NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 7

[scoops]

OldSteve,

I am more of the she "Succumbed" to the elements" believer than the other two scenarios.

It is believed that she made an attempt to get her car parked safely off the road (although I also believe at first she was trying like heck to get her car unstuck and get out of dodge before anyone even knew she had wrecked) it is also believed that whenever she did depart her car she took the bottles of alcohol with her (in her backpack) left her school books in the car along with some of her personal belongings (necklace, stuffed monkey), secured the car by locking it and then split (all within a quick amount of time).

My theory is that at that moment she was not looking for help. Because help was all around her. It was only 7:15 p.m. at night, there were houses very close to the wreck, she had options on which house to go to if she was leary about one or two of them.

One of the houses is literally a few steps away from her wreck. I have done a google 3D panoramic view of the wreck site and it is stunning how close this one house is to where her car was. It would've taken her less than 20 seconds to walk to the front door of this house if she wanted help.

I think she was hoping that once the commotion died down and all traces of alcohol had left her system, then she would go back to the car and deal with the situation. She may have also been roaming around to try and get cell phone reception because I do believe she really wanted to get a hold of AAA. If they came out and towed her car and no police were involved than that would be a win-win situation for her.

I think while waiting that night out, she either believed she could make it in the woods or she ended up wandering too far and got lost. I think she eventually succumbed to the elements in some way or another and her body has just never been found.

 

[scoops]

now she could've very well decided to go to a house and seek help and just happened to unluckily pick the wrong one (Contractor for instance) and that would be the only way I see foul play as a possibility. Just looking at the google map thing (which is really cool by the way you actually can move up and down the road and really see a clear picture of the houses in the area, woods etc) but just looking at google, honestly the contractors house-trailer looks pretty creepy even in the daytime, I don't know why Maura would choose to go to his house and not the others that were in a much safer appearing part of the highway by the weathered barn.

 

[scoops]

Guys and gals, why would she hitchike????

She did not know that particular area

you need a ride. Yeah. Well where too. Uhhhh...

Where is she going to go?
She also would've scooped up all of her valuables from her car. Yet the only thing she is believed to have taken with her is her backpack, money drivers license and bottles of alcohol (minus the box of wine which was all smashed up and would be to much to lug around). Why take the bottles of alcohol unless you want to hide them from being used against you by police.

there is no way she didn't want to come back to her car and I don't think she wanted to get too far away to begin with.

 

[scoops]

Well, it had been awhile since I checked out google maps (which I think everyone should (type in the address 466 Wild Ammonoosuc Rd., Bath, NH) and it takes you right to the scene of the accident. the address is actually for the weathered barn antique store owned by the westman's (witnesses who called police about maura's wreck) Maura's wreck is a good 100-yards east from the weatherd barn. One in google maps and at that location, If you zoom in it in all the way it will switch over to a full 360 degree camera shot of the entire area like you are standing right in the road.

The westman's house is actually a little bit further away than I had thought from the accident. but still within two minutes of Maura if she wanted to go seek help.

 

[OldSteve]

Scoops - Lots of good info and thought!

Early Feb, just after 7pm, would be getting dark if not already dark... that night wasn't very cold though, low 30's upper 20's twenties IIRC from what McSpy had said once...

If she scummed hiding in the woods, I think something would have been found since FM especially searched the area allot.

If I were her I, and wanted to hideout over-nite, I would try to go back to a place I had seen along the way that looked empty/safe and I could get to... heading back right away to the west, she would run into LE heading east to the scene (unless she hid in the woods till they had left and then went west, in the pitch black night...

 

[scoops]

Old Steve, that is an excellent theory that she might've retracked back west and a very possible conclusion at that.

I just can't get past the fact that she didn't attempt to go to the westman's house. There is a street light around there, an antique store right across the street. To me, if I broke down around there and didn't know where I should turn for help, I would take my chances with the westman's house. I would be leary about walking off furtther east, because it does appear that the further you go east, the darker it gets. And like you pointed out, she just came from west-bound, so she may feel a little more confident about heading back that way.

 

[shefner]

Who would she call? Definitely not dad. Who? I think she was fleeing....
but I can't get a grip on it.

