Identified! NJ - Blairstown, Cedar Ridge Cemetery, 'Princess Doe', WhtFem 14-18, 36UFNJ, peacock skirt, Jul'82 - Dawn Olanick *charges*

[s_v_c]

Thinking today of Princess Doe. I wish this thread was more active!

 

[nola]

Does anybody think that Princess Doe could be Karen Reinert?
Can't find dentals for Karen Reinert to compare. Anybody looked at this as a match before?

 

[Pdoe]

Bumping for the 28th anniversary of Princess Doe being found in Blairstown, NJ.

 

[CarlK90245]

Does anybody think that Princess Doe could be Karen Reinert?
Can't find dentals for Karen Reinert to compare. Anybody looked at this as a match before?

I like this one - Her teeth are identical. Her overall look is identical. And she was wearing a "Peasant blouse" when she was last seen (to match the "Peasant Skirt" that Princess Doe was wearing).

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/reinert_karen.html

Surprisingly, Karen Reinert is not on the Princess Doe Rule-out list, and this list actually looks like it's comprehensive (unlike the NamUs rule-out lists).

http://www.princessdoe.org/protected/new_match/poss_matchlist.php?start=76

They might have trouble getting DNA on Karen, unless her maternal grandmother is alive (or a maternal aunt or uncle, if she has one). Her mother was murdered at the time that she disappeared.

 

[Cymro]

I like the look, the dentals as far as they go, the demographics, the location, and even the timescale doesn't really seem like too much of a problem in itself.

However I just cannot come up with a scenario in which Karen is kidnapped, her mother killed, her brother experiences an unknown fate... and then three years later, she turns up dead.

At least, that is, if William Bradfield was indeed guilty of the murder(s). In 1983, he was re-arrested almost immediately following his incarceration on fraud charges. He was therefore in prison at the time of Princess Doe's murder. Princess Doe had been looking for work before her death, so she may well have been a runaway - but I don't think that suggests she'd been a captive. If Karen had lived, I can't believe she'd not have come forward following her mother's murder.

Maybe this should be looked at anyway because the whole case reads like a preposterous movie plot - and while I don't like the idea of a rule out on circumstances, I can't see how this can be her.

 

[CarlK90245]

I like the look, the dentals as far as they go, the demographics, the location, and even the timescale doesn't really seem like too much of a problem in itself.

However I just cannot come up with a scenario in which Karen is kidnapped, her mother killed, her brother experiences an unknown fate... and then three years later, she turns up dead.

At least, that is, if William Bradfield was indeed guilty of the murder(s). In 1983, he was re-arrested almost immediately following his incarceration on fraud charges. He was therefore in prison at the time of Princess Doe's murder. Princess Doe had been looking for work before her death, so she may well have been a runaway - but I don't think that suggests she'd been a captive. If Karen had lived, I can't believe she'd not have come forward following her mother's murder.

Maybe this should be looked at anyway because the whole case reads like a preposterous movie plot - and while I don't like the idea of a rule out on circumstances, I can't see how this can be her.

Bradfield was believed to have an accomplice, so maybe she was in the hands of the accomplice while he was incarcerated.

 

[carbuff]

I remember that case -- freakin' bizarre, and that stone gives me nightmares.

The match on everything just seems too close to pass up.

Since he didn't have any problem with leaving the mother's body in the trunk, I don't see why he wouldn't have left the kids there too if he killed them at the time. Maybe he kidnapped them, kept them for a while, and then dumped them out on the streets somewhere.

 

[Cymro]

I guess that he was being cautious, in a way.

If Bradfield did kill Susan (and I'm pretty convinced he did) then she had to be found, and found quickly for two reasons:

1. No body might have meant no life insurance payout; and
2. She had to be found quickly so that she would be identified and more to the point, found within such time that his alibi would hold (i.e., so he would have a complete alibi between her date of last contact and discovery of her body).

Meanwhile, the children were no more than a nuisance to him. Alive, they might have challenged the will or - worse - been witnesses. If their bodies were found it wouldn't have helped him but there could have been more physical evidence against him. There was certainly no need to transport the bodies away from where he was spending the weekend, where he had probably lured their mother.

