NJ NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted @ Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland Co, 16 Sep 2019 #7
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Stunned
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The choice wasn’t hers?
I will try again. I know she is not an immigrant. But....she almost displays a scared immigrants mentality. It’s like she has hung out with them all her life and knows how to stay small and low. She does not want to call attention to herself. IMO, that’s the way I read her.
MimosaMornings
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Thanks for trying to explain @Stunned.
I appreciate your posts.
I’m not disagreeing, maybe I’m having difficulty understanding since I’m in an area populated by similar demographics but the behavior is markedly different. I’ve been told by others including local LE not to look unknown men in the eyes, keep a low profile and not “rock the boat”. So I have a different perspective. All depends on the environment I guess.
I appreciate your posts.
I’m not disagreeing, maybe I’m having difficulty understanding since I’m in an area populated by similar demographics but the behavior is markedly different. I’ve been told by others including local LE not to look unknown men in the eyes, keep a low profile and not “rock the boat”. So I have a different perspective. All depends on the environment I guess.
Stunned
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I come from Miami, I am now in Western Carolina. Two very different breeds of Latinos. Miami Latinos very comfortable in their surroundings, WC Latinos not so much. I learned Spanish teaching the poor up here in the mountains. When I go home, I usually don’t know what they are saying. I have known Dulces and their family’s from NC. So different from Miami. I have also traveled a great deal through central and South America. So I know the differences. Give me the Dulces and her family anytime.
CSIDreamer
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Pretty sure her parents kicked her out. She's mentioned she wouldn't follow their house rules. She has a room in a neighboring house. We have absolutely zero idea how much her rent is. She may or may not be getting public assistance. Her boyfriend might have been paying all or part of the expenses. Do we know that car is in her name? JMO
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- People who are cripplingly shy/have severe social anxiety usually aren't the least bit shy around the small number of people who they are close to, like parents. Quite the opposite. Those are the people who they really open up to and/or rebel against.
-I have severe social anxiety. I have a license, gainful employment and even leave my house and go out into public. I just don't socialize much with people who i don't know and even people that i have been working with for years, neighbors etc. I am a totally different person around my husband, kids, parents and the small handful of close friends and family that i talk to.
- There are many ways to get and/or earn money without a job based out of a brick and mortar establishment.
-People who are cripplingly shy/have severe social anxiety often use alcohol and/or drugs to overcome their anxiety, gain false, substance fueled confidence, be more social and even become popular. You don't necessarily have to go around begging strangers to buy you alcohol as a young, pretty teenage girl. It isn't uncommon, especially in poorer communities for grown adults to readily offer substances to teen girls or for their school mates to have these things at their disposal.
IMO based on personal experience
Araised_Marvels
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Sorry I should have been more specific. I was referring about the culture of being raised by first generation immigrants.
MimosaMornings
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Thank you @fiveducks for sharing your personal experience. I grew up painfully shy and would plead sickness on days I had to give oral reports in school. I was shy with everyone including family. Never had adults or even school mates (didn’t really have mates in school) offer me drugs or alcohol.
It’s hard sometimes trying to envision her home life when we don’t have personal experience or perspective.
Araised_Marvels
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It definitely depends on the environment. Living here undocumented adds an extra level of fear that might stop people from coming forward. I think there would only be a break in the case when someone starts talking, but I am sad thinking it might not come soon enough.
I hate to think about this but if someone did dispose of Dulce, will searching landfills turn up anything beyond this point? Is it possible to find remains past Month 4? I wonder what cadaver dogs turned up at the park?
zecats
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Maybe it would help to understand NJ. We have always had immigrants (documented and surely undocumented) here - in the early days mainly seasonally to work in agriculture, but more often now year round (poultry factories, lawn care, construction, etc). They mainly work at jobs no one else cares to do. Always has been this way.
When I was a child, the immigrants mainly came from Puerto Rico to work the fields and do the job that most locals preferred not to do. Now it seems to be predominantly Mexican. There has never been, IMHO, any fear here, from them or towards them. Nor have I ever encountered any aggressiveness with anyone who fits this category.
