AutomaticAuttie
Live Better
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,171
- Reaction score
- 1
She should have never brought the 7 year old with her in the first place.
GUILTY NJ - Gregory Leary & others for sexual assault of 7yo girl, Trenton, 2010
- Thread starter IWannaKnow
- Start date
New Posts
-
-
GUILTY CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #71
- Latest: imstilla.grandma
She should have never brought the 7 year old with her in the first place.
ITA, there is nothing magical about turning 18. It's just the line of demarkation that our society has set for sexual consent, military recruitment, voting and marriage.
A 15 year year old brain is not fully formed even though her crime might exactly mimic that of a 35 year old's. A five year old can shoot a man to death but we deal with his action as a child. IMO, a 15 year old must be accorded the same response. A child is a child. If we are not going to bend the rules for her to vote or enlist, I'm not going to bend the rules of a punitive response to a crime she might commit.
JMO and one I feel extremely strongly about. I'm very sorry if it upsets some.
And welcome back, kbl, I've missed you.
A 15 year year old brain is not fully formed even though her crime might exactly mimic that of a 35 year old's. A five year old can shoot a man to death but we deal with his action as a child. IMO, a 15 year old must be accorded the same response. A child is a child. If we are not going to bend the rules for her to vote or enlist, I'm not going to bend the rules of a punitive response to a crime she might commit.
JMO and one I feel extremely strongly about. I'm very sorry if it upsets some.
And welcome back, kbl, I've missed you.
it upsets me cause it seems to dissolve responsibility......its like saying the 15 year old can go shoot up mcdonalds and hey, its ok, she's just 15. when i was 15 i knew right from wrong, mz iz, when i got in trouble i didnt think to say 'my frontal lobe isnt developed.' i never used my grandmothers mental abuse as an excuse for acting out or my fathers abandonment either. things just were, and i dealt with them.
it also upsets me that we seem to be making a leap that shes sexually abused.....i think thats a stereotype to absue victims who chose not to do things like that, and yes, to those who remain silent about what was done to them, yet never act out in this way.
not_my_kids
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2008
- Messages
- 12,689
- Reaction score
- 281
Exactly, kbl. You dealt with them, because you possess moral fiber and you were not a broken individual.
I have a feeling this girl had none of the skills to cope with whatever went wrong in her life. Which when you are fifteen, can be anything from losing a boyfriend to being gang raped. Most fifteen year old girls are high drama.
I am more interested in the older girls emotional age than I am about her physical age. That's what makes the determination for me, as to what her culpability level is.
And welcome back, kbl. Believe it or not, I missed you.
I have a feeling this girl had none of the skills to cope with whatever went wrong in her life. Which when you are fifteen, can be anything from losing a boyfriend to being gang raped. Most fifteen year old girls are high drama.
I am more interested in the older girls emotional age than I am about her physical age. That's what makes the determination for me, as to what her culpability level is.
And welcome back, kbl. Believe it or not, I missed you.
well i dont know what age would make it excusable to sell your sister to a bunch of rapists and pedophiles while you watch it happen.......im sorry, when people are doing this at 45, its not excusable, why is it excusable at 15? many women/girls have been gang raped, molested, sexually assauled, and abused, how many sold there sister down the river like this girl did? im pretty sure that number is pretty low.
i said sexual abuse and rape is a reason victims become promiscious, or even prostitutes. but when they take that abuse and turn it on someonelse, thats when i turn my sympathy radar off, i dont care how old they are.
and i missed you to mz iz and nmk.........
i said sexual abuse and rape is a reason victims become promiscious, or even prostitutes. but when they take that abuse and turn it on someonelse, thats when i turn my sympathy radar off, i dont care how old they are.
and i missed you to mz iz and nmk.........
At no age...EVER. It is horrid, wrong, evil, and sinful. We're just trying to figure out what went haywire so we can get a handle on this thing. Of course, we don't have all the info so it's a shot in the dark.
Listen carefully to what nmk said, kbl, it's all about moral fiber. Thank God you have it. Many don't. We need to figure out why young teens don't or we'll need a permanent thread on these young people.
