NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

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What about POI's and weapons they had/family still has? Out of all of the correspondence with others throughout the years, does anyone know who had what types of guns?

I asked the Nichols family about the gun(s) he might have owned. The family dynamics were such that it is not known, especially with all siblings gone now. Nichols was living in a small, older trailer in a low income area of Wichita Falls at the time of his death. The family member I have spoken to does not know who or how his belongings were disposed of/disbursed at his death.

As for gun registration laws during this era, I'm not sure about that. Maybe there is a record in existence somewhere that would tie Nichols to a gun.

The family member does believe he would have owned a gun, as it was quite customary for men to do so during that time.

So, as you can see, although the tip is a good one - unfortunately we don't have all the pieces. I hope law enforcement will step in and delve further into Nichols' background with the tools they have available.
 
This is where someone very familiar with old Chevrolets could really help move us along. I read back over Bunnel's account of the Chevrolet which the man was driving on Mesquite - the same vehicle he saw the two girls get into with the man. This bears noting because if you review Page 6 of this forum of Bunnel's account, you will see what I mean.

In my limited search, I have noted the very large round headlights of the 1953 Chevrolet. One of the witnesses who saw the car in the field later that night stated they were the brightest headlights she had ever seen.

Bunnel's "impression" was that it was a 55 or 56 Chevrolet, but when questioned further and recalling the taillights he stated they were a pointed oval and leaned more toward the vehicle being a 55. I believe this would describe some of the Chevrolet models for the 53 year as well. He is describing a vehicle several years old (at least 5) at this point and I suppose the margin for error could be greater than for the newer models.

A key point Bunnel makes is it was his thought that it was a two door vehicle, the same as Nichols'. The girls were hurriedly escorted into the vehicle making him think they were put in the front seat of the vehicle.

The way he describes the vehicle pulling ahead of the girls by a couple of house lengths and then meeting them on the sidewalk makes me think he "ambushed" the girls. By appearing as if he were going to visit or lived at the residence he parked in front of, the girls would have probably thought nothing of the vehicle stopping in front of them, until he met them on the sidewalk and "convinced" them to get in the vehicle. Bunnel's account does not sound like this would be how someone who knew the girls and who they would have gone with willingly would have approached them.

By this time it was dark and Bunnel's vision indicated the man was of a medium build and wearing a white undershirt type tee-shirt. Nichols' family has indicated that this was his approximate body size and normal shirt attire. Bunnel did not see what type pants he was wearing, but the family member also indicates they never recall seeing Nichols in jeans, but rather a khaki type pant. The man was described by Bunnel as having a mature voice. Nichols family has already indicated that Nichols had a much younger physique than would have been normal for his age and in the dark may have appeared to be 27-30 years of age. Remember, Bunnel's sight was limited by the darkness and the shadows.

When plugging what we have heard about Nichols into the eyewitness account of Bunnel, he seems to fit as a prime suspect again in many respects - almost chillingly so IMO.

This is where we'll have to start the old model year characteristic breakdown. We also have measurements of tire to tire distance if this helps determine a year of the vehicle at the body site. Is anyone an old Chevrolet aficionado? This is definitely not my forte, although I could be a quick study with a little time to devote.
 
Legacy - First, there was no gun registration back then. That silliness didn't come along until 1968.

Secondly, everything back then had round headlights and there wasn't a great lot of difference between brightness until the newer halogen lights cars use today came along.

I take the comment about how bright the headlights were with a grain of salt. They could have SEEMED really bright simply because the way the car was facing just happened to shine them directly into people's eyes on the highway.

Taillights in the dark can be very difficult to judge their true shape simple because it's a soft, rather diffused and dissipated sort of light. And when someone steps on the brakes, it becomes much brighter, of course, and is almost a glare. The end result is it's tricky to judge.

None of the 50 series Chevrolets had what I would call an "oval" taillight. Almost all had round. The 55 chevy used what I would describe as an "upside down shield" shape.

But again...what shape these or any taillight might seem to a casual observer at night is anyone's guess. The 59 Chevy had a very distinctive taillight lens but they were the exception to the rule.
 
