GUILTY NJ - Gregory Leary & others for sexual assault of 7yo girl, Trenton, 2010

[Missizzy]

Well the 7 year old is clearly not old enough even under that standard.

Forgive me if I misread or misinterpreted your post. I thought you were saying that the 7 year old was not old enough to "bleed".

 

[Missizzy]

And THAT is just what makes me think there is alot more to this than we (or maybe even LE) know...to me it just stinks of pre-arrangement, or something that happens alot in that 'party pad'...the whole thing smells gang-related to me (gangs have started to trend towards the 'old enough to bleed, old enough to breed' mentality in recent years)

JMO as usual

jjenny--this is the post by Skewedview that you responded to. Once again, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you.

 

[Missizzy]

Maybe we need to copy this helpful guide and have it made into a purse or wallet sized card for all kids at around the age of 7-8. Kids move from state to state and often travel with their parents to foreign countries.

Just as we are required to show proof of insurance when we drive a car, maybe we should have to show proof of our regulatory knowledge if we possess genitalia.Maybe it would save some heartache.

http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm


We'd need to update it after each legislative session. Ignorance of the law is never a defense.

 

[songline]

Songline--I think you missed one of my sentences or I wasn't clear enough:

"Jaycee and Elizabeth were physically snatched but they did have ample opportunities to seek help. They felt they could not out of fear and mind control."

I'm very sorry if I'm muddled but I'm trying to make the point that ANY child--troubled or not--can be controlled by those stronger or more powerful than they are. It is all about fear, intimidation, and mind control. I am validating that Jaycee and Elizabeth could NOT seek help even though help was "theoretically" available. They were muted by fear and mind control. I'm agreeing with you.

This teen appears to be a far different girl than either Jaycee or Elizabeth but she is still a child. Growing up in an environment which is apparently extremely violent and not at all child friendly would most likely cause this child to not fully understand that she can and should seek help for her own victimization and with the horrid mistake of leading her younger relative into a dangerous situation. As always, I try to remind everyone that the teen mind is NOT fully developed and is fraught with glitches which cause life-changing events. One must look at the precursors and the presence, or not, of malice.

If it is learned that the 15 year old schemed to have this tiny girl raped, she must be sufficiently punished. If she walked into a wicked situation and everything went downhill from there, I respond differently. We have to remember that otherwise fine and upstanding teens drive while texting everyday and innocent people are killed. Look for the malice in what teens do. That is the tip off for the appropriate sentence. There might be hope for this teen or there might not. We just don't know yet.

The bottom line is that we, as a society, cannot expect healthy upstanding citizens to spring forth from childhoods such as this. Unless one has some sort of a life-line, it just is not feasible.

I do agree with this post, but at home the kids do hopefully learn right from wrong...I lived in the worst part of Brooklyn as a teenager, t was a real ghetto but I learned my moral code in my house.
AND unless they are mentally challenged they DO need to be punished for bad choices or else they do end up getting the message that they are NOT responsible for their behaviour, it does not have to be malice, it can be simply rebellion, or needing attention, or making a bad decision.
AND I do believe they need to be shown that they will pay for those mistakes. or they will continue to make them if the price is a slap on the wrist and a rehab for 6 weeks.
I know you are a mom to a challenged girl, as I am too. but I do know what enabling is too....Sometimes when we think they are not responsible when they are is just as damaging.

 

[jjenny]

Forgive me if I misread or misinterpreted your post. I thought you were saying that the 7 year old was not old enough to "bleed".

Obviously most 7 year old aren't.
There are of course exceptions.

 

[SkewedView]

Obviously most 7 year old aren't.
There are of course exceptions.

I understood what you were trying to say and agree - 7 is so far below even the usual perv level of most gangstas or even pimps that it definitely puts these scumbags in a whole other category of nastiness...which is of course what just boggles my mind about that 'party' and its participants.

 

[SkewedView]

Maybe we need to copy this helpful guide and have it made into a purse or wallet sized card for all kids at around the age of 7-8. Kids move from state to state and often travel with their parents to foreign countries.

Just as we are required to show proof of insurance when we drive a car, maybe we should have to show proof of our regulatory knowledge if we possess genitalia.Maybe it would save some heartache.

http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm


We'd need to update it after each legislative session. Ignorance of the law is never a defense.

Wow, that's some interesting stuff there - really surprised me that there are still states where the age of consent is different depending on if you are a boy or girl.

 

[SuziQ]

Maybe we need to copy this helpful guide and have it made into a purse or wallet sized card for all kids at around the age of 7-8. Kids move from state to state and often travel with their parents to foreign countries.

Just as we are required to show proof of insurance when we drive a car, maybe we should have to show proof of our regulatory knowledge if we possess genitalia.Maybe it would save some heartache.

http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm


We'd need to update it after each legislative session. Ignorance of the law is never a defense.

