NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[Nads]

IMO bacause the cause of death could very well be something that will be critical to the Crown's case, as it could tie the alleged murderer to the victim and alleged crime scene in no uncertain terms. For example, if it is a broken neck, it would be clear if there is a lack of haemorrhaging this could mean that the broken neck occurred post death, if there is , it could proven to be that this happened at home and not he effect of a dump of the bridge. If as has been alleged that there are no VISIBLE signs if trauma there are INVISIBLE signs if trauma. For instance, strangulation or obstruction of breathing, or poisoning or injection of certain substances. All these would leave no visible signs and it is probably in the interest of the Crown not to put forward any theories until they have to. This could be at the committal hearing if they have nothing else, or at the trial itself if he does not plead guilty in the interim. Why reveal the trump card (if indeed you have one) until the final slam???

I think the less they reveal that they know or that the forensics are able to reveal, the more chance they have of catching someone in a lie. That is, if anyone would talk!!!!! Or with fake explanations from the defence team at least.

 

[Rational]

Yes there is one. Im looking at it now :what:

Share please?

 

[HeartRuledHead]

I think the less they reveal that they know or that the forensics are able to reveal, the more chance they have of catching someone in a lie. That is, if anyone would talk!!!!! Or with fake explanations from the defence team at least.

I thought it was a defendants right to be aware of all of the evidence and findings before the hearing to prepare his defence? Am I wrong? Maybe..?


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[Makara]

Can anyone share their reasoning as to the suggestion that investigators have not established a likely cause of death in this case? If that has been reported in the press, has any support for that suggestion been put forward by reporters? It seems highly unlikely to me that there is not sufficient evidence to determine the likely cause of death.

Hawkins, my reasoning is that investigators have in fact established a cause of death, irrespective of what is reported in MSM. IMO Allison's cause of death does not have to be disclosed at a bail hearing. Am I correct in my reasoning? I would also be very interested to know what the cause of death is on Allison's death certificate. GBC would know what it says, but that cause of death can be amended at any time. IMO.

 

[CaseClosed]

:fence:

Medical evidence is only part of the mix when determining cause of death for the purpose of coronial inquests and criminal proceedings. Other forensic and circumstantial evidence can be very compelling to the point of virtual certainty. Harold Holt's body was never found, but he drowned nevertheless. A clear and evidence based cause of death will be asserted in this case.

Hmm ... I understand your comment, however, to refer to the same example you have put forward, Harold Holt's death was declared an accidental drowning, but some people still believe he was murdered. Without a witness and the body, I guess we can never be certain of what really happy. I am a firm believer that the body tells a story, and yes, in some cases the body cannot clearly tell the whole story and other evidence will complete the picture. In some murder cases the conclusion has also been that the cause of death cannot be determined. IMO.

 

[Greg]

Greg can you provide something for that (link) I cannot remember anywhere being quoted as saying they knew COD. Happy to be wrong!

I was always surprised that the body was released so soon and yet publicly no COD stated or reported.

http://www.news.com.au/national/all...ret-until-arrest/story-e6frfkvr-1226381604075

I may have embellished a little but I think it's still in the spirit of what I said...cheers .....I'm not feeling the best tonight something's going around and I'm in bed with the iPad...

My kingdom for a mouse....

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I thought it was a defendants right to be aware of all of the evidence and findings before the hearing to prepare his defence? Am I wrong? Maybe..?


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Yes before a trial, but not before the bail hearing as far as I am aware. (which is what many are talking about)

 

[Lurker on Websleuths]

HeartRuledHead, has TM been able to return to her usual activities or is she still in hiding ? Is she able to work ? Is she living in fear of her life ?

 

[Greg]

Ut was too quick for me lol

 

[Rational]

Can anyone share their reasoning as to the suggestion that investigators have not established a likely cause of death in this case? If that has been reported in the press, has any support for that suggestion been put forward by reporters? It seems highly unlikely to me that there is not sufficient evidence to determine the likely cause of death.

And I really hope that the finally determined COD is anything but drowning as I think that would be too much for the girls and family to comprehend. I have not really wanted to go there but in the absence of an obvious COD I suppose it has to be considered, particularly if it turns out that the blood in the car was from Allison when she was still breathing, not yet deceased.

 

[summer_breeze]

Last time we ask: avoid the seemingly personalized spats.

Use the "Ignore" feature if you must!

