NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

[scoops]

Athletes are used to packing light. Sometimes I pack three sets of work out gear, a sweater, a couple of decent pullover shirts and what I'm wearing. My favorite workout pants are black and can pass for nice knit pants with the right top and sweater or jacket. You don't need all that much if you are going to run, hike, and sit in front of the fire. I also do laundry every day or two if the hotel or condo has laundry.

The tooth whitener really convinces me she wasn't considering suicide.

To be technical, it was simply colgate toothpaste that fred was referring too. You can see it in the picture that I provided the link to in an earlier post.

(Whether he intentionally meant to mis-lead or not, with his statement, someone
will have to ask him?)

I believe in the suicide theory and I think I have provided plenty of sources of information that at least align up with that theory. (Although, I will be the first to admit, it is a theory and not anything proven fact at this point).


I do want to make it clear that I have never thought the plan for maura was to hop into her car, drive to a mountain, get out of her car and go off herself all in one night.

I think she knew she wouldn't be getting to her final destiantion before dark (so she had planned on spending the night somewhere in something (hotel, motel, condiminium, etc.)

I think she was going to utilize the very next day after she had arrived to whereever she was headed to take on whatever challenge (whether temporarily or permanent) she had in my mind. I do think she planned on drinking the night of that she arrived to whatever destination she was intending on going.

I also have always believed that her wreck on the night she went missing was unplanned. Therefore I don't think she stuck to any pre-planned script and had to improvise quickly on the fly.... I have always found it telling that she took a backpack and bottles of alcohol with her from her wreck, yet left all other belongings behind.

 

[McSpy]

This is a repost from last september.

I try not to just throw willy-nilly theories around like maura was sleeping with her dad or maura had bullimia or maura's dad likely killed her.


I kind of try and use the information that is out there and available to begin the narrative on what happened to maura and not make huge leaps or guesses on things that will sound good in a book.

I didn't just come up with the mountain theory out of my behind.


Here is what I posted back in September. I still may be way off base and I would be OK with that. I would love to come up with a new theory about maura and not think that she took her own life. I really would.



More on Maura's possible destinations and an article excerpt in which Billy's mom addresses something Fred had chillingly mentioned to all of his children.


This is an excerpt from an article done by the New Hampshire Union Leader in 2007, quoting Fred Murray

Murray has many fine memories of runs and hikes with Maura, but one of the best was the autumn before she disappeared.

"We were concluding our collection of 4,000-footers. I was doing the last three I hadn't done." One day, they hiked to Owl's Head; the next day 23 miles on three 4,000-foot peaks.
"Then she whipped out of her knapsack for finishing my 48th, a Long Trail Ale, and handed it to me on the summit of West Bond.
" It was typical Maura," Murray said.

This was just months before Maura went missing that her and her father hit up these mountains in the White Mountains (the place Maura went missing from)

Here is another excerpt that I had already posted on here before but will do again
This is from an article done by a boston globe correspondent.

"Murray's father said he also discovered a note card that mentioned Burlington among many personal belongings she had packed in her car. The two last visited the northern Vermont city on Columbus Day weekend, when they hiked nearby Camel's Hump Mountain and Mount Mansfield."

This article was written just 12 days after Maura went missing. These mountains specifically Mount mansfield and camel's hump are in the stowe vermont area.

Concerning Maura's last minute map searches before she disappeared:
Notice she didn't have one specific place in mind which would kind of rule out the "meeting someone" theory. Stowe vermont is quite far from the White mountains (Just under three hours apart from one another). If Maura "had plans for a new life or plans to go somewhere specific" she wouldn't have been scrambling to find a place to go with such a variety in distance on the very same day she went missing.

Onto Fred and Sharon,
Just something to ponder and both Fred and Sharon have said publically that neither one of them believe Maura has taken her own life, but it is hard to get around this quote .

this excerpt from an article also came from the new hampshire leader union in 2007

Early on, her father, Fred Murray, briefly considered Maura may have committed suicide.

When police assembled the Murray and Rausch families to brief them on the investigation, Maura's father "moaned and rubbed his head and said, 'Oh, no,' " according to Sharon Rausch, the mother of Billy Rausch, Maura's then-boyfriend.

"I remember Fred said, 'I always have told the kids when I got old and worthless I was going to climb my favorite mountain with a bottle of Jack Daniels and drink myself to death.' That was emotional. He thought what if there was something he didn't know about," Rausch said.