 

[McSpy]

At the risk of sounding pedantic - I was part of a paranormal investigative team for a few years and 'orbs' are something anyone should be very skeptical of. In most cases orbs caught on camera is the refraction of light from the camera on floating pollen or dust. There are some really good videos on youtube of paranormal investigators shaking out a blanket or shaking a flower and then taking a photo where you see orbs everywhere. That is the more extreme scenario, of course - there are also videos/pics of someone doing something as simple as rubbing up against something or even just walking, stirring up dust or pollen and in most cases and orb is nothing other than light refratction off of particles in the air. I know I sound like a big downer - I used to believe in the orb phenomena until I started working with several paranormal investigative groups and started educating myself and seeing how easily it is to mistake an orb for something mundane. But the positive of that is; if you are aware of how easily it is to take a photograph of an dust orb, or a photo with a piece of hair hanging over the lens creating a bright streak of light, or what a bug looks like when light is refracting off of it, it is much easier to spot something anamolous in your photos which is none of those things and warrants further investiation...........
Anyway, sorry, I don't want to hi-jack Maura's thread......and I promise I am not trying to be condescending or skeptical of everything. I am not. I do believe in the paranormal which is why I have been active in the process. With shows like My Ghost Story, where they constantly show orbs (aka dust particles) floating around, passing them off as ghosts a large majority of the public is being mislead - of course the show wants 'evidence' they can show their viewers and I am sure the producers get countless videos of people who have shot 'orbs' and even go so far as to point out faces in the orbs, our brains are wired to seek out familar patterns in things, especially faces, so it is not that surprising people are able to recognize facial patterns in something like an orb. Sometimes they do show anomalies which are truly
interesting.....and that is why I continue watch. I am a member of an online forum called Unexplained Mysteries which has a lot of good and bad stuff about orbs. It is quite controversial because people want to believe they have witness something paranormal - especially people who are seeking it out.

My apologies, this was such a long post, I didn't intend for it to be. And this thread is not about what orbs are, it is about where and what happened to Maura. And THAT is way more baffling than orbs!

No worries. I agree with you. At one time, I was heavy into photography and what you say is very true. Orbs around a sand pit is probably sand blowing up. Sort of like sunlight catching dust floating next to a window. There is a lot more floating around than the eye can see, but the flash catches it. I don't know what to think about the guy on facebook and his claims, but if he has more than orbs, perhaps it is worth a look at that sandpit pond. However, he could be just a nut.

 

[telemag]

This case has been bugging me for a long time. I'm not 100% sure that what was troubling Mara wasn't somehow what got her into trouble that night. I mean I think it possible that the second car wreck was the last straw as far as her seeing herself as a failure. Seems like she was such a perfectionist that maybe this event made her decide to just walk off. Does anyone know if there are any real high mountains in that area that she could have attempted to go to? The one thing that she did seem to take with her was the alcohol. Why would someone do that and leave the wine behind? Maybe because it was open and the wine was not, but at the same time she could have said the other bottles broke too, that being a reason for some of the liquor being gone. I also wonder about that late night call that she got. Was there any chance that she found out that she was pregnant? Being in nursing school and knowing people maybe she got someone to rush a blood test and had them call her as soon as it was confirmed, that being the reason for such a late night call. Maybe that is why she was so anxious to talk to her Dad that night. I personally have a known a couple girls who when they found out they were preggo were pretty hysterical. This would have changed her entire life around enough to make her want to leave for a while to sort things out. No one in their right mind would leave their car in such cold weather. Does anyone know for sure what the temp was that night. I have heard anywhere from 0 to 33, but on one seems to know for sure. I really find it hard to believe that she was picked up by someone unless she was so cold she felt she didn't have a choice.

 

[McSpy]

OldSteve,

I am more of the she "Succumbed" to the elements" believer than the other two scenarios.

It is believed that she made an attempt to get her car parked safely off the road (although I also believe at first she was trying like heck to get her car unstuck and get out of dodge before anyone even knew she had wrecked) it is also believed that whenever she did depart her car she took the bottles of alcohol with her (in her backpack) left her school books in the car along with some of her personal belongings (necklace, stuffed monkey), secured the car by locking it and then split (all within a quick amount of time).

My theory is that at that moment she was not looking for help. Because help
was all around her. It was only 7:15 p.m. at night, there were houses very close to the wreck, she had options on which house to go to if she was leary about one or two of them.

One of the houses is literally a few steps away from her wreck. I have done a google 3D panoramic view of the wreck site and it is stunning how close this one house is to where her car was. It would've taken her less than 20 seconds to walk to the front door of this house if she wanted help.

I think she was hoping that once the commotion died down and all traces of alcohol had left her system, then she would go back to the car and deal with the situation. She may have also been roaming around to try and get cell phone reception because I do believe she really wanted to get a hold of AAA. If
they came out and towed her car and no police were involved than that would be a win-win situation for her.

I think while waiting that night out, she either believed she could make it in the woods or she ended up wandering too far and got lost. I think she eventually succumbed to the elements in some way or another and her body has just never been found.