7-8 years old? Seriously? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. But no 7-8 year old of mine is going to have access to that age innapropriate information.

 

[Missizzy]

Songline--You should feel very fortunate that your family taught you right from wrong and loved you in such a way that you developed a conscience through an appropriate bonding cycle. Tragically, this isn't happening for many many kids these days. They have huge gaping holes in their thinking processes and a lack of conscience. After a certain age, this damage is difficult to fix.

And I hope you think that I am not "enabling". I am just wanting to track back in this story and find out where the "cancer" starting growing. I think many on this board would be downright shocked to see how I actually parent. I'm loving but I am as tough as they come. I rarely give even second chances before someone is "out of the pool". I've been the first to call the police, the probation officer, the FBI time and time again. A probation violation is a violation. A warrant is a warrant. We do not ignore paying our dues in this family. I do NOT want others injured by my children....regardless of the trauma they've endured.

I not only am dedicated to loving the children who came my way but I am dedicated to keeping society safer for all of us.

 

[Missizzy]

SuzieQ--I'm being slightly facetious, but only slightly. Many 1st and 2nd graders in our town have cell phones and there have already been problems with inappropriate photos!! I could have told them that. Kids do stupid things and can exhibit extremely poor judgement. Our kids get their cell phones in their senior year of high school but of course, each family has to make the choice as to what works for them.

After having served on special ed parent councils for years, I'm familiar with the process of getting information approved for curriculum--in regular ed and in Spec.ed. I would guess in our town this info might be introduced at around age 10 (3rd or 4th grade) given the info from the yearly Healthy Teens Survey:

http://www.dhs.state.or.us/dhs/ph/chs/youthsurvey/ohteens/2009/8/sex8.pdf

You'll note that, here in Oregon, 18.8% of all children are having sexual intercourse by 8th grade and a huge 3.3% are having sex before 11. There is some talk about lowering the age of consent laws in states such as Oregon (where it is 18) due to earlier onset of puberty.

I recommend that everyone check out their state's Healthy Teens Survey. It's an excellent barometer of what is going right and wrong in our children's lives.

 

[songline]

Songline--You should feel very fortunate that your family taught you right from wrong and loved you in such a way that you developed a conscience through an appropriate bonding cycle. Tragically, this isn't happening for many many kids these days. They have huge gaping holes in their thinking processes and a lack of conscience. After a certain age, this damage is difficult to fix.

And I hope you think that I am not "enabling". I am just wanting to track back in this story and find out where the "cancer" starting growing. I think many on this board would be downright shocked to see how I actually parent. I'm loving but I am as tough as they come. I rarely give even second chances before someone is "out of the pool". I've been the first to call the police, the probation officer, the FBI time and time again. A probation violation is a violation. A warrant is a warrant. We do not ignore paying our dues in this family. I do NOT want others injured by my children....regardless of the trauma they've endured.

I not only am dedicated to loving the children who came my way but I am dedicated to keeping society safer for all of us.

I am not suggesting that you are enabling, I know that we who have challenged children often think what if that other child is challenged, imbalanced, unfortunate...

BUT not all kids are challenged and many kids just need to be punished for bad behaviour or daring behaviour or rebellious behaviour. not all of it is a problem child. Unfortunately there are also kids who have a real narcissistic personality, or a real care less attitude, and not because they don't have a family who cares. People my age too are still rebellious, self centered, not caring this does not make them privileged to beat the law. it makes then deserving of punishment. we cant always go to that place of WHAT IF she is imbalanced. We have no information on her at all.
As a mother of a mentally challenged daughter with bipolar and personality disorders. I would be first in line to protect a child who is challenged.
I did not hear anything about her, and like I said early on I would like to hear more but due to her age we will not get that information, because she is under age.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Songline--You should feel very fortunate that your family taught you right from wrong and loved you in such a way that you developed a conscience through an appropriate bonding cycle. Tragically, this isn't happening for many many kids these days. They have huge gaping holes in their thinking processes and a lack of conscience. After a certain age, this damage is difficult to fix.

And I hope you think that I am not "enabling". I am just wanting to track back in this story and find out where the "cancer" starting growing. I think many on this board would be downright shocked to see how I actually parent. I'm loving but I am as tough as they come. I rarely give even second chances before someone is "out of the pool". I've been the first to call the police, the probation officer, the FBI time and time again. A probation violation is a violation. A warrant is a warrant. We do not ignore paying our dues in this family. I do NOT want others injured by my children....regardless of the trauma they've endured.

I not only am dedicated to loving the children who came my way but I am dedicated to keeping society safer for all of us.