I think most of us know she loved the mountains and hiking. It is no secret. I even found a very old post on a NH website by Maura when she was 16 years old about her love of the mountains and her favorite hiking trails. She used her mom's email to post.

You're saying she committed suicide. IMO, I don't think this was her initial plan when she left Amherst. I believe she went for a break to think things over. However, she could have freaked out after the NH accident and felt somewhat suicidal. I call it momentarily suicidal. This is a possibility. It is when you don't give a (fill in the blank) anymore. She felt like a big failure at that moment. If this was the case, I'm sure her outlook would have been different the next morning after she slept on it. All and all, I don't think she went up there to commit suicide. I don't think it was her intentions. JMO

 

[McSpy]

To be technical, it was simply colgate toothpaste that fred was referring too. You can see it in the picture that I provided the link to in an earlier post.

(Whether he intentionally meant to mis-lead or not, with his statement, someone
will have to ask him?)

I believe in the suicide theory and I think I have provided plenty of sources of information that at least align up with that theory. (Although, I will be the first to admit, it is a theory and not anything proven fact at this point).


I do want to make it clear that I have never thought the plan for maura was to hop into her car, drive to a mountain, get out of her car and go off herself all in one night.

I think she knew she wouldn't be getting to her final destiantion before dark (so she had planned on spending the night somewhere in something (hotel, motel, condiminium, etc.)

I think she was going to utilize the very next day after she had arrived to whereever she was headed to take on whatever challenge (whether temporarily or permanent) she had in my mind. I do think she planned on drinking the night of that she arrived to whatever destination she was intending on going.

I also have always believed that her wreck on the night she went missing was unplanned. Therefore I don't think she stuck to any pre-planned script and had to improvise quickly on the fly.... I have always found it telling that she took a backpack and bottles of alcohol with her from her wreck, yet left all other belongings behind.

According to Renner, supposedly the bottles of alcohol were accounted for by LE.
Supposedly, she didn't take them with her. Now, I don't know if this info is correct, because HE may have misinterpreted LE's answer. JMO

 

[scoops]

According to Renner, supposedly the bottles of alcohol were accounted for by LE.
Supposedly, she didn't take them with her. Now, I don't know if this info is correct, because HE may have misinterpreted LE's answer. JMO

James has been called out on that and to the best of my knowledge he has never cleared the matter up.


All alcohol accounted for to me means the officers know precisely the amount of alchohol maura had on her at the time she left amherst.

They found the box of wine still in maura's car and they found a receipt in her car for the remaining bottles of alcohol. (therefore all accounted for).

Why mention they found a receipt at all when you supposedly have the physical bottles of alcohol that you supposedly recovered and inventoried from her car. A receipt becomes a moot point when you can actually show the alcohol you recovered from her car.

 

[scoops]

I think most of us know she loved the mountains and hiking. It is no secret. I even found a very old post on a NH website by Maura when she was 16 years old about her love of the mountains and her favorite hiking trails. She used her mom's email to post.

You're saying she committed suicide. IMO, I don't think this was her initial plan when she left Amherst. I believe she went for a break to think things over. However, she could have freaked out after the NH accident and felt somewhat suicidal. I call it momentarily suicidal. This is a possibility. It is when you don't give a (fill in the blank) anymore. She felt like a big failure at that moment. If this was the case, I'm sure her outlook would have been different the next morning after she slept on it. All and all, I don't think she went up there to commit suicide. I don't think it was her intentions. JMO

You are 100 perecent correct.

It is no secret that maura loved the mountains.

But it is much more than that.

You point out yourself when explaining maura being momentairly suicidal that she could've just not given a xxxx anymore.

I would argue that driving a car on its last legs two and a half hours away into a national forest is the signs of someone not giving a xxxx anymore.


I would argue that packing your dorm up all nice and neat (for someone else to deal with) is the signs of someone ready to put a period by their current life and move on to something else.

if she is starting a new life over somwhere else, why not take your stuff with you? I have heard of people cutting ties with family and moving on, but cutting ties with your clothes and personal belonings too?? Seems amiss.

 

[McSpy]

James has been called out on that and to the best of my knowledge he has never cleared the matter up.


All alcohol accounted for to me means the officers know precisely the amount of alchohol maura had on her at the time she left amherst.

They found the box of wine still in maura's car and they found a receipt in her car for the remaining bottles of alcohol. (therefore all accounted for).