Listen carefully to what nmk said, kbl, it's all about moral fiber. Thank God you have it. Many don't. We need to figure out why young teens don't or we'll need a permanent thread on these young people.
mz iz i know you guys went thru hell, and the struggle of even getting that little freak prosecuted.......and then the judge slaps you all in the face with an 8 day sentence. 8 whopping days. whoopeeeeeeeeee. and what happened? he's still the sick pedo he was then. he never changed, whatever his age was.
if this girl does this at 15 what might she do by 30? <<shudder>>>
if this girl does this at 15 what might she do by 30? <<shudder>>>
you can give kids (or adults) all the moral fiber possible and if they are just sick evil people it will not take.......
to me if you can do something like this, at whatever age, you had that in your nature to begin with. people do not just up and decide to sell there sister to be raped cause they themselves were abused.......
its why im totally blown away by the jaycee and elizabeth comparison.......whatever happened to them, whatever they endured, whatever they chose to run or not, they never did something like this.....
to me if you can do something like this, at whatever age, you had that in your nature to begin with. people do not just up and decide to sell there sister to be raped cause they themselves were abused.......
its why im totally blown away by the jaycee and elizabeth comparison.......whatever happened to them, whatever they endured, whatever they chose to run or not, they never did something like this.....
tlcya
mother daughter sister wife friend paralegal
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2009
- Messages
- 43,577
- Reaction score
- 79,192
OT but fyi: Thank all of you who commented on the above situation - I am shaking right now as I type. A person I have long been concerned about who has had longterm contact with my granddaughter and I suspect may have been her abuser is now being investigated in the suspicious death of a four year old.
oceanblueeyes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 26,446
- Reaction score
- 43,712
I do have to agree with you and that leap seems to happen almost every time a female offender is involved. Why do some seem to immediately assume that the female perpetrator was an abuse victim? I have read so much about sexual deviants and predators over the years and so many of them were never abused at all.
And really when it comes to the justice system what difference does it make? Using the excuse that they were abused... so therefore they can abuse others, in no way shape or form, nullifies the wrongdoings and actions taken by the offender themselves.
And somehow it makes me feel very uncomfortable and sad for the true victim in this case. There is no way in the world to rationalize away what her own sister facilitated. FGS! She allowed her own little sister to be repeatedly raped by these vile creeps and did it for financial gain which is all the more sickening.
I don't know anyone personally that has gone on to be an abuser of children because they were abused in their childhood. However I have attended more advocacy group meetings that I can count where those abused in childhood and are now grown or teens and they have one common trait. They are OVERPROTECTIVE when it comes to children. The ones I have known do not offer up small children like sacrificial lambs.
Children know right from wrong around the age of 7 or 8 and this girl knew exactly what she was doing as horrible and depraved as it was. She knew but IMO she just didn't care as long as it was profitable for her.
I hope they throw the book at her.:furious:
imo
tlcya
mother daughter sister wife friend paralegal
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2009
- Messages
- 43,577
- Reaction score
- 79,192
Well. I am sort of at a loss as to what is left to discuss on the thread.
We know the who, the where, the how and the when of this awful crime. The sister set up her little sis to be raped/prostituted. That is fact. In my eyes the only question left to dissect is the why, but perhaps I am wrong?
I know that there are many members who get tired of the "abuse card" coming up in case after case. Regardless of whether a perp had a rosy childhood or not - I do not see it as a mitigating factor or any sort of justification for the crimes they have committed. But if we are not going to even discuss the possible whys (and abuse could be one of MANY possible whys), then what exactly is there left to discuss?
We know the who, the where, the how and the when of this awful crime. The sister set up her little sis to be raped/prostituted. That is fact. In my eyes the only question left to dissect is the why, but perhaps I am wrong?