This state has always just plain and simply accepted it. Or..no one asks. Many live on the farms where they are employed as housing is provided normally. Out and about they seem neither timid nor uneasy nor aggressive....just people going about their lives - shopping in ShopRite, going to the movies, etc, mostly minding their own business. In fact, our governor just signed a bill allowing undocs to obtain drivers licenses. It's a pretty fair and unbiased place to be, and work.
That said, I'm sure it didn't help when Noema's boyfriend (father of her son I believe) was initially detained for a bit for being undocumented. That could have put a damper on anyone coming forward with info. I do find it difficult to believe someone doesn't know something. People talk. People who commit crimes talk. So perhaps it's more from a sense of "loyalty" that no one has come forward.
Fwiw, I'm simply trying to add to the ongoing conversation here about local attitudes and types of immigrants according to geographical location. I do respect that we all have different opinions and experiences...absolutely do.
MimosaMornings
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Trying to remember, didn’t Noema say in an interview she was around 4 months pregnant when Dulce disappeared?
WildOrchid
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I thought she had said 5 months but in DP interview, she said 6 which should have been 7 by then if she was 5 at time of disappearance. Maybe she was early 5 months in September?
Araised_Marvels
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Thank you for this. I can see how things are different in NJ. I hope if someone does know something they will come forward, but I agree with you that it's a "loyalty" issue and it keeps this case at a standstill.
I do wonder about Noema's boyfriend. Noema seems close to her due date but it doesn't seem like he is around anymore. I hope LE is looking at his friends or associates/coworkers if they have ever met Dulce or might know about her schedule or her going to the park after school. I do believe it is possible that Dulce knew her possible abductor even in passing. There are many possible scenarios but it might be the most obvious one. I am glad volunteers are still giving out flyers in support.
Praying for a break in this case.
MimosaMornings
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I don’t know when her due date is or if she has been receiving prenatal care, but I will say a prayer tonight for safe delivery of her baby and a clue to find Dulce.
zecats
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Family of missing girl Dulce Alavez rallies for more support in Bridgeton
"Five-year-old Dulce Maria Alavez’s disappearance dominated local and national headlines after she disappeared without a trace while at her local Southern New Jersey playground. But as the investigation heads into its fourth month, Dulce’s family and supporters say public interest in the case is waning in Bridgeton, the place most likely to yield clues.
They hope a march to City Hall Monday morning will get the attention of the Bridgeton community — especially the city’s mayor, who supporters say can galvanize the community."
"From the time Dulce went missing on Sept. 16, Bridgeton Police Chief Michael Gaimari has insisted someone in the Cumberland County city had to have seen something the day Dulce disappeared.
But he feared some in the majority Latino town of more than 24,000 might be held back by immigration concerns."
"Five-year-old Dulce Maria Alavez’s disappearance dominated local and national headlines after she disappeared without a trace while at her local Southern New Jersey playground. But as the investigation heads into its fourth month, Dulce’s family and supporters say public interest in the case is waning in Bridgeton, the place most likely to yield clues.
They hope a march to City Hall Monday morning will get the attention of the Bridgeton community — especially the city’s mayor, who supporters say can galvanize the community."
"From the time Dulce went missing on Sept. 16, Bridgeton Police Chief Michael Gaimari has insisted someone in the Cumberland County city had to have seen something the day Dulce disappeared.
But he feared some in the majority Latino town of more than 24,000 might be held back by immigration concerns."
zecats
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Family of missing 5-year-old girl Dulce Maria Alavez marches to Bridgeton city hall
"It's really hard for us 'cause we're not getting any answers no more, not like we used to. They just keep saying their investigating, but literally there's no answers," said Dulce's mother, Noema Alavez.
Now roughly eight months pregnant, Dulce's mother marched along with supporters from the park Dulce was last seen to the steps of city hall.
There, awaited Bridgeton Mayor Albert Kelly.
"Dulce will never be forgotten, never be forgotten," Kelly said.
During their meeting, supporters asked the mayor for things like waived fees for permits to hold vigils and amnesty for undocumented residents who may be afraid to come forward with information.