August 11, 1961 occurred under a new moon, so the moon was dark. Wonder how many street lamps they had on Mesquite St., and their location? It's probably the same today if anyone can check on that.

I second what Pecos said about all headlights being about equal back then. They were far more standardized than today.

The taillight portion of the rear lamps would've been the round section in the middle. Above that would've been a reflector I'm thinking with a very small bulb. Don't hold me to that.
I doubt the vehicle had turn lamps because I remember when people gave hand signals if they were turning.

The taillights should've been a 2 phased bulb, serving not only to lighten up the rear of the vehicle, but also burn brighter when the brakes were applied. I can't remember. It could be all we used to see was the reflector & the taillights would come on only when the brakes were applied. Anyone have a better memory?

Dark of the moon, headlights and taillights would have both looked far brighter than usual.

I was too young in 1953 to remember, so I am recalling from a few years later. I know cars didn't have a/c back then. Least I don't think so. My family had a 53 Mercury which we drove to California. Had an old evaporative cooler that attached to the window. Didn't work too well driving through Death Valley. That I do remember well!

Taillights were much weaker back then than they are now. Really weak! But if the night's pitch black, they're going to look a lot stronger.
 
From Post 139 Report by Melvin L. Miller:

"Tire Track Measurements: Outside to Outside 5'5"; Inside to Inside 4'6"; Width of Tire Tread 5 1/8." Appeared to have one good tire showing treads on right front, other 3 tires left no tread marks. There had been a very light rain that had fallen on scene since evidence was left. Footprint was later found (from plaster casts) to be size 7 1/2, with identical to "Armorcork" (brand name) sole."
 
JT, taillights DID burn all the time when the vehicle's lights were on...same as today. And the second and brightest filament only burned when the brakes were depressed.

As for street lights, the way I remember things back then is there were about as many lights then as now.

The first vehicle I ever rode in that had a sure enough factory air conditioner was, believe it or not, a 1954 Ford. I remember it because it was such a novelty. But getting factory air on a vehicle came much slower for most folks. Most vehicles probably didn't see such a thing until the mid 60s.

Am I showing my age here?

------------------

Now let me throw a curve ball into this discussion of bright headlights. If I remember correctly, it was mentioned that DB had twin spotlights on his car. These could have added to the impression of the lady on the Carlsbad highway about the "brightest lights" I've ever seen on a car.

In addition, many spotlights of that era could use some of the smaller landing light bulbs of aircraft. Such bulbs were a little brighter and better focused than even spotlights.
 
I was eleven years old when this happend and lived close to Carlsbad. My father worked in a neighboring town for their fire department. I remember my father saying he knew where the bodies were found, because a person in the police department had told him the location. My parents and I drove to the location sometime after the girls were found. I remember a tank battery located West and some what North of Hamilton Station & Store. You could see the tank battery from the old US 285. I would look at it every time we went by it, and think of what happened there. We went down the Queens Road (137) each year to go deer hunting also. The tank battery was removed in the early to mid eighties. I'm almost positive the new US 285 goes right through where this tank battery was located. I lived in Carlsbad from 1981-1995 and worked for the city of Carlsbad. I mentioned the murders several times to people that I thought might know something, but no one really wanted to talk about it. The next time I'm down there, I will do a little investigating of where the tank battery was. I now exactly where Hamilton Station & Store was located.
 
I was eleven years old when this happend and lived close to Carlsbad. My father worked in a neighboring town for their fire department. I remember my father saying he knew where the bodies were found, because a person in the police department had told him the location. My parents and I drove to the location sometime after the girls were found. I remember a tank battery located West and some what North of Hamilton Station & Store. You could see the tank battery from the old US 285. I would look at it every time we went by it, and think of what happened there. We went down the Queens Road (137) each year to go deer hunting also. The tank battery was removed in the early to mid eighties. I'm almost positive the new US 285 goes right through where this tank battery was located. I lived in Carlsbad from 1981-1995 and worked for the city of Carlsbad. I mentioned the murders several times to people that I thought might know something, but no one really wanted to talk about it. The next time I'm down there, I will do a little investigating of where the tank battery was. I now exactly where Hamilton Station & Store was located.
 