Why mention they found a receipt at all when you supposedly have the physical bottles of alcohol that you supposedly recovered and inventoried from her car. A receipt becomes a moot point when you can actually show the alcohol you recovered from her car.

It depends. A big bottle of Jack Daniels could be missing, but they have a receipt which tells them that everything she bought was found in the car. So far, I find the whole thing very unclear though. Renner should have asked if the actual bottles were found in the vehicle or if they were missing and only the receipt and the box of wine were found. Renner said all the alcohol was accounted for. Meaning to the reader, LE found the bottles in the car. She didn't take them with her. Yet, I'm not convinced he asked LE a clear question. Does this all matter? I don't know. Maybe Renner has it correct, but according to what he wrote, it seems unclear to me. JMO

 

[McSpy]

You are 100 perecent correct.

It is no secret that maura loved the mountains.

But it is much more than that.

You point out yourself when explaining maura being momentairly suicidal that she could've just not given a xxxx anymore.

I would argue that driving a car on its last legs two and a half hours away into a national forest is the signs of someone not giving a xxxx anymore.


I would argue that packing your dorm up all nice and neat (for someone else to deal with) is the signs of someone ready to put a period by their current life and move on to something else.

if she is starting a new life over somwhere else, why not take your stuff with you? I have heard of people cutting ties with family and moving on, but cutting ties with your clothes and personal belonings too?? Seems amiss.

If she was only going to be away for a few days or a week, she is not cutting ties with her possessions. We have to agree to disagree.

I believe the credit card fraud happened and she was petrified at the possibility of getting kicked out of the nursing program. She was probably waiting for a decision on it from the school. I think this is why she packed, or didn't totally unpack from winter break. She probably felt her life was unsettled and feeling awful about it too. JMO

 

[Kiln Wood]

]"She had hand written directions to Burlington in her car,"[/B] according to her father (in letter posted elsewhere in this thread). Burlington is NOT where you'd go to reach a high peak in the Green Mountains. It's lakefront. She would have driven through the mountains and left them behind by the time she got to Burlington.

I've been reading about MM for years now and don't recall anyone coming up with any hypothesis about why she would be carrying directions to Burlington. I lived there for many years and can't make a connection myself. Any ideas?

BBM

An idea crossed my mind when I read your post, and even though it's not feasible in February, how about the ferry crossing from Burlington to Port Kent? BTW I was in Burlington on March 16th, and I was amazed at the growth since I was last there in February 2003.

 

[scoops]

If she was only going to be away for a few days or a week, she is not cutting ties with her possessions. We have to agree to disagree.

I believe the credit card fraud happened and she was petrified at the possibility of getting kicked out of the nursing program. She was probably waiting for a decision on it from the school. I think this is why she packed, or didn't totally unpack from winter break. She probably felt her life was unsettled and feeling awful about it too. JMO

I believe you have a solid theory and not some half-baked claim being made with no true substance behind it like we have seen in some other instances.

I would argue that Maura was about to have the credit card charges dropped and therefore, she was in no current trouble at the time she disappeared.

And I would also wonder, that if maura was indeed still on the hook for troubles and still looking at being kicked out of the nursing program, then how could you be so dismmisive that (with her world crumbling around her) that maura wasn't depressed and potentially suicidal at the time she disappeared.

Problems are problems, but to young people without a ton of life experience, problems can be much larger (to them) than they actually are.

Maura was in burlington in October of 2003 and had hand written directions back to the area (found in her car) on the day she went missing. And yet no one thinks there is any kind of relevance????

Yes, Maura ended up in the white mountains instead, (Which according to her father, she had been there in the summer before she went missing) and yet no one finds common ground there???

But yet, we here maura eats pizza and we automatically assume she is bullimic?
Or we hear she went and stayed with her father at a hotel, so we assume she is sleeping with him (Hello, hotels feature rooms with two beds in them almost everywhere you go).

I just don't understand the thought process, I guess.......

By the way, I am sort of ranting, so don't think I am talking about you specifically. I do think you have a good working theory to go off of. With my theory of suicide, I always felt Maura was more in a thinking out process than just go and off myself mode. (The fact she brought some (not neccessarily valuable but sentimental items with her leads me to believe that).

 

[Jane Birch]

Unpacked what ? Maura must have slept in her bed after work on Friday ?

This was presuming she hadn't unpacked or was in the process of unpacking since her return to school. And yes, it does leave one wondering where she slept if there was crap on her bed more recently than that. (Is it possible her dad brought more of her stuff up that weekend?)