That is one of the possibilities for me too. It is so wooded, rugged and isolated there that a body may never be found. One thing though, there was about 2 feet of snow on the ground at the time. She would have been up to her knees in snow, if she went into the woods. Unless, she went into the woods miles up the road outside of the search area, her foot prints from the road through the woods should have been found. Yet, maybe they missed them. She could have walked up a driveway of private property and hid back there. In that scenario, her footprints could have been mistaken for the home owners. JMO

 

[McSpy]

This case has been bugging me for a long time. I'm not 100% sure that what was troubling Mara wasn't somehow what got her into trouble that night. I mean I think it possible that the second car wreck was the last straw as far as her seeing herself as a failure. Seems like she was such a perfectionist that maybe this event made her decide to just walk off. Does anyone know if there are any real high mountains in that area that she could have attempted to go to? The one thing that she did seem to take with her was the alcohol. Why would someone do that and leave the wine behind? Maybe because it was open and the wine was not, but at the same time she could have said the other bottles broke too, that being a reason for some of the liquor being gone. I also wonder about that late night call that she got. Was there any chance that she found out that she was pregnant? Being in nursing school and knowing people maybe she got someone to rush a blood test and had them call her as soon as it was confirmed, that being the reason for such a late night call. Maybe that is why she was so anxious to talk to her
Dad that night. I personally have a known a couple girls who when they found out they were preggo were pretty hysterical. This would have changed her entire life around enough to make her want to leave for a while to sort things out. No one in their right mind would leave their car in such cold weather. Does anyone know for sure what the temp was that night. I have heard anywhere from 0 to 33, but on one seems to know for sure. I really find it hard to believe that she was picked up by someone unless she was so cold she felt she didn't have a choice.

To me, she was definitely emotional. The reason is a mystery. I don't think she was thinking clearly, so her decisions after the car accident may not make sense to us. She could have just grabbed the alcohol, so she could get rid of it or to ultimately drink it. Maybe, she was afraid to walk up to a house close by, because they may point her out to police, since she had been drinking while driving. The proof being the busted wine box splattered in the crashed car. She seemed to have been working on impulse since crashing her dad's car and it only lead to one bad decision after another. I can see her accepting a ride, if the guy seemed clean cut and nice, but I can also see her succumbing to the elements, if she had stayed outdoors for a long time. Supposedly, it was a mild night for NH in the winter. It was around 33F, but I don't think she was prepared to spend alot of time outdoors that evening. She may not have had enough on to keep the cold from getting to her. The other thing is that maybe she DID go up to a house and something happened to her there. Perhaps, the house wasn't by the accident scene, but a mile or a few miles up the road.

 

[OldSteve]

:welcome: telemag

 

[McSpy]

:welcome: telemag

Thanks OldSteve!

Welcome Telemag! Stick around! We could use some fresh insight!

 

[telemag]

Hey guys, thanks so much for the warm welcome. OK I gotta say that the more I think about it the more I think that Maura found out the she was pregnant. This would seem the most logical reason to be so hysterical that night she got the call and why she may have wanted to talk to her Dad that night after drinking with her friends. She may have been trying to muster up the courage. I also think that she may have had a concussion from hitting her head on the wind shield and she may have walked off to somewhere and fell asleep never to wake up. This happened to a guy that I knew. He was drinking and fell and hit his head. Instead of going to the Dr's he said he was fine and fell asleep at his friends house and a couple hours later they found him dead. I am not so sure how dense the woods are around that area, but from what I gather they where pretty thick. Thoughts?

 

[McSpy]

Hey guys, thanks so much for the warm welcome. OK I gotta say that the more I think about it the more I think that Maura found out the she was pregnant. This would seem the most logical reason to be so hysterical that night she got the call and why she may have wanted to talk to her Dad that night after drinking with her friends. She may have been trying to muster up the courage. I also think that she may have had a concussion from hitting her head on the wind shield and she may have walked off to somewhere and fell asleep never to wake up. This happened to a guy that I knew. He was drinking and fell and hit his head. Instead of going to the Dr's he said he was fine and fell asleep at his friends house and a couple hours later they found him dead. I am not so sure how dense the woods are around that area, but from what I gather they where pretty thick. Thoughts?

Yes, the area is thick with woods. Her accident happened on the edge of a The White Mountains National Forest. Supposedly, she had headed east into the forest after her accident. I have often wondered if she had hit her head too, because her car suffered 2 impacts. Her airbag would have went off on the initial impact, but I wonder if it deflated by the 2nd impact. She could have hit her head, if the airbag deflated. Perhaps, it stayed inflated for the duration of both crashes, but I don't know how they work in scenarios with several impacts. I wish I knew the answer. Supposedly, her car went down into a ditch where it hit a snowbank on the 2nd impact. I think this angle could have caused her to lurch or dive forward enough to hit the top area of the driver's side part of the windshield.
Yet, I think she was wearing her seatbelt and the police believe her accident was minor. She could have easily survived with the seatbelt on and with a deployed airbag. Saturns were also known to have been pretty safe cars. People had walked away unscathed from them after horrendous crashes. However, if she hit her head, because of a freak angle or other reason, she
may not have noticed her injury until the adrenaline had worn off. I think the shivering the bus driver witnessed could also have been the shock and adrenaline Maura was experiencing from the crash. I have also heard that the airbag itself could crack a windshield.