I know that there are many members who get tired of the "abuse card" coming up in case after case. Regardless of whether a perp had a rosy childhood or not - I do not see it as a mitigating factor or any sort of justification for the crimes they have committed. But if we are not going to even discuss the possible whys (and abuse could be one of MANY possible whys), then what exactly is there left to discuss?
and notice, the 7 year old was protective of the 15 year old, and chose right over wrong...
well we could discuss the male rapists childhoods next.
tlcya
mother daughter sister wife friend paralegal
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2009
- Messages
- 43,577
- Reaction score
- 79,192
true, I suppose we could. Some of what I heard on HLN's Issues the other night was really disturbing. I wish I wasn't at work so I could pull up video and quote but the jist was background on the building where this happened. Apparently it is a known thing among tenants there that vacant appartments are used as little illicit hidy holes. For drugs, sex, God knows what else.
It just really got me, imagining growing up in a little subculture within a large housing complex, watching females prostitute themselves for money or drugs. Watching adult males be violent with females, living day in and day out in a setting where societys norms do not apply. I wonder that we don't have more situations like this considering some kids spend their entire childhoods seeing daily examples that right and wrong don't always factor into what you see day in and day out.
It sounds like a setting where the rules of conduct followed by middle america just don't even apply.
Makes me thankful I am not trying to raise children with those kinds of odds stacked against them coming out as normal, well adjusted citizens of the world.
Belinda
Doer of Things
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5,668
- Reaction score
- 82
I'm going to have to agree with those that feel the girl knew what she was doing. Whether previously abused herself or not, it really doesn't change the facts of the situation. She knowingly sold her little sister to a bunch of pedophiles and then proceeded to supervise the rapes. I don't find previous abuse to be any sort of excuse for becoming an abuser. Plenty of people who have been viciously abused never do anything wrong themselves. I also think that 15 is not by any means a child. While maybe not fully developed, they have a strong sense of right and wrong by that time. This was not simply the poor decision-making abilities of a teenager. This was out-and-out pimping her sister for money. I absolutely believe she should be tried as an adult for the adult crime she perpetrated. I still think the bottom line was just good old-fashioned greed for money.
I'm unclear if anyone thinks that I am promoting the idea that the 15 year old has been sexually abused. I'm not. None of us has a clue as to her history--everything is conjecture at this point. Prior sexual abuse is never an "excuse" for the crime. Never.
That said, what I've been looking at and questioning is this teen's upbringing and live experience. Is she traumatized, was she exposed prenatally to drugs/alcohol, has she witnessed violence, was she born with any sort of cognitive deficit. Does she have a support system, an intact family, is she engaged in her education? All of these are important components of her life, mitigating factors IMO--not excuses--but mitigating factors. Just as a judge considers them, I also do.
My point, all along, is that the environments in which we (as a society, not WSers) are raising many of our impressionable children is not conducive IMO to raising healthy adults. I know many of you are very vocal about your own ability to rise above abuse and neglect and I applaud you and admire you deeply. However, I'm really questioning how many people on WS have really lived with or spent time children who don't have that "moral fiber" or built in conscience due to the factors I listed above. It's a whole different ball game and everything you know and hold sacred goes right out the window when those factors have occurred and a moral base and attachment to others have failed to develop. Simply locking up this child will do nothing more than to keep society safe from her for a set number of years. While that has value, we still must look to the future and consider her condition, post detention. We also must look at her crime and determine if there is anything we, as a society, can learn from this. Can we do something to protect the next 7 year old?
The reason I brought up Jaycee and Elizabeth (and I'm sorry I did) is that I was trying to make the point that even bright, beloved little girls can be mind controlled in such a way to stymie them from getting help when they need it. Imagine what it would be like living in an apt. filled with drug dealing, fractured families and carrying around the monkey on your back of prenatal drug exposure and/or neglect? kbl, please note that I am in no way comparing those young women to this girl. I am NOT. I was trying to make a point.
ITA, that most abusers grow up to be fine and loving parents--thank God. I do believe that our most fragile children, however, who are abused can be destined to a life of violence, drug use, early pregnancy, and yes--child abuse. Read the studies, study the statistics. Ask me. I've linked over and over to the US Children's Bureau site. Peruse it.
I ask that each of you who are survivors and who are fine parents or appropriately caring for others' children, consider what made a difference for you. Something must have. Was it a loving parent, an inner resolve, your faith?
