? And how do they push you aside?”

The Investigative powers. They will not answer questions. I’ve had contact numerous times. They say they "do not want to compromise the investigation".

This is being treated as a criminal investigation. My question is, What "crime" has taken place? If this is not merely a "Missing persons" case, then what crime has taken place? Kidnapping? Murder? Based on what evidence?

As for the direction of the State Trooper showing up on scene, The search was conducted in a westerly direction that night by now Chief Smith and Atwood. The construction worker states he saw Maura as he was traveling from the East. If the Trooper came from the east, how did he miss seeing Maura? That is why knowing which direction the Trooper came from is important. Also, just as important in knowing, just which direction did he come from? West has been eliminated by the search. That leaves, East, South and North.

 

[gnomony]

She's not in the woods. Not to the extent she wandered into the woods on her own. It's a criminal investigation.

I don't understand what you are saying. The nature of the investigation has nothing to do with the location of the missing person. If she was taken to the woods, she's in the woods. If she went on her own, she's in the woods. If neither, then she's not.

“Could you explain? What powers? And how do they push you aside?” The Investigative powers. They will not answer questions.

My request is that you be specific.

This is being treated as a criminal investigation. My question is, What "crime" has taken place? If this is not merely a "Missing persons" case, then what crime has taken place? Kidnapping? Murder? Based on what evidence?

At the very least, there is evidence of leaving the scene of an accident.

Withholding information is frustrating to lots of us, but is proper police procedure in most cases in which there might have been a crime involved. Whether it is necessary can usually be determined only in retrospect, after it is too late.

As for the direction of the State Trooper showing up on scene, The search was conducted in a westerly direction that night by now Chief Smith and Atwood. The construction worker states he saw Maura as he was traveling from the East. If the Trooper came from the east, how did he miss seeing Maura?

Good point.

 

[search]

"My request is that you be specific."
I wish I could be more specific but information that has been shared with me I can't share with others. I have received a "this information is only intended for you" request and I must adhere to that. I do suspect the investigators have far more information than they have released. The reason I state this is, I have eliminated certain aspects in this case by asking questions in a round about manner. Meaning answers that have been given to me could only point in a specific direction. One of the biggest problems I have with this case is the non release of information. If this case is being teated as a criminal case I can understand withholding information so as to not compromise the case. If this is being treated as a missing persons case without foul play then all the information would be put in public view for all to see to help fing a missing person. So, if this is a criminal investigation, which we all know it is, What is the official classification of the crime?

 

[McSpy]

“other times, I think she is still in the woods.”

She's not in the woods. Not to the extent she wandered into the woods on her own.
It's a criminal investigation.

“Could you explain? What powers? And how do they push you aside?”

The Investigative powers. They will not answer questions. I’ve had contact numerous times. They say they "do not want to compromise the investigation".

This is being treated as a criminal investigation. My question is, What "crime" has taken place? If this is not merely a "Missing persons" case, then what crime has taken place? Kidnapping? Murder? Based on what evidence?

As for the direction of the State Trooper showing up on scene, The search was conducted in a westerly direction that night by now Chief Smith and Atwood. The construction worker states he saw Maura as he was traveling from the East. If the Trooper came from the east, how did he miss seeing Maura? That is why knowing which direction the Trooper came from is important. Also, just as important in knowing, just which direction did he come from? West has been eliminated by the search. That leaves, East, South and North.

The trooper, who stopped at the accident scene, didn't call in for 2 hours, which seems suspicious to me. Although, I suspect not a lot is going on in NH on a Monday night in February. One thing though, if a lot was not going on, why not drive around and look for Maura????
I'm pretty sure he can only reach the accident scene from the east or west.

I'm not sure if the criteria for a criminal investigation means that the reason for Maura's disappearance has been definitely been labeled a crime. Possibly, they just don't know what happened to her, but the possibility of something like an abduction is high on their list of reasons why she is missing. This is all my opinion. They may have more info than we are aware of, but don't want to jeopardize a potential arrest and conviction.

 

[McSpy]

"My request is that you be specific."
I wish I could be more specific but information that has been shared with me I can't share with others. I have received a "this information is only intended for you" request and I must adhere to that. I do suspect the investigators have far more information than they have released. The reason I state this is, I have eliminated certain aspects in this case by asking questions in a round about manner. Meaning answers that have been given to me could only point in a specific direction. One of the biggest problems I have with this case is the non release of information. If this case is being teated as a criminal case I can understand withholding information so as to not compromise the case. If this is being treated as a missing persons case without foul play then all the information would be put in public view for all to see to help fing a missing person. So, if this is a criminal investigation, which we all know it is, What is the official classification of the crime?