A reward for information now stands at $75,000.
"They're not going to be asked about their documentation, we're not going to follow up on that. All we want is information about Dulce Maria Alavez," Kelly added.
"It's really hard for us 'cause we're not getting any answers no more, not like we used to. They just keep saying their investigating, but literally there's no answers," said Dulce's mother, Noema Alavez.
Now roughly eight months pregnant, Dulce's mother marched along with supporters from the park Dulce was last seen to the steps of city hall.
There, awaited Bridgeton Mayor Albert Kelly.
"Dulce will never be forgotten, never be forgotten," Kelly said.
During their meeting, supporters asked the mayor for things like waived fees for permits to hold vigils and amnesty for undocumented residents who may be afraid to come forward with information.
A reward for information now stands at $75,000.
"They're not going to be asked about their documentation, we're not going to follow up on that. All we want is information about Dulce Maria Alavez," Kelly added.
MimosaMornings
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$75,000 is a LOT of money!
casesensitive
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This article pretty much sums up and explains the reasons for the lack of community help in solving Dulce's disappearance. The ICE detainment of Noema's boyfriend was the major and continuing cause of fear of involvement. (I hope other LE forces have learned a lesson). Social media rumors were brutal as always, and escalated and were deemed legit by the family spokeswoman (Rodriguez) asserting that Noema knew more than she was letting on in a national TV show. If some people didn't think Noema was involved or knew something before the Dr. Phil show, they sure did afterwards.
From the moment Dulce left the car in the park, she was tragically destined to be a victim that day, with no watchful eyes looking out for her, with no opportunity to intervene and rescue her, and with little hope of resolution due to the fear of a community who may never disclose what they know. The circumstances that have worked against Dulce are heart wrenching, and she deserves so much more than this. Somebody knows what happened. I hope and pray they will do the right thing and provide a tip.
Quotes:
-Still, Alavez Perez’s boyfriend — who is not Dulce’s father — was briefly detained by federal immigration officials after he was interviewed by investigators, which frightened the community, according to Jackie Rodriguez, a family spokeswoman.
-“They don’t trust the Bridgeton Police, they don’t trust the state troopers, they don’t trust FBI,” Donnelly said. A promise to protect the community from the very authorities they fear would not be enough to get people to share information or even get near a search, said Donnelly.
-Rodriguez admits her recent appearance on the “Dr. Phil” show, coupled with social media-fueled rumors about Dulce’s mother’s involvement, may have drawn more skepticism from the community. “I think everybody just went crazy after that show,” Rodriguez said. “Everybody was like, ‘Oh, you know, she has something to do with it, she has something to do with it.’ The people that didn’t think she had something to do with it, now think that she knows and had something to do with it.”
Family of missing girl Dulce Alavez rallies for more support in Bridgeton
From the moment Dulce left the car in the park, she was tragically destined to be a victim that day, with no watchful eyes looking out for her, with no opportunity to intervene and rescue her, and with little hope of resolution due to the fear of a community who may never disclose what they know. The circumstances that have worked against Dulce are heart wrenching, and she deserves so much more than this. Somebody knows what happened. I hope and pray they will do the right thing and provide a tip.
Quotes:
-Still, Alavez Perez’s boyfriend — who is not Dulce’s father — was briefly detained by federal immigration officials after he was interviewed by investigators, which frightened the community, according to Jackie Rodriguez, a family spokeswoman.
-“They don’t trust the Bridgeton Police, they don’t trust the state troopers, they don’t trust FBI,” Donnelly said. A promise to protect the community from the very authorities they fear would not be enough to get people to share information or even get near a search, said Donnelly.
-Rodriguez admits her recent appearance on the “Dr. Phil” show, coupled with social media-fueled rumors about Dulce’s mother’s involvement, may have drawn more skepticism from the community. “I think everybody just went crazy after that show,” Rodriguez said. “Everybody was like, ‘Oh, you know, she has something to do with it, she has something to do with it.’ The people that didn’t think she had something to do with it, now think that she knows and had something to do with it.”
Family of missing girl Dulce Alavez rallies for more support in Bridgeton
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