NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

[Legacy]

I might be wrong here...but....I believe CT's brother was a Texas Ranger maybe...I know he was in Texas...I've been trying to find my source on that. But I do believe he was in Texas.

I show CT's brother had children in 1958 and 1963 in Reeves County, Texas (where Pecos is located), so I would assume he was living in Pecos or a smaller surrounding town during those years.

 

[mnegri1973]

I show CT's brother had children in 1958 and 1963 in Reeves County, Texas (where Pecos is located), so I would assume he was living in Pecos or a smaller surrounding town during those years.

I was trying to pull all of your post Legacy, with Anne's post as well, but I am not so savvy with how to do that, but IF CT's brother was a ranger, I would think that he would be listed on the Ranger's website....because I have NO CLUE why CT would come a few days after the murders to check out the crime scene.....I mean, my logic is this, if the FBI can't come into a case until ASKED, why would a small town cop from a different state think that HE had jurisdiction....and even IF CT's brother was a Ranger, he would STILL not have any right to being there.

And Anne, I don't blame you for wanting to steer clear of CT.....my hair stood on end when I read what you said about him trying to track you down the way he has been.....freaked me out and it was not even happening to me...

 

[Legacy]

From what I have gleaned, CT and JT and their other siblings were raised in Pecos.

 

[fish1966]

just, no I am a Taurus...fish just came to me and has no significance. From in front of the Arrowhead Church St. goes straight east. Past the Roberts and further east in the beach area. It is the Pecos River for swimming and at that time it was a city type of amusement park. That is the tickets for the rides that was mentioned from the Gaines boy. There was small train rides, tilt-a-whirl, ferris wheel, etc.

 

[mnegri1973]

Is it listed anywhere who it was that came with CT to view the crime scene?

 

[BellaBlue]

Justthinkin, thank you for the welcome to WS. Yes, I have been a long time daily lurker on this forum. I was inspired to finally join when the case of Patty and Mattie was put on here. I have followed Sunshine's journey to find answers on several forums and I am so glad that this case in now on WS.

 

[Hurricane]

I just turned 61 this year and there is a Linda Roberts that I remember a year behind me in school. Everyone involved that was listed as people to to talk to in Linda's testimony was my age. We all went to Eisenhower Jr. High. The only one old by one year was Margaret Warble.

On your map that you posted all the pins are in the correct places. Put the Arrowhead on the NE corner of Church and Mesquite facing south.[/

quote]

I've corrected the Arrowhead location and added a pin for the beach. Let me know if anything is incorrect. Click on each map to enlarge.

 

[Hurricane]

Hurricane, thanks for the map. That's really helpful.

I did notice that you have two streets listed as N. Mesquite.

I'm guessing one of the two should be labeled as Patty's house?

Since I'm not a local, I'm not sure I understand why the girls would've passed Linda Lou's house. Was this on the way to and from the Beach, and is the Beach on the map you've provided?

Thanks in advance.

In trying to make the map as large as possible I had clipped off the house numbers. It did look like I had made two east-west streets named N. Mesquite. See the new and improved version of the maps in my other post.

 

[Legacy]

Is it listed anywhere who it was that came with CT to view the crime scene?

Excerpt from Estrada's summary report:

"He stated that he and a colleague of his from that time period had traveled to Carlsbad 3 days after the girls were found. He stated they had met with Dan McGrew who had taken them to the scene where the bodies were found and that they were still processing the scene. Mr. Titus indicated that he had noted that there were not many footprints or tire tracks at the scene. He stated that the scene appeared to have been processed and basically all physical evidence had been recovered and was not available. Mr. Titus stated that he and his colleague had visited with Mr. McGrew and eventually left back to Texas where they were from. Mr. Titus indicated that he had offered his services if they were needed to the deputy."

 

[Finder50]

The one thing that I find interesting is that if you follow the direction of the vehicle as given by Mr. Brunnel about the car turning right or west on Bonbright St. Then it is a straight run up Bonbright St. to N. Olive and WB & AB's house is the third house to the north. This is a time elapse of one to one-half minutes. This is interesting since Bonnie would have been home with the children.

 

[Legacy]

SS1950, Have you ever spoken with Dan McGrew's family? Did they ever dispute the suicide ruling that you know of? Do you know where his family was from?

Blair, Titus, Hawkins, and McGrew all seem so interconnected - maybe we should check military records as a possibility. Why would McGrew have let an outside law enforcement agency have access to the crime scene, unless Hawkins o.k.'d it? Why did Titus return to do ride alongs with McGrew, and even visit the Restine household with him as he stated? Why were the wives also included in some of these visits with Titus when he was in Carlsbad? Why was Hawkins so quick to send Parsons away --- and to rule McGrew's death a suicide? Who shoots themselves in the chest to commit suicide - wouldn't a head shot have been preferred?