If he could be sure that they wouldn't be found or identified, it would have been much less risky to dispose of the children's bodies near where they were killed. The likelihood is that the children's bodies were destroyed or dumped at sea. It's just barely conceivable that Karen was allowed to live in a Jaycee Dugard style hostage situation - perhaps as someone's reward for participating in the killing - but it seems unlikely. If somehow that did happen and Karen was Blairstown Doe, it is even less likely that, with a measure of freedom, she would have been looking for work rather than going right to the authorities.

As it was, Bradfield got lucky in that the body was cremated within 48 hours (!), the 911 call reporting the body (which he or an accomplice might have made) was overwritten because of calls due to the Three Mile Island incident, and the police initially had no idea that the children even existed. Part of the evidence against him was that no one else had the incentive to display the mother's body and dispose of the children's in that way.

 

[nola]

I got the sick feeling that he could have sold her and her brother for profit after killing their mom. That, along with the (possible clue to her burial site) photo (which, to me, looked like it could have been taken in a cemetery) made me link Karen to Princess Doe.

 

[chaddylex]

I remember not too long ago watching that whole William Bradford/Susan Reinhart story on Tru TV, it was on a show called Murder By The Book. Jay Smith the principal of the high school where Bradford and Reinhart worked was supposed to be in on the whole disapperance/ murder of Susan Reihnart and her children. He was convicted then it was later overturned and he was released from prison. Jay Smith died last year and never admitted any involvement in the the disapperance of the Reinhart children or Susan's death.

If I remember correctly, I believe that William Bradford visited New Jersey around the same time that Susan Reinhart was killed, he said he wanted to go to the beach... Wonder if he took her kids with him to New Jersey, sold them or gave the kids to someone there.... A few years later we have Princess Doe found dead in New Jersey...

I know my story might be a little far fetched, but I know stranger things have happened....

 

[carbuff]

Found some interesting archived newspaper articles about the reasons why Jay Smith's conviction was overturned:

http://www.truthinjustice.org/jay-smith.htm

Yeah, there's a definite New Jersey connection. Some of the evidence pointed to the mother being taken to NJ and murdered there. I wonder if he didn't want to kill the kids if he didn't have to and thought that getting rid of them to somebody else in another state to keep them hidden was enough? Or if he injected the kids with morphine as he did the mother, then abandoned them and it turned out the dose wasn't fatal? I dunno, but it seems like there are a lot of things pointing to a match and not many pointing away.

 

[chaddylex]

Found some interesting archived newspaper articles about the reasons why Jay Smith's conviction was overturned:

http://www.truthinjustice.org/jay-smith.htm

Yeah, there's a definite New Jersey connection. I wonder if he didn't want to kill the kids if he didn't have to and thought that getting rid of them to somebody else in another state to keep them hidden was enough? Or if he injected the kids with morphine as he did the mother, then abandoned them and it turned out the dose wasn't fatal? I dunno, but it seems like there are a lot of things pointing to a match and not many pointing away.

I agree carbuff...

Carl, since you are good at talking to LE, are you going to turn it in??

 

[CarlK90245]

I agree carbuff...

Carl, since you are good at talking to LE, are you going to turn it in??

I left a voicemail message with Lt. Spiers of the Warren County Prosecutor's Office.

 

[CarlK90245]

Lt. Spiers called me back, and we discussed this possibility. He pulled up the information on Karen's case as we spoke and he read through it briefly. He came off as being very receptive to the idea that Karen might be Princess Doe.

He was particularly intrigued with the New Jersey connections both with regard to the suspects and the evidence found on the mother's body. He also seemed to be quite impressed with the resemblance between her photo and the NCMEC facial reconstruction.

He agreed with my comment to him that given that both her parents are deceased, there may be difficulties in locating identifiers, but he said that he would contact Ardmore PA authorities to see if they can get anything on her.

As for circumstances, he had no problem with the possibility that something out of the ordinary might have happened. Given the multiple suspects, and that the mother's body was found, while those of Karen and her brother were not, the possibility of a three-year captive scenario is not out of the question.

 

[Cymro]

There's not really a New Jersey connection at all here I'm afraid.

Karen disappeared from, essentially, Philadelphia. Bradfield went to Cape May on the weekend of the murder; Doe was found in Blairstown.

Both Cape May and Blairstown are around 100 miles away from Philly - but in opposite directions. While the geography looks good regardless, there's nothing about the Cape May visit that makes Blairstown a better possibility for a disposal site.

