GUILTY NJ - Autumn Pasquale, 12, Clayton, 20 Oct 2012 - #3

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Again go check out the scanner thread #1 around 3:45 - 4:30 pm on Sunday. Something was up. I'm going to speculate this was when dots started to be connected. Perhaps when joe Nicholas was sniffing out the brothers.

Monday- starts scanner thread

I'm going back to read...cuz I think I do remember looking at a map around that time, because I remember, I was frustrated I couldn't understand some of the street names....

I'm from North Jersey; moved to another S. Jersey county in the 90's before coming here. The street names ARE confusing to me. Recently my daughter needed to be picked up; her cell battery was almost dead; had enough battery to tell me where she was but she kept breaking up. I knew she was over by one major road because I heard that name; the problem was; I kept hearing parts of the other road name which had Williamstown; then it blipped out; I heard blip Clayton. Another name they use is Glassboro. There are a few roads with Clayton & Williamstown in the name; had to figure out which one it was that crossed the one road I heard- because they ALL do!

The park road is called Clayton Williamstown Rd; it's also called East Academy. As you go towards Milano's where the phone pinged; it changes to Clayton Williamstown Rd- then to Clayton Rd then Corkery lane & to add to the confusion of road names- a Williamstown Rd; changes to Franklinville Williamstown Rd

Ok, post 282 (2:33 pm by Nurse) gives a map. It may've been in that area. But reading back thru the read I remember that it seemed like there were a couple different searches (in different areas) going on simultaneously, so it was confusing me...sorry. :( maybe someone else can help better?

That's what I remember too.
 
It is my (informed) opinion that it was the facebook forensics that lead LE to the brothers and not the dogs for many reasons but ultimately it was easier to get search warrants with hard eveidence. We are only seeing one layer in the facebook conversations. We are not seeing private messages or chats.
 
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...es_attorney_for_parents_and_step-parents.html

Autumn's parent's and step parents - all 4 of them together- have hired a criminal defense attorney to help guide them through the process. He does NOT represent the outspoken Uncle Paul Spadafora. Maybe Uncle Paul is the only one pointing the finger at LE, and parents do not agree? Or perhaps the attorney advised the family to let Uncle be the squeaky wheel while parents remain gracious?

Kaigh, 54, said he met with Pasquale's parents Thursday afternoon to talk about the R******s' detention hearing Friday morning in Gloucester County. Kaigh is not representing Pasquale's uncle Paul Spadafora, who has acted as a family spokesman since she disappeared Saturday
BBM

Related to this. I think it is interesting that the press conference Uncle Paul was going to give regarding the condition of her body was aborted. Someone decided that was a poor choice. I'm guessing the decision was made, because the information about the condition of her body would indicate time of death, and this may be information LE and the prosecutor doesn't want made public. I try very hard to read every post before I ask questions, but it's possible I missed something.

1. Do we know time of death?
2. Can we definitely say that they did NOT hold her before her death?

Thanks.
 
IMO.. She was probably hanging out with them.. Then things changed ..
 
http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2012/10/autumn_pasquale_family_calls_f.html

i agree with you on this and tho i understand the family is grieving and what happened is horrible i dont see where le could have done anything to prevent her death if in fact she was gone by the time the family called le... i havent heard the uncle say one positive thing from day one. if this guy at the downtown command post was so positive why didnt he do whatever he had to to get le over there? i think something is still missing here...

the way this article reads is that the brothers were at the pd 2 times? or am i not understanding?

its not the fault of le that their daughter went to this location, i dont even think that autumns family knew that she would go to this place, i dont even think autumn knew that she was going to go to this place at this certain time!

ive read in a couple places that autumn took "blue rims" to the brothers house that day....so, where were these rims originally? it would be a pain to be riding around carrying rims all over town so wouldnt she most likely of went directly to their house to do their swapping? moo

One thing that has bothered me is that I kept seeing 12 year old girl. I understand that she was not 13 (I'm sorry that she will never see 13); with my hub; kids & I; when it's that close to a birthday; we consider them the birthday number. In a lot of pics I saw; what looked more like someone older then the 12 year old that was being talked about in the media.

