NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#30

[ActusReus]

would legal aid cover the cost of three high profile lawyers? I wonder.

would the fact that legal aid is sought when employing three high profile lawyers be seen as desperation?

would legal aid being sought for three high profile lawyers taint even further the public perception of the BC family? Be seen as sponging off the tax payer?

Legal aid won't cover the cost of even one high level barrister. Each state is a little bit different but usually the legal aid maximum is capped. Barristers and solicitors who take on this work would have a "budgeted" amount of work they would do for legal aid each year. In the same way they take on a certain amount of pro bono work each year.

Surprising as it may seem, many lawyers, and their firms, write off significant sums of money each year for pro bono and legal aid work.

I'm a bit bemused at the "rush" to have GBC as a client. A local lawyer I know has links to a Queensland barristers chamber and commented this morning that the family have been "shopping" and the current legal rep had no idea the other lawyers were being courted. This info is only third hand and almost impossible to verify however I think there was mention in a CM article that Mr Mahoney wasn't aware of Mr Nyst's attempt to visit GBC.

 

[Nads]

Without trying to sound like a total fruitcake, if I were in the Dickies' shoes, I'd be tempted to privately contact a renowned psychic like John Edwards or someone who has a proven track record - just to find out the manner of her passing and perhaps a bit more...

Sorry if this comes across as trite - I would be tempted, that's all...

All I saw was fruitcake. Mmmmmm...

 

[minni]

I think you'll find it's "Mr" Keyboredom as in the past he's spoken of his "missus"....lol

Just out of curiousity...any locals know if the BC's are still flying our Aussie flag??

hahaha Thanks Marlywings...I actually typed in he, then paused, had a feeling it had been discussed before, but couldnt remember the outcome and decided it must have been the leaset likely, so settled on she!! at least Wozzle/Wobble will be happy to keep trusting 'her???' first instincts

sorry Keyboredom

 

[FirstTimer]

would legal aid cover the cost of three high profile lawyers? I wonder.

would the fact that legal aid is sought when employing three high profile lawyers be seen as desperation?

would legal aid being sought for three high profile lawyers taint even further the public perception of the BC family? Be seen as sponging off the tax payer?

It seems like quite a process to apply and be granted legal aid:

http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/publ...actsheets/Documents/FS-means-test-jan2012.pdf

 

[Nads]

Call 000
"Hello Emergency - which service would you like to be connected to?"

Ermmm - actually I'd like to be connected to the Police plus I'd also like to be connected to anyone else there that might be interested in selling their house"

"Hello Police emergency how can we be of assistance?"

"Ermm - my wife isn't at home, I'm not sure where she is. She hasn't made the kids lunches so I'm having to do it. She is supposed to be here - if she doesn't get back soon I will have to also take the kids to school which will make me a little bit late for work"

"When did your wife go missing sir?"

" I am not sure. I went to bed like a good boy at 10pm last night but she stayed up late watching the footy show. I told her I thought she should be in bed because she has a big day today and she would have to make the lunches earlier than normal"

"I am not sure if she went out for a walk this morning or not. She has taken her phone with her but she's not answering me. It's just not fair, I have been left to do all this work and I had to get dressed myself."

"Is there any possible explanation why she might not have returned sir?"

"Mmmmm - not sure I should answer that one. It's a bit difficult you see. Look can you come here as soon as possible. I need to get some insurance forms filled out just in case she doesn't return. Also think I might need to call a lawyer to help me your questions - they are a little bit difficult for me to answer"

Hello, 000 emergency, can I help you?

- Sorry, I can't say anything til I talk to my lawyer.

 

[mouse detective]

Police Arrive

"Mr Baden-Clay?"

"Yes officer, Gerard Baden-Clay. The Baden part comes from my great-grandfather the famous Lord Baden-Powell - he founded the World scouting movement you know!"

"Sir, you reported your wife as missing a little while ago. Has she since returned?"

"No, she's not back yet. I can't believe all the work I have had to do this morning'

"So you said you last saw her at 10pm last night. How were things between you at that time? Had you had any disagreements at all?"