The McGrew family may hold the secret of the connection. Perhaps they would be willing to share details.

 

[Legacy]

The one thing that I find interesting is that if you follow the direction of the vehicle as given by Mr. Brunnel about the car turning right or west on Bonbright St. Then it is a straight run up Bonbright St. to N. Olive and WB & AB's house is the third house to the north. This is a time elapse of one to one-half minutes. This is interesting since Bonnie would have been home with the children.

Weren't the B's living on Texas Street at the time of the murders? I do see where they may have moved to Olive Street later. But, Texas Street is in fairly close proximity to this area as well. We'll have to check it out...

It sounds like DB and BB lived somewhere other than with the parents, since BB said his parents showed up after DB started packing to go to Monahans that evening.

 

[Legacy]

I suppose it is also merely a coincidence that NM Democratic Party leader, TE "Gene" Lusk from Carlsbad committed "suicide" in February, 1969 in a restroom near his wife's hospital room where she was recovering from a brain tumor surgery for which a full recovery was expected. He was the attorney (along with his partner) who represented Parsons and was likely well versed with the specifics of this case.

He was a state-wide known politician who had everything going for him. In an unexpected upset in which he was considered the favorite, he had lost a 1966 bid for the governor's race - but all indications were that he could have run again - possibly successfully.

It bears mentioning, if nothing else...

 

[2gone]

Is it listed anywhere who it was that came with CT to view the crime scene?

I am guessing it was Artell Blair. Just a hunch, if CT is the person who refuses to talk to investigators about the case without her being present. (who has ever heard of such a thing?) I don't believe there was much documentation in this case that wasn't doctored to decieve and therefore make unsolvable. Knowing that the first persons (2 we are told) to report finding the bodies was the prime suspect's father (an influentual person within the law enforcement community) and a person who was not someone he would normally call to go hunting, have coffee..etc., with but but would make a good witness, (like maybe a fellow church member or ?)makes any kind of "official documentation" of photos, autopsies or statements suspect. This is the heart of the problem. As long as Artell is living she must have some damning evidence to keep the other old farts from talking. Artell and WB were very active in helping DB leave town that night. This we know from DB's wife (as far as what happened late that evening) which she saw firsthand but did not know the cause for such panic actions. I think the next person involved was CT, who probably didn't know the circumstances...I 'll give him that... the one question about what happened to DB's car is still out there. Maybe the car, along with the gun are buried out there and only those two know. Not so far fetched now to believe after knowing what our military have found buried in the great deserts of Iraq.

 

[Finder50]

Weren't the B's living on Texas Street at the time of the murders? I do see where they may have moved to Olive Street later. But, Texas Street is in fairly close proximity to this area as well. We'll have to check it out...

It sounds like DB and BB lived somewhere other than with the parents, since BB said his parents showed up after DB started packing to go to Monahans that evening.

I thought that it was David who lived on Texas St. when Mr. Smith on Standpipe Rd. turned him in for shooting near his house. If indeed it was the parents that lived on Texas St. then that also makes sense because Texas St goes out to the Truck By-Pass that intersects Hwy. 285 just south of the site where the girls were found.

 

[Legacy]

I thought that it was David who lived on Texas St. when Mr. Smith on Standpipe Rd. turned him in for shooting near his house. If indeed it was the parents that lived on Texas St. then that also makes sense because Texas St goes out to the Truck By-Pass that intersects Hwy. 285 just south of the site where the girls were found.

Here's the source from Estrada's summary reports:

"Sunday, August 13, 1961, had interview with subject Willie Dee Blair, 2412 W. Texas St., Carlsbad, New Mexico, age 43, who was one of two subjects finding ..."

You make a good point, Finder50. The route that you mentioned would leave less possibility of someone noticing the girls in their distressed state, if they were still alive at the time the road was traveled. Carlsbad is now a major tourist area (I don't know the development history of the Caverns or how it would have been in 1961), but going unnoticed would have been important for whoever killed the girls and/or disposed of their bodies.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I am going to say something here in behalf of Mr. TT, whom I don't know, but I do know the caliber of this person's postings over the LAST YEAR here on WebSleuths, and his intuition is amazing.

I see he is leaving this thread, and I interpret that as a big loss. He never posts a whole lot, but what he posts is usually profound.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr. TT is leaving. I hope and pray that I didn't post something that hurt his feelings. I would like for him to stay...because he does make me think....and that is why I'm on here. To hear and learn insight about this case...I don't know everything and you people on here have already made me think of things that I never even thought of before...so please stay with us Mr. TT
Sincerely,

 

[Sunshine 1950]

The one thing that I find interesting is that if you follow the direction of the vehicle as given by Mr. Brunnel about the car turning right or west on Bonbright St. Then it is a straight run up Bonbright St. to N. Olive and WB & AB's house is the third house to the north. This is a time elapse of one to one-half minutes. This is interesting since Bonnie would have been home with the children.