When I first read some of the things you were writing I also took you wrong.It was only after reading your posts about your kids,that I realized you know first hand the trauma that abused kids went though.You have spent years helping to fix what bad parenting did to those kids.You helped so many of them feel loved and a part of your family.Not just helped I am sure you saved them.Whatever your doing sure is working. I just wanted to say Thank You for caring about those kids and society as well.

 

[mysticrose]

Outrage Follows Arrests in Rape of 7-Year-Old New Jersey Girl
Trenton Mayor Says Family of Gang-Raped Girl 'Going Through a Lot'
By JEREMY HUBBARD April 4, 2010

It's a brutal crime that has traumatized the city of Trenton, N.J., and made headlines across the country and around the globe. Two men and three boys were charged Saturday with gang-raping a 7-year-old girl.

"I think everyone, not just in Trenton, in New Jersey, but across this nation and the world is shocked, outraged and horrified by the barbaric act of monster, pervert rapists and what happened to an innocent angel," Trenton Mayor Doug Palmer said.

Among those arrested are Gregory Joseph Leary, 20, and Timear Lewis, 19. Three underage boys, the youngest 13, have also been arrested and charged with aggravated sexual assault and child endangerment

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/charged-trenton-gang-rape-year/story?id=10283128

 

[mysterygirl]

Unreal.............just unreal.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Police say the 7-year-old girl was worried about her 15-year-old stepsister's safety, so she tagged along to a party March 28 at the crime-ridden Rowan Towers apartment complex in Trenton

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/charged-trenton-gang-rape-year/story?id=10283128

 

[Missizzy]

Before I close down for the night, I want to make it unmistakably clear that I firmly believe in accountability. I believe in punitive measures for crimes. But I also will fight 'til my last breath for rehabilitative services in juvenile facilities and prisons. Unless we can give a human being some incentive to better themselves, some glimmer of a better future, we are never going to win the war on crime. We simply do not have the funds to lock up every criminal forever.

We are going to have to look to other countries, other models, and move fast--with extreme creativity--to come up with a workable plan. We're not going to save or turn around all criminals. We're going to make some horrid mistakes but the very tenets of our society says that we must try.

I'm so sorry I rant and rave about damaged children and the broken psyche and the gaping holes in the human brain but I live on the front line. I've seen what works and what doesn't work. I've held babies that are already lost to us at age 6 months--who have already learned not to trust. I've seen adult anger or indifference in the eyes of a 6 year old. I've seen and felt and smelled and tasted the pain of the unbonded, un-imprinted, lost child and I know that very very few have these illusory bootstraps that so many wish they would pull themselves out of the gutter by. So often we try to overlay our realities on others and our reality is rarely that of another human being's.

Without more services and prudent planning and spending and without engaging American's families we are going to create a subsociety which has no conscience, no ability to care, no shame. That is vision that should strike fear in our hearts.

We think we know this 15 year old. We each have a vision of her in our mind. Some of us are harshly judging her while others are waiting to hear more. The fact is that none of us knows what path she has walked and what experiences have formed her teen mind. My guess is that her personality, her life-view falls somewhere in the middle of what we collectively imagine. She could be evil to the core with no thought except for herself. She could be a very damaged and confused girl with no strength, incentive, or ability to crawl out of the hell she's living in.

How I wish she could tell her story so that we all might learn and ponder what some of the answers could be for the hundreds of thousands of other 15 year olds who desperately need someone to stop, turn around, and determine what in heaven's name has gone wrong.

 

[Sheromom]

Before I close down for the night, I want to make it unmistakably clear that I firmly believe in accountability. I believe in punitive measures for crimes. But I also will fight 'til my last breath for rehabilitative services in juvenile facilities and prisons. Unless we can give a human being some incentive to better themselves, some glimmer of a better future, we are never going to win the war on crime. We simply do not have the funds to lock up every criminal forever.

We are going to have to look to other countries, other models, and move fast--with extreme creativity--to come up with a workable plan. We're not going to save or turn around all criminals. We're going to make some horrid mistakes but the very tenets of our society says that we must try.

I'm so sorry I rant and rave about damaged children and the broken psyche and the gaping holes in the human brain but I live on the front line. I've seen what works and what doesn't work. I've held babies that are already lost to us at age 6 months--who have already learned not to trust. I've seen adult anger or indifference in the eyes of a 6 year old. I've seen and felt and smelled and tasted the pain of the unbonded, un-imprinted, lost child and I know that very very few have these illusory bootstraps that so many wish they would pull themselves out of the gutter by. So often we try to overlay our realities on others and our reality is rarely that of another human being's.

Without more services and prudent planning and spending and without engaging American's families we are going to create a subsociety which has no conscience, no ability to care, no shame. That is vision that should strike fear in our hearts.