Here is the response I received on the 1953 Chevrolet posted for sale.

Hi,the paint code is 499 it was a dark green single color.trim# 248.emblem is from Smith Chevrolet in Farmersville.dash color was 2-tone green,creme.hope that helps,thanks.


**Doesn't look like our vehicle, but was impressed with this person's response and willingness to help. I think I'll ask him to keep an eye out for any other 1953's which he might come across, especially those at any time from Texas...'

UPDATE: I just emailed --chevyman and asked him to join us here to offer any assistance he can. Also, asked that he keep an eye out for other 2 door 1953 Chevrolets for us...
 
Great sleuthing *Legacy*! I had a boyfriend in the early 1970's who was a Chevy car restorer and he had a '55 and '57 Chevy (2 door Bel Air) that I remember quite well. They were primed gray at the time but I do remember the '55 had smaller back tail light design and the '57 had taller pointed fins on top, both had half oval lights with the white lights under them.
BTW, after speaking with the Melton girls they didn't offer any info on their grandfather, only that "he never talked much about the murders". I connected with the lady whom I knew that was divorcing a David Blair but she never replied to my query. Sorry folks, I tried.
 
I/we have forwarded the Nichols' tip to ECSO and Wichita Falls P.D. Now we'll wait and see if anything develops.

Now I would like to "turn over the floor" for open discussion as it appears we are at a standstill. Please feel free to post whatever comments you have whether or not they involve Nichols as a a suspect. I appreciate you allowing me the opportunity to express these views and findings.

I did find that Chevrolet manufactured/sold a total 1,477,287 Chevrolets in 1953. This would include all models, so the million to one odds of us finding this specific 2 door model appear to be possible, if not somewhat generous.

It seems you had something you wanted to bring up which might lead us in another direction, Pecos...I'm anxious to hear your thoughts.
 
I/we have forwarded the Nichols' tip to ECSO and Wichita Falls P.D. Now we'll wait and see if anything develops.

Now I would like to "turn over the floor" for open discussion as it appears we are at a standstill. Please feel free to post whatever comments you have whether or not they involve Nichols as a a suspect. I appreciate you allowing me the opportunity to express these views and findings.

I did find that Chevrolet manufactured/sold a total 1,477,287 Chevrolets in 1953. This would include all models, so the million to one odds of us finding this specific 2 door model appear to be possible, if not somewhat generous.

It seems you had something you wanted to bring up which might lead us in another direction, Pecos...I'm anxious to hear your thoughts.

Thank You Legacy for doing this for us. Hopefully the law enforcement officials will read this document and at least look into the information they have been given.
 
Legacy, I think the group has kicked over every rock possible on this case and come at things from about every angle possible. Without the arrival of some DNA evidence or some far out forensic technique none of us have even heard of, I am at my wits end how to "solve" this case.

But I keep circling back to a few salient points.

1. Everyone seems to have their "favorite" as the killer. Most likely candidates are one of the Blaires or Nichols. The problem is they are all dead.

2. ECSO and the "long arm of the law" around that time totally proved itself to be a bunch of incompetent, insensitive, half-wits......with few exceptions, like Estrada.

If I had my way, the most likely killers would be rounded up and staked to anthills. But they are already dead.

If I had my way, virtually everyone in Eddy County law enforcement during the early 1960's would be fired, disgraced and run out of the state. But they are either all dead or long since gone from the scene.

The only good news in this case is that MOST of the techniques and procedures for dealing with a major crime have changed. In other words, most of the things that have frustrated this case so terribly have been corrected nationwide...at least in theory. Every city wants a really sharp, high tech police force until they get the bill for what it will cost to produce one. Ultimately most of the police deficiencies can be traced back to city/county budgets that cannot or will not pay for it. This is not a voter friendly project and what politician doesn't think of their own re-elections? So, law enforcement suffers...as do their victims. But still we can rejoice that a LOT of improvement has been made the last 50 years.