I suspect & this is MOO- that LE; may have known a different Autumn then the parents knew. No secret that we found the you tube comment where she was calling someone out. We also saw 2 FB accounts where she lists she works for 2 places- one place was a fake FB page where she could have been sending modeling photos to. She also had over 600 friends on the one account. I know some 12-13 year olds; they do not use FB; nor do they use you tube.

It's possible Autumns parents did not know she knew who this was but one brother was friends with her brother; plus they lived blocks away. If they have a reputation for stealing bikes; chances are; she knew this because of her bike; so that she knew to keep it locked up or never unattended.

IMO.. She was probably hanging out with them.. Then things changed ..

Pretty close to my opinion too

.
 
In the FB conversation I saw, Autumn was commenting on the "sexy" bike. Those blue rims were on the bike already, so she didn't take them over there..
 
It is my (informed) opinion that it was the facebook forensics that lead LE to the brothers and not the dogs for many reasons but ultimately it was easier to get search warrants with hard eveidence. We are only seeing one layer in the facebook conversations. We are not seeing private messages or chats.

So your saying le is covering it up?

R.I.P. Autumn
 
In the FB conversation I saw, Autumn was commenting on the "sexy" bike. Those blue rims were on the bike already, so she didn't take them over there..

Did I miss said rims discovered?

R.I.P. Autumn
 
So your saying le is covering it up?

R.I.P. Autumn

No, not at all. I am saying that I doubt the arrrest came as a result of the dogs. It is my opinion that the police were narrowing in on the brothers pretty early on monday. Do you remember at the first press conference someone asked about 2 suspects that had been questioned?
 
No, not at all. I am saying that I doubt the arrrest came as a result of the dogs. It is my opinion that the police were narrowing in on the brothers pretty early on monday. Do you remember at the first press conference someone asked about 2 suspects that had been questioned?

The boys' father was in police custody on August 12, 2012 and released the same day according to Vinelink.

I agree with you.
 
I don't want to hijack the thread but quick wanted to add that you can also set parental blocks, as well as block certain websites, allow only certain websites, block cuss words, set up a time limit including start up & shut down times, etc.

Yep. I have ALLL kinds of parental blocks on my children's computers and iPad. We use them for homeschool, but they inevitably become toys too. They have a special browser on the iPad set to Middle School level. (although I have a six YO, younger siblings often get freedoms sooner)

What I haven't been able to control is YouTube. I wish I had choices other than just flat blocking it all together. It's a wild ride out there. Some stuff is horrifically inappropriate, but there is so much that's fun & OK

As far as responding to bike thefts... Have you listened to a scanner? (that is sooo not a sarcastic question!) LE can be so incredibly busy, especially on weekends. Call after call, some are dogs barking, many are for drunks, DV, child welfare, 'someone is living in my attic,' loud music, loud music part 2, shooting, peeping and on and on. Maybe the bikes were a lower priority that day. After listening to a scanner feed for a while now, I have a newfound respect and awe for LE. I had no idea just how busy they are, many times simply because people can't hold their beer or fist or find the volume. JMramblingO

IMO unaware of just how many LE officers there are in the area and what they had to be doing at that time. Also it's not like they would rush the whole calvary over there it would just take 1 cop to come over and talk to them.

I did something illegal when i was younger, and one night when i was watching tv the Cops came knocking on my door to ask me some questions.

Yah I saw a call (to 911!) because there was a snake in the caller's pants. Gosh, I have a serious phobia of snakes so that would probably make me soil my pants, but what are the cops gonna do about it?

I have a friend who is an EMT. He has responded to a call from a woman who could not remove her ring. So, yeah, they have to prioritize those calls.

Today was recycling pickup day in my neighborhood. As I drove by those tall blue bins at the end of each neighbor's driveway, I thought who, in a million years, would think one of those might contain a body?