We think we know this 15 year old. We each have a vision of her in our mind. Some of us are harshly judging her while others are waiting to hear more. The fact is that none of us knows what path she has walked and what experiences have formed her teen mind. My guess is that her personality, her life-view falls somewhere in the middle of what we collectively imagine. She could be evil to the core with no thought except for herself. She could be a very damaged and confused girl with no strength, incentive, or ability to crawl out of the hell she's living in.

How I wish she could tell her story so that we all might learn and ponder what some of the answers could be for the hundreds of thousands of other 15 year olds who desperately need someone to stop, turn around, and determine what in heaven's name has gone wrong.

I think we already HAVE created that subsociety. And I truly fear that they ARE taking over. I seriously believe that this girl might well be a member of that subsociety. I can't help but wonder about the family dynamics. Is the fact that she is not "related" to the little girl a cause for extreme jealously in her life? This case is one I just can't dwell on for too long; it just makes me heartsick. I have had three 15 year old daughters. Fortunately, they have all been very wonderful and a pleasure to my own life. But if any of them had done this thing..............I just don't know how I would feel about them. I DO believe that the 15-year-old has likely led a very traumatic life and that she needs help and support. She IS just a child; a little girl. BUT the rest of society needs to be protected from her; she is DANGEROUS!!!!

 

[Sheromom]

SuzieQ--I'm being slightly facetious, but only slightly. Many 1st and 2nd graders in our town have cell phones and there have already been problems with inappropriate photos!! I could have told them that. Kids do stupid things and can exhibit extremely poor judgement. Our kids get their cell phones in their senior year of high school but of course, each family has to make the choice as to what works for them.

After having served on special ed parent councils for years, I'm familiar with the process of getting information approved for curriculum--in regular ed and in Spec.ed. I would guess in our town this info might be introduced at around age 10 (3rd or 4th grade) given the info from the yearly Healthy Teens Survey:

http://www.dhs.state.or.us/dhs/ph/chs/youthsurvey/ohteens/2009/8/sex8.pdf

You'll note that, here in Oregon, 18.8% of all children are having sexual intercourse by 8th grade and a huge 3.3% are having sex before 11. There is some talk about lowering the age of consent laws in states such as Oregon (where it is 18) due to earlier onset of puberty.

I recommend that everyone check out their state's Healthy Teens Survey. It's an excellent barometer of what is going right and wrong in our children's lives.

Missizzy, I did have a sister with a seven year old daughter that began growing pubic hairs. She (my sister) simply could not believe what was happening and immediately took my neice to the Doctor. It was only one hair but it was long and my sister was totally freaked out! The first thing the Doctor did was to question my sister about the possibility of sexual abuse. In this case, it turned out to be a growth hormone problem (that thankfully, was easily corrected) but I do recognize that many of our young ones, babies, really, ARE indeed, going through puberty very early. I am thinking that mothers need to be ready to tell these daughters that they are just fine; that they are loved, NORMAL and beautiful!
I.E. My sister recently died of a heart attack related to alcohol and drug abuse but my neice is still doing well.

As far as the photos go, I think maybe they really aren't so different from how we were; we just didn't have the phones! Really; how many of us over fifty DIDN'T play Doctor with the opposite sex? It seemed innocent in our age, though; not so anymore.

Must say, I always appreciate your posts. I don't post often as I work so very full time and have a house full of kids still but I do try to at least keep up with the "crimes" section.

 

[tlcya]

Police say the 7-year-old girl was worried about her 15-year-old stepsister's safety, so she tagged along to a party March 28 at the crime-ridden Rowan Towers apartment complex in Trenton

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/charged-trenton-gang-rape-year/story?id=10283128

Unfortunately, it sounds as if the 7 year old victim had a hell of a lot more sense that the sister, poor baby. I hope and pray that serious long term psychological health care is made available to this poor child for as long as is needed.

 

[Missizzy]

Sheromom--Thanks for your kind words. You brought up a good point about the girls not being biologically related, nor seemingly raised together. There's been a good bit of research lately concerning one of the factors which protects children from sexual abuse. If the older child has actually seen the younger child parented--nursed, fed, cuddled, etc. they are far less likely to sexually abuse that child. Interestingly enough, this societal taboo also exists in many animal groups/packs. These correlations never surprise me.

This is one of the reasons that foster families, blended families, and adoptive families who adopt "out of sequence" have a hard time of it. The older children have not built up the normal empathy for the younger child and thus, objectify them. It would stand to reason (I'll see if I can find a link) that this "protection" would also extend to male partners. We read all the time of new boyfriends who abuse little ones. That is a dangerous combination as the men are not imprinted with empathy and love for that particular child.

Now, please understand that I am NOT saying that this dynamic protects all children. We know of horrid cases here on the threads where biological fathers and mothers and other relatives have sexually abused their children. We also know of untold numbers of young boyfriends who would never harm a child no matter how long he's known the child. Just some interesting research IMO.