NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

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justthinkin said:
I see where I made a mistake in thinking that Blair and Melton were on the first road heading north off of Sitting Bull Falls Rd. when Blair saw the body of Mattie Restine as one of the last articles SS1950 posted indicates they were in the pasture on a gravel road when the first sighting occured.

Didn't someone say that Patty Pritz and her family had been neighbors of the Hugheses before moving to her last residence? I forget the street where they lived when the two girls were murdered.

I think we know the answer to who the 20 year old was, but the lack of evidence at the crime scene speaks to an older, more efficient killer.
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The street was called Lewis Ave. now called Mountain View and yes the Pritz and Hughes were neighbors prior to the Pritz moving. This is right off of 8th street.

The Blair's address on Texas street is about 8 blocks from Lewis Ave and is right off of 8th Street.
 
Thanks for answering CN. Where does 804 Legion Ave. come into play which is the address Blair gave for the Hugheses? I looked on google maps, and the only thing that comes up is Legion Street, but those aren't low numbered addresses.

Google doesn't recognize Legion Avenue.
 
justthinkin said:
Thanks for answering CN. Where does 804 Legion Ave. come into play which is the address Blair gave for the Hugheses? I looked on google maps, and the only thing that comes up is Legion Street, but those aren't low numbered addresses.

Google doesn't recognize Legion Avenue.
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I think they left out part of the address or something because the address have to be numbered like 2200 up.

Legion Ave. is a short street that starts on Osborn and dead ends at the top of the hill. It is about 4 streets north of Lewis Ave. and they run parallel with each other. I think the Hughes lived on the corner of Lewis Ave and 8th street but I might be wrong.
 
There is another Legion St. off Orchard near the CARC Farm. Without re-reading 22 pages, I wonder where the "struggle" played into Mr. Bunnel's account of what he witnessed that evening. I think the cops misconstrued it as a "struggle". The girls went into the Arrowhead and bought a 'cherry coke' (that was in Mattie's stomach found in her autopsy) and got back into the car as witnessed by the woman and her daughter that saw them. That tells me that the girls knew the driver of that car or they would have told the employees at the Arrowhead to call the police because they were in danger, not getting back in the car with him. The fact that Earl Nichols' family feel very strongly that he killed them is what I can't figure out, why was he not investigated thouroughly, especially with "scratches on his face" and immediately left town? He was seen at the beach area watching the girls, driving past Linda Lou's house slowing down each time. The fingernail scrapings could be solved so easily now if only the LE would get off their lazy asses and send it in for confirmation.
 
Hopefully, by urging law enforcement to take another look at this case, that means will be accomplished, Bobbi – the re-investigation that is. While we are all a little frustrated with what appears to be lack of activity and law enforcement response to SS1950 on this case, I feel certain a break in that area will come any day...

Bobbi, do you think it was Mattie and Patty who were picked up at the drive-in, or possibly two other girls and a case of mistaken identity? Would they have had time to leave with this person and then return to be seen later by Bunnell?

It does seem there are many conflicting stories in the reports and the newspaper articles. I read now that there were signs of a struggle where their bodies were found, whereas we were thinking this was the dump site and not the murder site.
 
Bobbi said:
There is another Legion St. off Orchard near the CARC Farm. Without re-reading 22 pages, I wonder where the "struggle" played into Mr. Bunnel's account of what he witnessed that evening. I think the cops misconstrued it as a "struggle". The girls went into the Arrowhead and bought a 'cherry coke' (that was in Mattie's stomach found in her autopsy) and got back into the car as witnessed by the woman and her daughter that saw them. That tells me that the girls knew the driver of that car or they would have told the employees at the Arrowhead to call the police because they were in danger, not getting back in the car with him. The fact that Earl Nichols' family feel very strongly that he killed them is what I can't figure out, why was he not investigated thouroughly, especially with "scratches on his face" and immediately left town? He was seen at the beach area watching the girls, driving past Linda Lou's house slowing down each time. The fingernail scrapings could be solved so easily now if only the LE would get off their lazy asses and send it in for confirmation.
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Bobbi, I don't think the Nichols family has come forward with information about him having scratches on his face or leaving town suddenly until now. This is probably something that was a well guarded "family secret or suspicion." The daughter and granddaughter are up in years and are trying to do the right thing by coming forward with their suspicions - and an offer to submit to DNA testing. Like I said before, in law enforcement, this is a "dream tip," because it is new information. Even if nothing comes from it, this family has struggled with this for many years. I'm sure they have good reasons for their suspicions...or they wouldn't come forward - not at 94 and 70 years of age. But, then again, neither would have DB's ex-wife - she was extremely worried for her childrens' sake.
 