 

[McSpy]

I'm starting to get 2nd thoughts about the pregnancy possibility. I would think she would have confided with a sibling or close friend first before approaching her dad on the subject.

 

[telemag]

I'm starting to get 2nd thoughts about the pregnancy possibility. I would think she would have confided with a sibling or close friend first before approaching her dad on the subject.

Possibly, but she may have not had ample time to run it by anyone. How many days went by from the crash and the phone call? Didn't her Dad come to visit right after the call? They seemed pretty close so maybe she wanted to run it by him first? Also it seemed that Maura was kind of a loner. She seemed to have a lot of friends, but none of them seemed real close to her. On the night she wrecked her Dad's car she mentioned to her friends that she wanted to drive the car over to the hotel that night but she never mentioned why. Most college kids who are out having fun with there friends are not thinking of their parents. Something odd was going on with her. I remember seeing the last email she wrote her boyfriend and she said something like "hey stud" when she addressed him. I obviously don't know how they talked to each other, but that seems kind of an impersonal way to talked to someone that you miss and love. It seemed a little distant to me as far as how you would address a loved one. I know a lot of people on here say that what happened before the wreck means nothing, but I say it does and for me it goes to her state of mind like I had said before. Maybe this wreck was the last straw in a events of failures in her mind and maybe in her inebriated state she decided on running away and got herself into trouble out in the elements.

 

[telemag]

Sorry but still thinking about this. The rag in the tail pipe? I may be wrong on this so forgive me if so, but didn't her car spin around so that the on coming traffic in her lane would have seen the front of her car first? If so what reason would there be to put a rag in her tailpipe? One might think suicide, but I don't think this would be sufficient enough,

 

[McSpy]

Possibly, but she may have not had ample time to run it by anyone. How many days went by from the crash and the phone call? Didn't her Dad come to visit right after the call? They seemed pretty close so maybe she wanted to run it by him first? Also it seemed that Maura was kind of a loner. She seemed to have a lot of friends, but none of them seemed real close to her. On the night she wrecked her Dad's car she mentioned to her friends that she wanted to drive the car over to the hotel that night but she never mentioned why. Most college kids who are out having fun with there friends are not thinking of their parents. Something odd was going on with her. I remember seeing the last email she wrote her boyfriend and she said something like "hey stud" when she addressed him. I obviously don't know how they talked to each other, but that seems kind of an impersonal way to talked to someone that you miss and love. It seemed a little distant to me as far as how you would address a loved one. I know a lot of people on here say that what happened before the wreck means nothing, but I say it does and for
me it goes to her state of mind like I had said before. Maybe this wreck was the last straw in a events of failures in her mind and maybe in her inebriated state she decided on running away and got herself into trouble out in the elements.

I do think she was very emotional, which suggests she was not in a good state of mind. To me, the reason isn't that important, because we already know she was not in a good state of mind, and it lead to her impulse trip to NH. She also took her car, which was only operating on 3 cylinders. It was in rough shape. The reason her dad was in town was to buy her a newer car, because she was afraid of driving the Saturn. IMO, I don't think she was suicidal (as LE suggested in the beginning) and had that intention for her trip up to NH, but I believe all her impulsive decisions along the way lead to where we are now. JMO

 

[McSpy]

Sorry but still thinking about this. The rag in the tail pipe? I may be wrong on this so forgive me if so, but didn't her car spin around so that the on coming traffic in her lane would have seen the front of her car first? If so what reason would there be to put a rag in her tailpipe? One might think suicide, but I don't think this would be sufficient enough,

You are correct. Her car was facing the other direction, but it is possible that it was at an angle where the rear of the car was sticking up into the road. Supposedly, the car was in a ditch and against a snowbank. I do have a couple of theories on the rag in the tailpipe. One of them is Maura sticking it into the tailpipe, because she noticed it on the ground after she closed the trunk. So, she just stuck it the pipe to retrieve later, because she didn't want to take the time to open the trunk again. It could have been done in haste and without much thought. Personally, I have ruled out the rag as something important in her disappearance. I could be wrong, but so far I think it is far fetched to think someone else put it there to hurt or kidnap her. JMO