I don't think DB & BB lived with DB parent's...I'm pretty sure they had their own home. And if that is where WB & AB lived...on Olive St...that isn't where DB lived at the time of the murders.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

SS1950, Have you ever spoken with Dan McGrew's family? Did they ever dispute the suicide ruling that you know of? Do you know where his family was from?

Blair, Titus, Hawkins, and McGrew all seem so interconnected - maybe we should check military records as a possibility. Why would McGrew have let an outside law enforcement agency have access to the crime scene, unless Hawkins o.k.'d it? Why did Titus return to do ride alongs with McGrew, and even visit the Restine household with him as he stated? Why were the wives also included in some of these visits with Titus when he was in Carlsbad? Why was Hawkins so quick to send Parsons away --- and to rule McGrew's death a suicide? Who shoots themselves in the chest to commit suicide - wouldn't a head shot have been preferred?

The McGrew family may hold the secret of the connection. Perhaps they would be willing to share details.

No I haven't talked with any of the McGrew family. I do know that Estrada talked to the daughter...but he said she didn't know anything...but she did think maybe Dan was murdered as well. I believe that the family was from Louisana. But again I'm only going on what I was told. I believe the Hawkins and Titus families knew each other. I know there is a Tommy Hawkins that lived in Kermit, Texas...but I'm not sure he is the Tommy Hawkins from Carlsbad. But I do have an obit...that connects the families...I'll see if I can find that...like I said...don't every let your children clean your house...I think they threw away my notebook on the Hawkins and Blair bunch!

 

[Carlsbad Native]

This murder case has bothered me almost since the day it happened...nearly 50 years ago. I would like to write some things I remember about it, and hopefully it will jog someone else's memory. Up front, I want to state: I'm not saying everything I remember is exactly how things happened--but it is as I remember it.

When the girls were reported missing, all of the volunteer fireman in the Carlsbad area were asked to join search parties and my dad did. For some reason, the authorities thought Mattie and Patty might be "lost" somewhere out toward Dark Canyon (past Standpipe Road area) so this is where the majority of searchers were focusing. When the search was called off (because Mattie and Patty's bodies were found) my dad came home and immediately our lives were never the same. For the first time ever, we started locking our doors at night, and "watching" all the cars and trucks that came down our road. We were "on alert." It was such a terrible, sad time for all the people in Carlsbad (and unbearable for the Pritz and Restine families). Everyone I knew felt that a murderer(s) was getting by with it....and apparently, so far, he/she has.

I grew up with Connie Jo although we weren't best friends, we "ran" around in the same crowd in high school....we went to lots of dances at the Legion Hut, and she rode horses with us on weekends. I never heard her mention Patty's murder, so I don't know how much it impacted her life. Nearly everyone mentioned it from time to time, we all respected Connie Jo to much to bring it up around her.

While I was in high school (probably in 1963), one Friday morning during school, RR asked me out on a date and we went to the Big Sky Drive In (outdoor movie theater) the next night. There were a couple more kids with us, and we were having a great time, but when he tried to kiss me, I was really "turned off" by him. The next week at school I mentioned (to one of my girlfriends) that I went out with him and she said, "Don't you know who he is." And then she told me he was suspected of killing Patty Sue and Mattie. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I had cold chills run down my spine...and I never forgot the feeling I had about him. He finally got the hint from my "cold shoulder" treatment and left me alone. Years later, when I read what Anne had written,(as she tried to keep people interested in the case, bless her heart) I contacted her to ask if his name had ever come up concerning the case. She told me it had and he had passed the lie detector test so he wasn't a person of interest. However, I have always had a "gut feeling that he knew more" than he said.

Also over the years, some people here in Carslbad have talked about the case and some people have stated that they thought it was McGrew or Patty's step dad who was the perp. People still talk about the murder of Mattie and Patty and wonder why it hasn't been solved. Of course, if the LE never looks, how can they find the perp(s)? Even if he/she is dead, they can still be named, IMHO.


Every weekend as we go to our mountain home in Queen, we past the crosses that were erected near the place where the girls were found. I never go past them without thinking of those two little girls' lives that were cut short. I pray this case is solved soon--as it has gone on way to long!

I had a couple more thoughts but they have left me now (sign of old age)...smile. I will write more "memories" later.

God Bless! and let's keep asking questions, and looking for the killer(s). If I can help in any way I can, I will.