 

[Jane Birch]

You are 100 perecent correct.

It is no secret that maura loved the mountains.

But it is much more than that.

You point out yourself when explaining maura being momentairly suicidal that she could've just not given a xxxx anymore.

I would argue that driving a car on its last legs two and a half hours away into a national forest is the signs of someone not giving a xxxx anymore.

Or it could be interpreted as someone who gives very much of a xxxx, and is just at wit's end trying to sort out what to do, so does something utterly reckless.

I've no idea. I don't think suicide was part of her original plan. I can't be sure, but I don't think it was.

 

[Unscripted]

It depends. A big bottle of Jack Daniels could be missing, but they have a receipt which tells them that everything she bought was found in the car. So far, I find the whole thing very unclear though. Renner should have asked if the actual bottles were found in the vehicle or if they were missing and only the receipt and the box of wine were found. Renner said all the alcohol was accounted for. Meaning to the reader, LE found the bottles in the car. She didn't take them with her. Yet, I'm not convinced he asked LE a clear question. Does this all matter? I don't know. Maybe Renner has it correct, but according to what he wrote, it seems unclear to me. JMO

Law Enforcement is not obliged to divulge any information to Mr. Renner or anyone else as Maura's disappearance is part of an open, on-going investigation. With respect to the alcohol in the Saturn, if Mr. Renner was told by LE that "all was accounted for" it might just mean "we're not giving you any details regarding the booze or anything else". :banghead:

 

[scoops]

Law Enforcement is not obliged to divulge any information to Mr. Renner or anyone else as Maura's disappearance is part of an open, on-going investigation. With respect to the alcohol in the Saturn, if Mr. Renner was told by LE that "all was accounted for" it might just mean "we're not giving you any details regarding the booze or anything else". :banghead:

Law enforcement has never been hush hush about the alcohol.


In almost every story you go back and read where an officer is quoted about the contents found in maura's car. The officer has noted that a box of franzia wine was found and a receipt for bottles of alcohol was also found.

 

[Katrinka]

But yet, we here maura eats pizza and we automatically assume she is bullimic?
Or we hear she went and stayed with her father at a hotel, so we assume she is sleeping with him (Hello, hotels feature rooms with two beds in them almost everywhere you go).

Renner reported that the hotel room where Maura's father stayed had only one bed.

 

[scoops]

Renner reported that the hotel room where Maura's father stayed had only one bed.

I have stayed at that hotel (and while I stayed in a room with one bed because I requested that) the hotel clearly has and has always featured double-bed rooms available, as most hotels in the country do.

 

[Katrinka]

I have no doubt that the hotel offers one-bed rooms and two-bed rooms. According to Renner, Fred had a one-bed room.

 

[scoops]

Law enforcement has never been hush hush about the alcohol.


In almost every story you go back and read where an officer is quoted about the contents found in maura's car. The officer has noted that a box of franzia wine was found and a receipt for bottles of alcohol was also found.

And wouldn't it stand to reason that LE would've noted that besides finding a smashed box of franzia wine in the back seat driver's side floor, they also had found two bottles of alcohol somwhere else in the car. Why refer to a receipt when you would have the actual bottles of alcohol as proof instead. You wouldn't hide the fact you found bottles, but then release the information found on the receipt which is the very same thing.

The receipt is valuable for a whole different reason as it shows a timestamp and location for when and where maura purchased her alcohol. But there is no reason to not say you found bottles unless you actually didn't recover the bottles (which then leads one to believe that maura took them with her).

 

[scoops]

I have no doubt that the hotel offers one-bed rooms and two-bed rooms. According to Renner, Fred had a one-bed room.

In the released statement Fred made to the police Fred said that maura was in bed when he woke up (sunday morning at the Quality Inn in Hadley).

In no way does that mean she was in HIS bed.

James is making the leap based on how fred's words come across.

 

[gnomony]

http://www.wcax.com/story/17259479/body-found-in-st-johnsbury

Woman apparently snatched out of a car, body found 11 miles away -- and about 19 miles from where MM disappeared.

 

[Jane Birch]

In the released statement Fred made to the police Fred said that maura was in bed when he woke up (sunday morning at the Quality Inn in Hadley).

In no way does that mean she was in HIS bed.

James is making the leap based on how fred's words come across.

Also, there's the assumption being made that he didn't sleep somewhere else, like the floor or a chair, which is completely a possibility IMO. That's a fiarly common thing for people (men) to do when a female spends the night unexpectedly.