So I ask myself, "What good can we realistically do?" The killers are dead. The bungling LEO's are mostly dead. There's really no one to punish or disgrace. There is really nothing we can productively do.

And I'm not telling Sunshine anything she doesn't already know. She figured this out for herself before I ever showed up. I think I have yet to surprise her with anything. To say she has been thorough and persistent would be an understatement.

So where do we go?

My idea is "we go public" in the biggest, loudest, most visible way possible.

Why? What point is this if everyone is dead?

Let's just call it a tribute to Patty and Mattie. I'd like the nation to know their story. We can't convict anyone. We can't punish bungling LEO's. But we can tell the story of a tragedy that has gone on almost 5 decades now. Hopefully the story of Patty and Mattie will show EVERY future survivor of such a crime what they can and can't do...and what they must demand from the LEO community before the loss of their loved one gets swept under the rug by budget starved police departments. I think this whole thing is a shocking story with more twists and turns than a Mexican road race.

Sunshine has written a book about the whole mess and done tons of research. But I know enough about the "literary game" to know that rarely does a first book by an unknown author sell over 10,000 copies. And this is just enough to cover publisher printing costs...which is why publishers aren't just begging everyone who can form a sentence to write a book and send it in. Truth is most new books do NOT sell even half this many copies. We only hear about the rare exceptions.

But I don't see SS's book as worthless or a hopeless cause. Far from it. What she has compiled SHOULD be a author's dream.

Thus my latest goofy idea is that SS begin contacting every TV series, every MAJOR writer of crime stories, etc that we can think of. Suggest to them that they form an alliance (CONTRACT) with her to co-produce and market this story.

I've given this a good bit of thought and can think of a lot of things that deflate my own tires about this idea. But nothing ventured; nothing gained.

And we MIGHT be able to pull this off easier than it sounds.

For example: Just Thinking lives in the same city as a very, very good up-coming new crime writer with about a dozen books to his credit. His name is Jeff Abbott and I've read most of his books already. He's GOOD. Just what if he would grant JT two minutes of his time to plant the idea of just what we are thinking of in his mind. And all the guy has to do is pick up the phone and call Sunshine. Instantly he is connected with the mother lode of research, photos, information AND the person who has lived it! To my way of thinking that is finding a bird nest on the ground for any writer.

Another sharp new writer on the way up like a rocket is C.J. Box in Wyoming. He also has about a dozen books to his credit. Guess what? My brother has a casual acquaintance with Mr. Box.

All we need is two or three minutes of their time. They will be interested or not.

Who else does our little group know? Anyone here know a hot published author? TV producer? Movie script writer?

All we need is to land one of these big fish and suddenly the case has NATIONAL exposure.

I wouldn't suggest such an idea if Sunshine were looking to launch her own writing career or dreaming of "making it big." But neither of those are her motives. This is for Patty and Mattie and I can't think of a better way to tell their story to the nation.

Comments by all MOST welcome. Rip this idea to shreds if you can. If I'm trying to fly a lead balloon here, let's expose it NOW and save everyone any lost energy. If anyone has a better idea or some new angle how to do such a thing....GO FOR IT.

My ideas are not sacred...not even to me.
 
Wow! Great ideas and powerful expression of thoughts, Pecos! I'm all for whatever Sunshine wants to do and whatever means she chooses to accomplish her end - and I can tell you absolutely have her best interests at heart. I am very impressed with your post, Pecos. I found myself getting very excited for Sunshine and the possibilities your outstanding suggestions present. A tribute to Mattie and Patty --- love, love, LOVE it!
 
Well, I wish, Legacy, that I could declare this a done deal but like everything else in the saga of this crime, this will be a steep climb from concept to reality.

First, we need to hear from Sunshine about going down this road. She may have other ideas or want to do something else. And that's fine.

