AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #2

[SuperTmo]

Spanish is her first language. She is fluent in English but I’m going to say she doesn’t used all words correctly. My husband is Central American and is fluent in English but only spoke Spanish until he was 5. There are things he says in English that I usually don’t hear because of how he learned to translate it in his head. When we go somewhere in the car he will ask me “are you getting down from the car.” I always tell him it’s “out of the car.”

I wouldn’t read too much into it.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for that. I get to the point in these cases where I read way too far into everything and forget the basics in a story like English just isn’t her first language. I know we are all desperate to think of something useful or helpful that will bring Dulce home. These cases are so hard.

 

[SuperTmo]

I can't help but wonder if the abduction of Dulce happened inside the restroom with her little brother? From the video of the convenience store Dulce is attentive to him. Maybe when Mom says her little boy said his ice cream was knocked to the floor, he was referring to the restroom? It would make sense since none of the basketball players saw the abduction take place, but they had seen the kids playing.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say with my post a page or so ago about whether it’s common to call the floor the ground. I don’t know what buildings are around but wonder if there was a chance they were ever inside with the guy.

 

[otto]

Yes, unfortunately those old tricks still work, even on well-informed and "smart" children. Many poorer school districts don't have Safetytown programs, either. Even after having been through that program myself, I still once answered the door for someone who was a stranger to me while my mother was in the bathroom. Thankfully they were a well-intentioned friend of the family, but I still had quite the stern talking-to after that.

One day I was at a playground with a 5 year old unattended child. In that time, before we sent the child home, I extracted the child's address, phone number and name. The parents taught the child this information for the child's safety, I could have used it to the child's detriment.

There is no answer to whether it is better to teach a 5 year old the important information. In this case, the 5 year old did not make a fuss when her little brother was left with his ice cream cone in the gravel. I think the 5 year old was threatened to keep quiet and cooperate. Adult abduction victims should know that going with the perpetrator means certain death, best chance is to not be abducted. A 5 year old child would not know or understand this important decision.

 

[otto]

Unless contrary info comes forth, I believe this was a stranger abduction....an opportunistic one. It can happen to anyone anywhere when one least expects it. Remember Cherish Perrywinkle? Walked out of a Walmart with an older man to "buy burgers" . And another little girl in El Paso, also lured out of a Walmart. Both on surveillance video, the perps didn't even care. And then those perverts that snatch children right off the sidewalk, and so many attempted abductions. A mom can be distracted for a few seconds....and boom. I lost my 5 year old kid in a department store once....looking at something on the clothing rack for 3 seconds....and she was gone! I was frantic. She was hiding inside the damn rack...!
So flipping dangerous out there...
I still worry about my kid....and she's 28 now!

But ... stranger abduction and crime of opportunity, 24 people at the tennis courts and playground saw a child abduction but did not realize that a child was abducted. How did that happen? The orange running shoes looked normal near the tennis courts?

 

[Suglo]

I remember how Hania Aguilar's family was drag through the mud by so many people, their legal status, cartel and gang connections. I see now how this case is going on this forum and it's interesting how the same pattern repeats with Hispanics victims. And by the way Dulce does not look like she has down syndrome at all. All just my opinion. I hope she is found safe soon but is not looking good.

Thank you! I was just thinking the same exact thing

 

[Sweetsbeach]

Unless contrary info comes forth, I believe this was a stranger abduction....an opportunistic one. It can happen to anyone anywhere when one least expects it. Remember Cherish Perrywinkle? Walked out of a Walmart with an older man to "buy burgers" . And another little girl in El Paso, also lured out of a Walmart. Both on surveillance video, the perps didn't even care. And then those perverts that snatch children right off the sidewalk, and so many attempted abductions. A mom can be distracted for a few seconds....and boom. I lost my 5 year old kid in a department store once....looking at something on the clothing rack for 3 seconds....and she was gone! I was frantic. She was hiding inside the damn rack...!
So flipping dangerous out there...
I still worry about my kid....and she's 28 now!

Yeah and you can completely try your best to instill stranger danger in your child, and it still might not work when faced to face with a manipulative adult predator. God only knows what that person might have said to Dulce if that is the case.
I can feel your panic just reading about your incident in the department store. My toddler tries to taked off running any time we go to a crowded place and that is exactly why I recently got a harness and leash for him. Some people look at me like oh geez, but I've had other parents say they have one for their kids too. It's a scary world. God I hope they find little Dulce safe.

 

[otto]

I remember how Hania Aguilar's family was drag through the mud by so many people, their legal status, cartel and gang connections. I see now how this case is going on this forum and it's interesting how the same pattern repeats with Hispanics victims. And by the way Dulce does not look like she has down syndrome at all. All just my opinion. I hope she is found safe soon but is not looking good.

Are illegal aliens and cross border custody issues at play? One child has a father studying in Mexico, he cannot be contacted, another has a father who is illegally in the USA. No info is available about the 3 year old, but, given that the other two fathers are not citizens of the USA, chances are the mother is traveling often between Mexico and USA for parenting.

What a mess. A straight laced pimple faced minivan driving man abducted Dulce while 24 witnesses thought everything was normal.

 

[moonlessnight]

thanks. where was the abduction van then?

Different buildings.

View attachment 205820

 

[moonlessnight]

exactly. when crimes against women and children happen in the moment, most of the time it doesn't look like anything out of the ordinary.

But ... stranger abduction and crime of opportunity, 24 people at the tennis courts and playground saw a child abduction but did not realize that a child was abducted. How did that happen? The orange running shoes looked normal near the tennis courts?

 

[afitzy]

Are illegal aliens and cross border custody issues at play? One child has a father studying in Mexico, he cannot be contacted, another has a father who is illegally in the USA. No info is available about the 3 year old, but, given that the other two fathers are not citizens of the USA, chances are the mother is traveling often between Mexico and USA for parenting.