The point I am valiantly struggling to make is that your reality is not everyone's reality. I am sorely concerned for all the children (yes even the males, of course) involved in this horrid crime.
That said, what I've been looking at and questioning is this teen's upbringing and live experience. Is she traumatized, was she exposed prenatally to drugs/alcohol, has she witnessed violence, was she born with any sort of cognitive deficit. Does she have a support system, an intact family, is she engaged in her education? All of these are important components of her life, mitigating factors IMO--not excuses--but mitigating factors. Just as a judge considers them, I also do.
My point, all along, is that the environments in which we (as a society, not WSers) are raising many of our impressionable children is not conducive IMO to raising healthy adults. I know many of you are very vocal about your own ability to rise above abuse and neglect and I applaud you and admire you deeply. However, I'm really questioning how many people on WS have really lived with or spent time children who don't have that "moral fiber" or built in conscience due to the factors I listed above. It's a whole different ball game and everything you know and hold sacred goes right out the window when those factors have occurred and a moral base and attachment to others have failed to develop. Simply locking up this child will do nothing more than to keep society safe from her for a set number of years. While that has value, we still must look to the future and consider her condition, post detention. We also must look at her crime and determine if there is anything we, as a society, can learn from this. Can we do something to protect the next 7 year old?
The reason I brought up Jaycee and Elizabeth (and I'm sorry I did) is that I was trying to make the point that even bright, beloved little girls can be mind controlled in such a way to stymie them from getting help when they need it. Imagine what it would be like living in an apt. filled with drug dealing, fractured families and carrying around the monkey on your back of prenatal drug exposure and/or neglect? kbl, please note that I am in no way comparing those young women to this girl. I am NOT. I was trying to make a point.
ITA, that most abusers grow up to be fine and loving parents--thank God. I do believe that our most fragile children, however, who are abused can be destined to a life of violence, drug use, early pregnancy, and yes--child abuse. Read the studies, study the statistics. Ask me. I've linked over and over to the US Children's Bureau site. Peruse it.
I ask that each of you who are survivors and who are fine parents or appropriately caring for others' children, consider what made a difference for you. Something must have. Was it a loving parent, an inner resolve, your faith?
The point I am valiantly struggling to make is that your reality is not everyone's reality. I am sorely concerned for all the children (yes even the males, of course) involved in this horrid crime.
well i didnt grow up in the brady bunch mz iz.
i had resolve more then anything......when i was 7, hiding under my bed from my gramps, drunken rages, i swore id never drink myself.
when i was 10 and realized my dad didnt give a rats behind about me, i swore if i had kids id never become that kind of man.
when i was 24 and my grandma passed, i finally realized i couldnt let her hate, control, manipulations and abuse rule my life. and i wouldnt use it as an excuse to be a failure, nor would i ever do to anyonelse what was done to me.
now, i cannot speak for the people here who are sex abuse survivors. but im guessing even those that dabbled in drugs, alchol, promiscous sex ect, never thought to abuse other people, as they were abused. otherwise i dont think they'd be here.
just my opinion
i had resolve more then anything......when i was 7, hiding under my bed from my gramps, drunken rages, i swore id never drink myself.
when i was 10 and realized my dad didnt give a rats behind about me, i swore if i had kids id never become that kind of man.
when i was 24 and my grandma passed, i finally realized i couldnt let her hate, control, manipulations and abuse rule my life. and i wouldnt use it as an excuse to be a failure, nor would i ever do to anyonelse what was done to me.
now, i cannot speak for the people here who are sex abuse survivors. but im guessing even those that dabbled in drugs, alchol, promiscous sex ect, never thought to abuse other people, as they were abused. otherwise i dont think they'd be here.
just my opinion
and i just want a clairfication, mz iz, what exact 'mind control' is the 15 year old under? she may have very well been abused sexually and told not to tell, for fear of what would happen to her, or her family. or she might just be scared to come forward. but she chose, chose to pimp out her sister. none of what was possibly done to her put a gun to her head and made her do that. that's why im having alot of trouble with the comparison.
tia
tia