And once we see who's on board with this plan and hear their thoughts and insights, then we will see how best to go forward or if this wasn't as clever as it sounded out of the box. I've already thought of some serious questions about how to do it...not least of which is coming up with a plan to "sell" the project to someone who might really give us a big shove upwards. And hopefully there are other members who know someone besides the couple of examples I've listed.

I think this might end up requiring a "team effort" to make this fly. But we'll talk about that later. For now I'm just hoping to start a flood of ideas, good or bad.
 
I have injured my wrist and hand somehow, and am having trouble typing, but wanted to say I will back any project that Anne wants to pursue.
 
Well, I wish, Legacy, that I could declare this a done deal but like everything else in the saga of this crime, this will be a steep climb from concept to reality.

First, we need to hear from Sunshine about going down this road. She may have other ideas or want to do something else. And that's fine.

And once we see who's on board with this plan and hear their thoughts and insights, then we will see how best to go forward or if this wasn't as clever as it sounded out of the box. I've already thought of some serious questions about how to do it...not least of which is coming up with a plan to "sell" the project to someone who might really give us a big shove upwards. And hopefully there are other members who know someone besides the couple of examples I've listed.

I think this might end up requiring a "team effort" to make this fly. But we'll talk about that later. For now I'm just hoping to start a flood of ideas, good or bad.

I've written this three times...so I hope I get it on here this time!

First let me say...how much I appreciate all the work you people have put on this case. You will never really know how much. You all have helped me understand how things work in the law enforcement world much better. And believe me...it has helped.

Okay. I've been working on my book again. But just to let you know I do have another person helping me with it now. Someone that knows how to write a book....and that means alot to me as well. I'm not an author...and I know that for sure! It takes alot of time and it also takes alot out of me to put the things I want out in this book.
When I first started writing my book...which was about five years ago...I wanted to tell so many things to the people of Carlsband and the Keystone Cops. I wanted the law enforcement agencies to know how it felt to be ignored ...how they made us feel over the years of being ignored. How my mother suffered over this case never being solved. I wanted the people of Carlsbad to know that they had killers living in their hometown...and that they have people still living there that have helped keep these people from being prosecuted. Now I want that...plus I want the people of the world to know how this case has either been ignored or maybe a better word for this mess...Forgotten...one investigator told me it was to old to work on...uneducated law enforcement agencies on how to collect evidence...take care of this evidence...how to keep this evidence safe from being thrown out or stolen....and then I think the agencies need to be taught how to work a crime scene. But I finally come to this ...it wouldn't matter if they were taught how to work a crime scene....Look at how many unsolved murders have happened in the Eddy County area...and they aren't solved yet either. Even with all the DNA evidence they have...they don't do anything about it.
 
Again my third try to get this posted.

I will think over the suggestions and hopefully make some decisions and then share them with you all. Pecos has said it several times...and I know it myself. We have kicked alot around about the case and it's suspects. I still feel like DB did it...but that doesn't mean I'm right. Especially since all of the sleuthers on here have opened other doors that need to be looked into.
I still want your input and suggestions. So please don't stop thinking and posting. I'm sure all of you are tired and want to get this case off the forum...but I want you to know you have opened my eyes to a lot of things I would have never thought of and that is help in my plight for justice.
I hope that Inv. Sillas takes Legacy's documentation and gets back with her. But I have sent him three emails and he hasn't answered any of them yet. Nichols needs to be looked into for many reasons...not just Mattie and Patty's. He might be responsible for other unsolved cases in the area he lived.
I have come to understand what my own father told me several years ago...he said...
"Anne don't get your hopes up about this case being solved...they didn't want to solve it when the girls were killed...why would they want to solve it now?" He was so right. I'm just glad he's not around to see how right he was. I just hate that these people are paid to take care of the people in there area and they really don't care about them.

Thank you for working so hard on this case for Mattie and Patty and of course our families. We really appreciate all that you have done.
Sincerely....Anne Restine Self
 
You are such an inspiration, Anne. You know I'll be one of the first in line for an autographed copy of the book, which no doubt will be a compelling and moving tribute to the memories of Mattie and Patty.
 
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