What a mess. A straight laced pimple faced minivan driving man abducted Dulce while 24 witnesses thought everything was normal.

Yes, the perp description with acne was curious and if victim went willingly I wonder if she knew the perp or perp used a name of someone known to victim to get her to van?

Do wonder if this is a inter-family situation specific to victim?

 

[SuperTmo]

I think it is very possible mom took Dulce and her son to the park after school and the aunt wanted to go but may have been instructed by her parent she takes the homework and finishes before she gets out to play. perhaps Dulce mom thought she could help and would only take a few minutes to complete. that is only my opinion and thoughts as to why mom had not got out of car yet.

IMO this is a poor excuse. Playgrounds have benches nearby, or they could have sat on the ground. I personally think that these kids played alone at the park frequently.

 

[whitelilac]

From what I understand, most of the 24 were playing basketball. They were involved in their own thing, who is going to pay attention to a couple of kids on the swings? And if any if them did see little Dulce walk off with this man, they probably thought he was the dad. Who thinks of worst case scenarios?

Yes we do....I once witnessed a man in a car calling a little boy over. He was playing on his scooter on his driveway on my street. You bet I watched, ready to run over and grab him. It was just normal...man was his uncle.
People going about their business don't notice things, are not on alert, unless there's an obvious scene.

 

[moonlessnight]

I would bet he had been playing b-ball on the courts. So the other players must know him or have seen him around. I would also bet they were not aware of him leading the girl in the opposite direction from the b-ball court to where the other bldgs are, esp if he had taken a bathroom break, at which time he saw and abducted the girl with no one to witness until he got to his van parked somewhere not near the mother's vehicle.

True. Was he dressed for playing basketball? Nike orange sneakers for one on one? Was he standing near the playground or near the courts, in between?

We don't know the answers, but I like the idea of questioning why he was there if it was nothing other than a crime of opportunity. How would a single man dress to fit-in at the playground, near the basketball court, to fool everyone? Did everything look completely normal - children running from one side of the park to the playground, suspect knocks 3 year olds ice cream on the ground, he cries, the suspect takes his sister's hand and walks to his red van, did everyone assume the children are running to meet dad, after 3 year old made a mess, assume mom will follow behind since father is leaving with one child?

Obviously I'm imagining, but I am curious about what was going through the minds of 24 people who saw this without realizing that a child was being abducted.

 

[moonlessnight]

why did the first guy with dreads who spoke in the video after Alavez say "this isn't the first time this has happened?".

Yeah, you make a good point. I just found it kind of surprising that he decided to take Dulce while potential witnesses were around.

I was going on Dulce's mom's interview where she said her son "just pointed behind the buildings." She didn't see the van herself so it must have been gone by then which is really fast IMO.

To be clear, I'm not saying anything about the mother, I'm trying to figure out how the witnesses were able to see the man put Dulce in the back seat. So yes, he might have been parked in sight of the people. If the son pointed to behind the buildings then he probably meant where the man actually walked off with Dulce. Without a street view option on Google Maps it's hard to imagine where everyone was.

BTW, I think someone asked earlier if they had left to get ice cream from school. Dulce's mother said they left from home.

 

[Yvettea]

why did the first guy with dreads who spoke in the video after Alavez say "this isn't the first time this has happened?".

Can you provide a link to the video?

 

[moonlessnight]

studies have shown that kids go with strangers almost every single time, even if they are taught not to. Kids expect to see a monster, and a normal looking person is not scary. You absolutely have to watch young kids. They cannot be expected to be responsible for not trusting a stranger.

Children leave park with stranger in scary social experiment

Chilling 'stranger danger' experiment video shows seven out of 10 children leaving park with man they didn't know

Yeah and you can completely try your best to instill stranger danger in your child, and it still might not work when faced to face with a manipulative adult predator. God only knows what that person might have said to Dulce if that is the case.
I can feel your panic just reading about your incident in the department store. My toddler tries to taked off running any time we go to a crowded place and that is exactly why I recently got a harness and leash for him. Some people look at me like oh geez, but I've had other parents say they have one for their kids too. It's a scary world. God I hope they find little Dulce safe.

 

[moonlessnight]

it was part of the quote of the person I responded to, but here's the youtube link.
his name is Cedric Gravely at 1:16 in the video.

Can you provide a link to the video?

 

[otto]

thanks. where was the abduction van then?

Abductors probably like to hide the child as soon after abduction as possible, and if it is possible to leave the area, that's most likely what happened.

As soon as Dulce was abducted, she was walked to some location, her 3 year old brother pointed to the buildings next to a parking lot.

The van was most likely behind the buildings. Someone else must have been in the parking lot to see that the child was put in the back seat at 4:20PM.

This is a view from the playground to the location where Dulce was taken. The suspect was most likely parked behind the buildings, at the South parking lot.



A is most likely where the abductor parked, B is where mom was helping her sister with homework, C is the playground. Children ran from B to A, 24 people thought it was normal. One child was left crying, the other vanished.

 

[Yvettea]

it was part of the quote of the person I responded to, but here's the youtube link.
his name is Cedric Gravely at 1:16 in the video.

Thank you.

 

[otto]

Yes, the perp description with acne was curious and if victim went willingly I wonder if she knew the perp or perp used a name of someone known to victim to get her to van?

Do wonder if this is a inter-family situation specific to victim?

Someone mentioned upthread about the determination of children with a missing father to go with him if he shows up. If someone claims to be the father, the child may not know better.

At this time, investigators believe that the child is alive. If they believed that this was a random abduction, they would know that the child was dead in 45 minutes to 2 hours.

The hope is that the father, who is unreachable, has care of the missing child.