Everyone's opinion is welcome and appreciated at WebSleuths. It is all in how you relate your opinion that becomes nettlesome. And not everyone will agree with you or what you think, so be prepared for (allowed) feedback. ...Again, both sides are most welcome.

And sometimes we need to step away for a few moments, to ensure we have not taken other's words too personally when this was not the intent.

Think before you hit the SUBMIT button.

The off topic posts are a bit out of control. Please stay on track. (Even when the MODS are sleeping....)

 

[Greg]

http://www.news.com.au/national/all...ret-until-arrest/story-e6frfkvr-1226381604075

I may have embellished a little but I think it's still in the spirit of what I said...cheers .....I'm not feeling the best tonight something's going around and I'm in bed with the iPad...

My kingdom for a mouse....

And a body that doesn't ache all over....wheres a nurse when you need one.....

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Hmm ... I understand your comment, however, to refer to the same example you have put forward, Harold Holt's death was declared an accidental drowning, but some people still believe he was murdered. Without a witness, I guess we can never be certain of what really happy. I am a firm believer that the body tells a story, and yes, in some cases the body cannot clearly tell the whole story and other evidence will complete the picture. In some murder cases the conclusion has also been that the cause of death cannot be determined. IMO.

Yes you are right, they did declare it a drowning, given lack of other evidence.. and without actual proof, we don't know for sure.

 

[Lurker on Websleuths]

I noted questions regarding GBC's DNA testing at Indorippilly police station. Is it possible that scratches on chest and torso were discovered when taking a sample of chest hair for comparison? It depends what they're looking for I imagine. Then they wanted the beard hair and to shave that. MOO

They wanted permission to shave a portion of the accused's face so they could examine the scratches underneath the beard. These were explained by his defence to be from shaving but were not consistent with this according to the prosecution.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Ut was too quick for me lol

Sorry! I butted in..

 

[HeartRuledHead]

Yes before a trial, but not before the bail hearing as far as I am aware. (which is what many are talking about)

Thank you for the clarification


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[Nads]

Hawkins, my reasoning is that investigators have in fact established a cause of death, irrespective of what is reported in MSM. IMO Allison's cause of death does not have to be disclosed at a bail hearing. Am I correct in my reasoning? I would also be very interested to know what the cause of death is on Allison's death certificate. GBC would know what it says, but that cause of death can be amended at any time. IMO.

I think this too, but then I think wouldn't the defence team have seen the autopsy report? Or was that only a preliminary one?

 

[HeartRuledHead]

HeartRuledHead, has TM been able to return to her usual activities or is she still in hiding ? Is she able to work ? Is she living in fear of her life ?

I am not aware of TM fearing for her life? Have you heard that? If so, where?


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[CaseClosed]

I'm still intrigued by the apparent inconsistency between the defence's claim that the only sign of injury (and I don't think they used the word "external") was a chipped tooth, on the one hand, and the blood in the back of the car on the other hand.

There just HAS to be something else,which only the QPS and Forensic and Scientific Services (FSS) knows about.

I am not able to use my contacts at FSS either, as they are obviously not able to tell me anything and I wouldn't put any pressure on them to do so. So I can only surmise along with the rest of you.

For the defence to have made that claim about the chipped tooth, they would have to have had access to the autopsy report, or at least part of it. I mean - that is one serious claim to make, given that the defence will be relying on that fact.

Of course, we are looking at two separate things here:

1. any evidence of injury that could be the source of the bleeding

2. the cause of death, which may NOT involve any bleeding externally, eg broken bones, fractured skull, neck, etc. I understand from previous posts that the toxicology report was not helpful, which would pretty much rule out drugs etc.

So - we have the QPS suggesting that the blood was involved, and we have the defence saying it couldn't have been. But that doesn't rule out non-bleeding causes of death.

Further information as it becomes available will be VERY interesting....

:waitasec:

Let's assume she only had a chipped tooth. This could be the result of a punch to the face, which could then have made her lips, tongue, checks bleed (but no fractured bones). Bearing in mind 11 days of decomposition, would any of these injuries be evident in the autopsy? I would assume no. What is your opinion?

 

[Lurker on Websleuths]

I am not aware of TM fearing for her life? Have you heard that? If so, where?


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No I have not heard that she was in fear of her life , I did however read somewhere , now it may have been on one of the earlier threads or The Sunday Mail that she had gone into hiding. I was looking for the facts on that , given that you know her and sometimes so much of what you read in the media is hogwash.