It appears there were eight unsolved murders in Eddy County (or close by) from 1957 until 1961. Did they actually solve any?
 
With regard to the 1957 triple homicide of the truck driver and the two abducted women, didn't this occur on the highway that leads out to the potash mines? If I remember correctly they are on the Carlsbad-Hobbs highway and quite a distance from town. Can anyone say how far from Carlsbad this triple homicide occurred and in what proximity to the mines that are located out that way?

I wonder if law enforcement would have checked work schedules of those who might have left the mines during a shift change or overtime release around this time. The theory was that the women were followed from Carlsbad, but could they have also been seen by someone leaving the mines?
 
Charles Cox, the Artesia teacher was found south of Roswell decapitated in December 1960. He was a resident of Eddy County, but he may have been murdered in Chaves County. A Mr. Leonard (do not know first name) from Arkansas was shot three times and his body dumped south of Whites City. These are in addition to the double and triple murders. I do not know as yet the name of the eighth unsolved murder victim.
 
TOM BEYER said:
It appears there were eight unsolved murders in Eddy County (or close by) from 1957 until 1961. Did they actually solve any?
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And the mention of more in nearby Texas counties...wish we had some information on those. I've been searching, but haven't found anything yet. There were two females shot and left in a field near Van Horn, but that is quite a distance from Carlsbad. I'll look for the article.

Does anyone have any information on the homicides they were referring to in neighboring Texas counties, which would have occurred around the time the girls were murdered?
 
Legacy, I have a lot of doubt, too, regarding Mr. Bunnell's eyewitnessing. It was completely dark at 9 PM (MST - no daylight savings time in 1961) in Carlsbad on August 11. Bunnell repeats that he really couldn't see the two that got in the car. He's guessing that they are teenage girls and a man driving. It is weak eyewitness testimony. He really just "sees" two individuals get into a car. We all "want" it to be Mattie & Patty to fill in a critical Blank.
 
I sometimes hate to post because I feel like I'm hogging the thread, but when I get into a case, I get wrapped up in it, and mostly concentrate on one case at a time. If anyone thinks I post too much, I'll try to step back a bit.

Please understand that any scenarios I may make do not mean that's the one I'm sold on. I sometimes will put one together with as much supporting evidence available to make the best case I can for an individual as it comes to me when the info gels into as complete a case as I can make at the time, but it's all still speculation and in the realm of fiction. The scenarios are just a part of the working a case process for me.

Post 78 of this thread mentions a tip from a person who worked as a court reporter at one time for Eddy County. A phone number was given. I looked it up, and that phone number is still viable for that person.

Post #72....One of the oddest pieces in the evidence file that Estrada couldn't account for is a Navy Arms catalog, earmarked at page 13 which consisted of 5 different .36 caliber muzzle loader pistols. This kind of thing makes me think of someone who might have been involved in either reenactments of the civil war or wild west shows or some entertainment provided at a county rodeo or festival. Bill Hickok was known to have carried this model after the Civil War. I wonder if anyone from Carlsbad remembers anyone portraying Hickok in a production as a part of a rodeo or fair or other entertainment?

Since there was no info to back up why it was in the file, we can only speculate that perhaps a spent ball was found in or around the crime scene that was never reported or had disappeared by 1972 when Eddy County couldn't find the investigation reports they had from the 60s. I'm providing a link in case anyone is interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_1851_Navy_Revolver


While googling for Navy Arms Company & .36 caliber pistols I happened upon an auction of a .36 caliber. It was described as "Navy Arms 36 Caliber Sheriffs Model Revolver."
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=136173173

As it turns out many of these are described as Sheriff's model revolvers.

3 detectives tried to reopen the Mattie & Patty case in 1972, but were stonewalled according to one of the former detectives Estrada interviewed.
 
justthinkin said:
I sometimes hate to post because I feel like I'm hogging the thread, but when I get into a case, I get wrapped up in it, and mostly concentrate on one case at a time. If anyone thinks I post too much, I'll try to step back a bit.

Please understand that any scenarios I may make do not mean that's the one I'm sold on. I sometimes will put one together with as much supporting evidence available to make the best case I can for an individual as it comes to me when the info gels into as complete a case as I can make at the time, but it's all still speculation and in the realm of fiction. The scenarios are just a part of the working a case process for me.

Post 78 of this thread mentions a tip from a person who worked as a court reporter at one time for Eddy County. A phone number was given. I looked it up, and that phone number is still viable for that person.