Me too. I was telling DH about the case and I said, "she was in one of those big blue recycling bins, like ours." :shudder: it's my 12 year old's chore to empty the small recycling bin under the sink into it each day and roll that out to the street once a week.


easy to miss....just concerning to me that 12 year old girls are on the computer at 3 am ANY night....let alone a school night. Also, concerning that SHE started the conversation. I hate that girls need to be trained to be overly cautious, but they do, and it is becoming more apparent daily.


jmo

I don't think anyone could have anticipated that these boys were murderers. She went to school with them and knew them, was already Facebook friends with the younger one. I certainly don't fault her for initiating a conversation with them. nothing she said was risky or suggestive. My goodness. I will not ask my daughter to be THAT careful.

And regarding the time:

The times on the fb posts would be of the time zone of the person taking the screen shot, not necessarily the time the chat occurred, if they are in different time zones.

This is why parents need to be more proactive in protecting their kids. Social media IS NOT a good thing for kids or even young teens. They are being "online friends" with friends who would never make it through your door.

And 3am on a school night? If I found my daughter doing that, or son, technology would be gone. For a long time (aside from one pc that can access only educational website) in the kitchen.

You know that's interesting. There are several risks Autumn was allowed to take that my children wouldn't be able to do. (I have on 12 year old, the other two are younger) but talking on FB is one they would likely do - if they had accounts, which they won't until they are 13, per Facebook TOS. We home school though, so we keep flexible hours. It's one of the things I love about it. The time she talked to him alone doesn't represent risk, but it is one more piece of the picture of Autumn's degree of supervision. Which I would say was relatively low.

I get the whole bashing of social media, I do. I don't have a facebook, neither does my husband...I just never got the concept of reading up on what others are eating, watching, doing, liking...who really cares?

But kids do, and it's the way it is. I don't fault any parent who allows their 12 year old to have a facebook. And I'm a little uncomfortable with anyone assuming that these parents didn't monitor Autumn's facebook.

I love Facebook. I am a 42 YO SAHM, I use it for a nice social connection. It's cool that you don't care for it, but it's not just for kids. I have some pretty meaty conversations there too. Which is why, I do fault parents who let children younger than 13 have accounts. That's a violation of Facebook's TOS, and frankly, when I'm on Facebook, I don't want to censor my thoughts or words, or the links I post to grisly news stories because someone else's kid might see them. And I don't, which is why it's really doubly necessary for parents who do choose to let kids younger than 13 use Facebook, keep an eye on them and watch their accounts. When my son does turn 13 I'll have access to his password. I won't check it constantly, but he'll know that I might JMHO

To be fair, the text between Autumn and JR regarding his "sweet ride" (my words), do not seem alarming at all. They only are in hindsight. IMO

I totally agree here. It's completely innocuous. Only in hindsight is it sinister.
 
Yep. I have ALLL kinds of parental blocks on my children's computers and iPad. We use them for homeschool, but they inevitably become toys too. They have a special browser on the iPad set to Middle School level. (although I have a six YO, younger siblings often get freedoms sooner)

What I haven't been able to control is YouTube. I wish I had choices other than just flat blocking it all together. It's a wild ride out there. Some stuff is horrifically inappropriate, but there is so much that's fun & OK



I have a friend who is an EMT. He has responded to a call from a woman who could not remove her ring. So, yeah, they have to prioritize those calls.



Me too. I was telling DH about the case and I said, "she was in one of those big blue recycling bins, like ours." :shudder: it's my 12 year old's chore to empty the small recycling bin under the sink into it each day and roll that out to the street once a week.




I don't think anyone cold have anticipated that these boys were murderers. She went to school with them and knew them, was already Facebook friends with the younger one. I certainly don't fault her for initiating a conversation with them. nothing she said was risky or suggestive. My goodness. I will not ask my daughter to be THAT careful.