 

[CarlK90245]

You're probably right, but that was what caught his attention as he was scanning through the narrative. I'm sure he's fielded plenty of calls for MP's from all over the country, and was happy to see something that was relatively local.

In that respect, Philadelphia is as close to being a "New Jersey" connection as anywhere in New Jersey, because Philly is just across the Delaware River from NJ. Besides, with a three-year lag, she could have been just about anywhere in the interim.

 

[reasypeasy]

Lt. Spiers called me back, and we discussed this possibility. He pulled up the information on Karen's case as we spoke and he read through it briefly. He came off as being very receptive to the idea that Karen might be Princess Doe.

He was particularly intrigued with the New Jersey connections both with regard to the suspects and the evidence found on the mother's body. He also seemed to be quite impressed with the resemblance between her photo and the NCMEC facial reconstruction.

He agreed with my comment to him that given that both her parents are deceased, there may be difficulties in locating identifiers, but he said that he would contact Ardmore PA authorities to see if they can get anything on her.

As for circumstances, he had no problem with the possibility that something out of the ordinary might have happened. Given the multiple suspects, and that the mother's body was found, while those of Karen and her brother were not, the possibility of a three-year captive scenario is not out of the question.

Three years in the hands of someone smart and unscrupulous might well be enough to brainwash a kid into either loving her captor or fearing that she'll be blamed if caught, especially if she actually has done problematic things under co-ercion while in captivity, for example participated in violent acts against her brother.

 

[chaddylex]

The whole Reinhart/Bradford story is just so unbelieveable. Who is to say what Bradford could have done with the children. I am glad that the Lt Spiers was receptive to the possibility that that Princess Doe could be Karen Reinhart. Princess Doe hasn't been identified so I didn't think it could hurt to have it checked into.

Wonder if Karen Reinhart has dentals somewhere....

 

[CarlK90245]

The whole Reinhart/Bradford story is just so unbelieveable. Who is to say what Bradfield could have done with the children. I am glad that the Lt Spiers was receptive to the possibility that that Princess Doe could be Karen Reinhart. Princess Doe hasn't been identified so I didn't think it could hurt to have it checked into.

Wonder if Karen Reinhart has dentals somewhere....

I just finished reading Echoes In The Darkness, the Joseph Wambaugh book about the Reinert case. I was amazed at how William Bradfield could fancy himself as being so clever, and in reality, be so transparently inept. I was also amazed at how someone who was such a transparent B.S.'er could assemble such a following of minions, and how Susan Reinert could allow herself to be lead right into her own (and her children's) murder.

I came away from the book convinced that Bradfield was definitely guilty of conspiring to the murder, but was not actually the killer. The case against Jay Smith as the actual killer is a little more dicey. There was plenty of evidence in his behavior and taped comments to a jailhouse informant that indicated consciousness of guilt, but there wasn't much physical evidence that could not have been explained away as having been planted by Bradfield. And the possibility that Bradfield planted the physical evidence on Smith was somewhat plausible given Bradfield's M.O.

As for the possibility that Karen Reinert was not murdered for three years and became Princess Doe, it is an extreme longshot. However, there was never any hint as to what actually happened to Michael and Karen (or for that matter, what happened to Smith's daughter and son-in-law). It was presumed that Smith killed them, and possibly dissolved their bodies in acid, but there is no evidence of that actually happening.

The one little tantalizing tidbit comes at page 206 where Vince Valatis (one of Bradford's acolytes) pounds his fist on the table and tells Bradfield that he is not going to go to jail for him.

Bill Bradfield got mad too. He grabbed a piece of paper and a pencil and said "If I'm going to be blamed for murder, then I might as well admit it. Here, I'll show you how I did it."

He drew a square with a little line. He said "I took the children and I gave them to ..."

But Vince snatched the paper and crumpled it up and threw it on the floor, saying "Don't do that! Don't make things up!"

...

At a later time, he would swear that Bill Bradfield said "Smith." He would remember that it was "I gave them to Smith". Years and memories are tricky. Bill Bradfield may or may not have said "Smith". The implication seemed clear, but Vince learned that lawyers worry a great deal about such things.

That is the only time Bradfield ever came close to an admission of guilt.

 

[chaddylex]

Carl,

Have you heard anything back from Detective Spiers about the comparision between Princess Doe and Karen Reinhart?