Post #72....One of the oddest pieces in the evidence file that Estrada couldn't account for is a Navy Arms catalog, earmarked at page 13 which consisted of 5 different .36 caliber muzzle loader pistols. This kind of thing makes me think of someone who might have been involved in either reenactments of the civil war or wild west shows or some entertainment provided at a county rodeo or festival. Bill Hickok was known to have carried this model after the Civil War. I wonder if anyone from Carlsbad remembers anyone portraying Hickok in a production as a part of a rodeo or fair or other entertainment?

Since there was no info to back up why it was in the file, we can only speculate that perhaps a spent ball was found in or around the crime scene that was never reported or had disappeared by 1972 when Eddy County couldn't find the investigation reports they had from the 60s. I'm providing a link in case anyone is interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_1851_Navy_Revolver


While googling for Navy Arms Company & .36 caliber pistols I happened upon an auction of a .36 caliber. It was described as "Navy Arms 36 Caliber Sheriffs Model Revolver."
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=136173173

As it turns out many of these are described as Sheriff's model revolvers.

3 detectives tried to reopen the Mattie & Patty case in 1972, but were stonewalled according to one of the former detectives terviewed.
Click to expand...

The reason the gun catalog was in the file was: When J.Lee Cathey threw the three guys theory out....remember Rabe, McCaskey, and Howard...well the story is this...Rabe and one of the other men went cruising for girls the night the girls were killed and the other one had to remain at work...the service station...I'll have to find out which station...I can't remember right now. Anyway...the two borrowed the guys car (the one that had to work) to go cruising in....and when they returned his car he was really nervous (all of this story is told by Cathey) because he had his antique revolver in the glove compartment...and he looked in the glove box and found the gun was still there...so that is why the catalog was there...Estrada said it was in the evidence box when he got it...so he left it there....I know when we had Matties body exhumed....he said he wanted to look and see if there might be a ball (slug) in the coffin and something about the wadding...the wax paper...hoping for it to be the revolver...but there was nothing in the coffin...or the skull. But I always felt like that theory was just something the people put together...why I don't know...but it wasn't correct...
That was the first time Estrada meet with me....before the Blair information came to light.
The three detectives that worked the case were very candid about how they were stonewalled...I feel like one of them will talk about it...but I just haven't felt like I should call him...maybe now is the time...Tulley,Sadler, and Deluche were the detectives names. I don't know if all of them are still alive. Ruth Scott was the ladies name that was mentioned in the report....she was the secretary that worked with all the investigators during the time the orginial investigation was going on and she is still alive as well. She lives in Silver City with her son.
 
Sunshine 1950 said:
The reason the gun catalog was in the file was: When J.Lee Cathey threw the three guys theory out....remember Rabe, McCaskey, and Howard...well the story is this...Rabe and one of the other men went cruising for girls the night the girls were killed and the other one had to remain at work...the service station...I'll have to find out which station...I can't remember right now. Anyway...the two borrowed the guys car (the one that had to work) to go cruising in....and when they returned his car he was really nervous (all of this story is told by Cathey) because he had his antique revolver in the glove compartment...and he looked in the glove box and found the gun was still there...so that is why the catalog was there...Estrada said it was in the evidence box when he got it...so he left it there....I know when we had Matties body exhumed....he said he wanted to look and see if there might be a ball (slug) in the coffin and something about the wadding...the wax paper...hoping for it to be the revolver...but there was nothing in the coffin...or the skull. But I always felt like that theory was just something the people put together...why I don't know...but it wasn't correct...
That was the first time Estrada meet with me....before the Blair information came to light.
The three detectives that worked the case were very candid about how they were stonewalled...I feel like one of them will talk about it...but I just haven't felt like I should call him...maybe now is the time...Tulley,Sadler, and Deluche were the detectives names. I don't know if all of them are still alive. Ruth Scott was the ladies name that was mentioned in the report....she was the secretary that worked with all the investigators during the time the orginial investigation was going on and she is still alive as well. She lives in Silver City with her son.
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Something that has always been at the back of my brain is that Robert Rabe lived in Phoenix, Arizona and DB lived in Phoenix, Arizona when he was in the car wreck...I wonder if Rabe knew Blair? Just a thought. Probably nothing to this...but it has been in my brain for a while....
According to J.Lee Cathey....Rabe kept saying he knew who killed the girls.
 
I've looked up the address of Truett Hughes...WDB friend...according to the original investigative reports he lived at 804 Legion Avenue. This is in the statement WDB gave the police on August 13, 1961
 
One of the pages in here has a date penciled in the margin the month and day of the passing of D McG. Was it Jan or June when he died?
 
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