And regarding the time:



You know that's interesting. There are several risks Autumn was allowed to take that my children wouldn't be able to do. (I have on 12 year old, the other two are younger) but talking on FB is one they would likely do - if they had accounts, which they won't until they are 13, per Facebook TOS. We home school though, so we keep flexible hours. It's one of the things I love about it. The time she talked to him alone doesn't represent risk, but it is one more piece of the picture of Autumn's degree of supervision. Which I would say was relatively low.



I love Facebook. I am a 42 YO SAHM, I use it for a nice social connection. It's cool that you don't care for it, but it's not just for kids. I have some pretty meaty conversations there too. Which is why, I do fault parents who let children younger than 13 have accounts. That's a violation of Facebook's TOS, and frankly, when I'm on Facebook, I don't want to censor my thoughts or words, or the links I post to grisly news stories because someone else's kid might see them. And I don't, which is why it's really doubly necessary for parents who do choose to let kids younger than 13 use Facebook, keep an eye on them and watch their accounts. When my son does turn 13 I'll have access to his password. I won't check it constantly, but he'll know that I might JMHO



I totally agree here. It's completely innocuous. Only in hindsight is it sinister.

I agree up until this exact second I didn't think anything of it. The original post was back in August. She commented on October 17th. It is very plausible that she just friend JR very recently.

R.I.P. Autumn
 
No, not at all. I am saying that I doubt the arrrest came as a result of the dogs. It is my opinion that the police were narrowing in on the brothers pretty early on monday. Do you remember at the first press conference someone asked about 2 suspects that had been questioned?

I think you are exactly right.
 
…(respectfully snipped italics added)… I suspect & this is MOO- that LE; may have known a different Autumn then the parents knew. No secret that we found the you tube comment where she was calling someone out. We also saw 2 FB accounts where she lists she works for 2 places- one place was a fake FB page where she could have been sending modeling photos to. She also had over 600 friends on the one account. I know some 12-13 year olds; they do not use FB; nor do they use you tube.

It's possible Autumns parents did not know she knew who this was but one brother was friends with her brother; plus they lived blocks away. If they have a reputation for stealing bikes; chances are; she knew this because of her bike; so that she knew to keep it locked up or never unattended.

In the FB conversation I saw, Autumn was commenting on the "sexy" bike. Those blue rims were on the bike already, so she didn't take them over there..

Maybe she was well aware that there was some possibility they were stolen? Maybe the trade she was participating was not entirely on the up and up? She may have wanted the rims and been willing to turn a bit of a blind eye to how the brother's obtained them, not blaming Autumn, just suggesting she may have very well known there was nefarious bike dealing going on. That sure as &$#%* doesn't mean someone is going to die over it.
 
I agree up until this exact second I didn't think anything of it. The original post was back in August. She commented on October 17th. It is very plausible that she just friend JR very recently.

R.I.P. Autumn

Feel free to snip my novellas when you quote me. I know they're super long. :blushing:
 
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...es_attorney_for_parents_and_step-parents.html

Autumn's parent's and step parents - all 4 of them together- have hired a criminal defense attorney to help guide them through the process. He does NOT represent the outspoken Uncle Paul Spadafora. Maybe Uncle Paul is the only one pointing the finger at LE, and parents do not agree? Or perhaps the attorney advised the family to let Uncle be the squeaky wheel while parents remain gracious?

I'm still watching the video at this link- Autumn Pasquale family calls for Attorney General's investigation - but the parents are saying it too

.
 
Maybe she was well aware that there was some possibility they were stolen? Maybe the trade she was participating was not entirely on the up and up? She may have wanted the rims and been willing to turn a bit of a blind eye to how the brother's obtained them, not blaming Autumn, just suggesting she may have very well known there was nefarious bike dealing going on. That sure as &$#%* doesn't mean someone is going to die over it.

According to the bike with the blue rims FB post screenshot- AMD posted it prob wasn't his bike. My thinking is different; what if AP messaged AMD; AMD told her who the bike belonged to; so AP went over there to see if they did take the bike? More so like she was doing her own snooping for a friend?
 

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