I hate, hate, hate to say this on a public board, but possible homicide at the very least. This only makes sense, since she has been missing for over 6 years. Again, this is my opinion only.

 

[McSpy]

There is a possibility the State Trooper came from the east, if he was patrolling east of the accident and responded to Maura's accident, because the trooper on the interstate (west) was busy with a call or traffic stop. Only LE knows this info. Generally, State Troopers patrol the interstates and the local police patrol the roads in their jurisdiction.

The question was why he responded, if he wasn't going to do anything? Was he privy to the info that Maura had left the accident scene and was missing? Did he hear this on the radio or did the local cop tell him this info when he came by?

I have the impression that he showed up way after the local cops had everything under control.

My question: Do the state cops hear radio calls that local cops hear?

 

[Darkness]

I remember a couple of years after Maura went missing, Maura's dad frustrated with the investigation went to court to have all LE info released to him. The prosecution told the judge that there was a 75% chance of an arrest and LE didn't want the investigation compromised.

The judge ruled in favor of keeping the info sealed.

It sounds like LE just needs a couple of pieces of info that only the suspect would know to make an arrest.

 

[thedude]

this case has bothered me since i seen it about 1 year ago on the show disappeared
has anybody been to this area it reminds me of a small town that keeps itself tightknit including the local cops who seemed like they drop the ball on this case or someone is covering up something.

seriously here was atwood ever looked at before he is able to leave for florida? how about the contracter?how about the knife with the blood did the police ever say who's blood it was?was there really a guy who died but before he did he gave the dad the knife? how far could this girl get with all these supposed people looking for her right away? so many questions and someone has a answer wonder who?

 

[thesaint]

interesting potential theory from elsewhere on the web:

There is a tow truck driver that lives close enough that i think of him as a person to think about. This person lives near the rest area where Barbara Agnue was taken and was publically involved in the knife murder of a 14 year old girl Heidi Martin. His truck surely could have been the one that took Barabra Agnue to where she was found that had to have been a sizeable vehicle that is not a driveable road to most people.

It is possible that some of these missing women may have long since been crushed in junk cars and melted down and this driver just happens to own a junk yard just a few miles north of white river junction.

Possible scenario:

Tow truck driver is somehow alerted to the situation--maybe monitoring chatter on police bands for potential tows, taking calls from AAA or other road side assistances services, etc--heads out for the accident site and before arriving at the site of the accident meets MM on the road and picks her up.

It's possible that the TT driver is monitoring police radio chatter and realizes that MM wandered off from the accident site before police arrived. Or MM asks not to return immed to the accident site for whatever reasons (intoxication or whatever).

 

[McSpy]

interesting potential theory from elsewhere on the web:



Possible scenario:

Tow truck driver is somehow alerted to the situation--maybe monitoring chatter on police bands for potential tows, taking calls from AAA or other road side assistances services, etc--heads out for the accident site and before arriving at the site of the accident meets MM on the road and picks her up.

It's possible that the TT driver is monitoring police radio chatter and realizes that MM wandered off from the accident site before police arrived. Or MM asks not to return immed to the accident site for whatever reasons (intoxication or whatever).

This is quite possible, but Maura wanted to get away from the accident--not back to the scene. Although, the tow truck driver could have lied to her. I do think LE should check this out. I've heard of cases where EMTs were caught stealing money from wallets of the dead or injured at car wrecks. Creeps can be anywhere.

 

[OldSteve]

Sadly, the 7-year mark is fast approaching...

Thought the articles in:
http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is-missing.html
gives a good account.

So many questions remain...

What was taking place in her life/mind in the days before she left?
Why was she so upset late at night while doing her job at school?
Why take her rundown car on a trip of this sort, and NOT tell anyone?
Why plan a trip where you are going to have to check-in at night in a remote area?
Why did it appear her car was moved from the real crash site and backed into where it was found.
Why was a cloth from her emgerency kit fround in the car tail pipe?
Why chance drinking and driving after so recent an accident with father's car accident?

One thing, if someone can answer - I heard it mentioned there was an Outback not far away from where she left her car.... could she have seen it by going a bit further down the road? If so, that seems a likely place to head to...

on this kind of trip

 

[gaia227]

As much as I don't want to believe it, I think there is still a chance Maura could have died from exposure or was wounded after wandering into the woods and she has not been found. I know the area has been searched extensively but it happens. Christopher Robin, a teenager, disappeared after work one night, there were sightings of him called in from all over because he had a distinctive car with lots of bumper stickers sending his parents traveling all over the country to follow up and it turned out he had driven off the road on his way home, just a few miles from his house. The area where his car was had been searched several times by foot and helicopter and it just wasn't seen - and that was not just a body it was an SUV and it went un-detected for at least two years.
That said, there are also about a thousand other scenario's that seem feasible as well. One of the more intriguing aspects, for me, is that LE is refusing to release all the file info to Maura's father and that a judge ruled in LE's favor. If they did not have much I could see why LE would not want to release it for fear of being ridiculed but I don't think a judge would rule against the family if that were the case. It seems most likely LE DOES have something and they feel like if it got out it could jeoporadize their case. LE with-hold things all the time. For instance Tara Grinstead's disappearence - LE had a glove with DNA on it and they waited for a long time to release that info to the public. Maybe someday there will be some new info released in Maura's case. Let us hope, anyway.

 

[jamesdoe]

I have a question. If The police officer that investigated the accident (crime) scene Cecil Smith car #h2 and the cottage witness driving by saw a police car #1 nose to nose to Maura's before cecil smith arrived, WHO was driving the #1 car?

 

[McSpy]

I have a question. If The police officer that investigated the accident (crime) scene Cecil Smith car #h2 and the cottage witness driving by saw a police car #1 nose to nose to Maura's before cecil smith arrived, WHO was driving the #1 car?

Was Cecil Smith the first officer on the scene? The one who asked the bus driver where the driver (Maura Murray) went, because she disappeared from the scene?

 

[McSpy]

I have a question. If The police officer that investigated the accident (crime) scene Cecil Smith car #h2 and the cottage witness driving by saw a police car #1 nose to nose to Maura's before cecil smith arrived, WHO was driving the #1 car?

From what i have read, Cecil Smith was the first to arrive on the scene.


http://caledonianrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=43893&TM=51756.1

This is an excerpt from above link:

"Atwood then drove home, parked his bus and went inside his house to call 911. Less than 10 minutes later, he said Sgt. Cecil Smith of the Haverhill Police Department came to the door of his bus and asked if he had seen someone at the car. Murray had disappeared."

 

[gaia227]

Are you referring to Westman saying he thought he saw someone smoking? The South Shore Express article which has been posted on here several times addresses this. According to the Westmans, they heard the crash and looked out their window and thought they saw someone standing near the back of the car. They disagree with eachother regarding the red glowing light. Mr. Westman said he thought it looked like a man smoking a cigarette. Mrs. Westman said she thought it looked like a red light from a cell phone. According to the article they disagree with eachother pretty passionately on this.
The thing that struck me about them saying they saw someone standing towards the back of the car is the fact that a rag was found stuffed in the tail-pipe (which is just one more totally bizarre detail - WHY?) - was that what this person, Maura or someone else, was doing? I have often wondered if LE could get anything off of that rag. Where did it come from? What kind of rag was it? Like a washcloth, a towel or just a beat up old rag? Were there any fingerprints on it? How dirty was it? Did it look like it had been in the tail pipe for a long time or was it relatively clean?

 

[jamesdoe]

Gaia, you need to read the post referenced by lady gray. This explains my question.

 

[Dejasade]

Are you referring to Westman saying he thought he saw someone smoking? The South Shore Express article which has been posted on here several times addresses this. According to the Westmans, they heard the crash and looked out their window and thought they saw someone standing near the back of the car. They disagree with eachother regarding the red glowing light. Mr. Westman said he thought it looked like a man smoking a cigarette. Mrs. Westman said she thought it looked like a red light from a cell phone. According to the article they disagree with eachother pretty passionately on this.
The thing that struck me about them saying they saw someone standing towards the back of the car is the fact that a rag was found stuffed in the tail-pipe (which is just one more totally bizarre detail - WHY?) - was that what this person, Maura or someone else, was doing? I have often wondered if LE could get anything off of that rag. Where did it come from? What kind of rag was it? Like a washcloth, a towel or just a beat up old rag? Were there any fingerprints on it? How dirty was it? Did it look like it had been in the tail pipe for a long time or was it relatively clean?

Was the rag in the tailpipe verified, or was this a rumour?

 

[belimom]

I remember a couple of years after Maura went missing, Maura's dad frustrated with the investigation went to court to have all LE info released to him. The prosecution told the judge that there was a 75% chance of an arrest and LE didn't want the investigation compromised.

The judge ruled in favor of keeping the info sealed.

It sounds like LE just needs a couple of pieces of info that only the suspect would know to make an arrest.

Yes, and I also recall that there are alot of politics in place between the LE and the judicial system involved with this case. I don't post on this thread often but I have read every thread, every site I could find on this case so I cannot tell you where I read that. I can look for it (but not right now) - maybe someone else recalls that as well...