"No, we never argue about anything. I just tell Al how it is and she accepts it. She's great like that. ..... Hey your face looks familiar - don't you own that cute little 2 bed cottage on the corner of Possibility St in Toowong? I love that house. Geez, you've been there a fair while now haven't you? I sold the house 3 doors down from you about 8 months ago - I got the owners a great price for it. There were 3 other agents who tried to get the listing, they were really undervaluing it. The owner was thrilled that he decided to list with us. Have you ever thought of moving? "

"Sir, can we stick to the matter at hand?"

"Not sure what more I can tell you Constable Perkins - sorry I am trying to remember your first name?"

 

[squizzey1]

Police Arrive

"Mr Baden-Clay?"

"Yes officer, Gerard Baden-Clay. The Baden part comes from my great-grandfather the famous Lord Baden-Powell - he founded the World scouting movement you know!"

"Sir, you reported your wife as missing a little while ago. Has she since returned?"

"No, she's not back yet. I can't believe all the work I have had to do this morning'

"So you said you last saw her at 10pm last night. How were things between you at that time? Had you had any disagreements at all?"

"No, we never argue about anything. I just tell Al how it is and she accepts it. She's great like that. ..... Hey your face looks familiar - don't you own that cute little 2 bed cottage on the corner of Possibility St in Toowong? I love that house. Geez, you've been there a fair while now haven't you? I sold the house 3 doors down from you about 8 months ago - I got the owners a great price for it. There were 3 other agents who tried to get the listing, they were really undervaluing it. The owner was thrilled that he decided to list with us. Have you ever thought of moving? "

"Sir, can we stick to the matter at hand?"

"Not sure what more I can tell you Constable Perkins - sorry I am trying to remember your first name?"

well why stop there. more please more

 

[Opinionsgalore]

Call 000
"Hello Emergency - which service would you like to be connected to?"

Ermmm - actually I'd like to be connected to the Police plus I'd also like to be connected to anyone else there that might be interested in selling their house"

"Hello Police emergency how can we be of assistance?"

"Ermm - my wife isn't at home, I'm not sure where she is. She hasn't made the kids lunches so I'm having to do it. She is supposed to be here - if she doesn't get back soon I will have to also take the kids to school which will make me a little bit late for work"

"When did your wife go missing sir?"

" I am not sure. I went to bed like a good boy at 10pm last night but she stayed up late watching the footy show. I told her I thought she should be in bed because she has a big day today and she would have to make the lunches earlier than normal"

"I am not sure if she went out for a walk this morning or not. She has taken her phone with her but she's not answering me. It's just not fair, I have been left to do all this work and I had to get dressed myself."

"Is there any possible explanation why she might not have returned sir?"

"Mmmmm - not sure I should answer that one. It's a bit difficult you see. Look can you come here as soon as possible. I need to get some insurance forms filled out just in case she doesn't return. Also think I might need to call a lawyer to help me your questions - they are a little bit difficult for me to answer"

Thanks Mouse - nothing like a mid week giggle to keep the smile on my face



This is MOO.

 

[Ms Annie]

Thank you for your question Minnie.

Frankly, I do not know.

I am disturbed that the autopsy found no cause of death, as stated by the defense.

That GBC did not make bail is not surprising, since nobody who is charged with murder ever makes bail (or extremely rarely), so to me that is not indicative of guilt. That the QPS is able to paint a bad picture of somebody is also meaningless to me - they are very good at that and can make anybody look bad if they so want, even you.

The so called blood evidence was only a luminol test. Luminol can react with many things, particularly things found in cars (eg. cleaning fluids). The defense made the point that no injuries were found on the deceased other than a chipped tooth (and who knows when it was chipped?), so to say that her blood was there in the car is far fetched.

As to the finances, I am just adding a little balance to the argument and I truly do not believe the situation was as dire as the QPS make out. I believe that the defense will tear this argument to shreds.

I am not a troll as some here have implied, who themselves are trolling with childish comments that I will choose to just ignore.

I am interested in the supposed evidence, however much of it is highly speculative and again will be torn to shreds in court. I have yet to see something that I would regard as solid.

I think its likely that GBC told a few tales to the QPS, however this also is not unusual and not necessarily indicative of guilt.

Lost more to say and I shall over the next few days

You seem to know a ot about what will be accepted in Court as evidence and what will be "thrown out". IMO

However, all of those of us who are interested in seeing justice done and who have followed this case because of the horror we have felt for the way in which poor Allison was murdered and disposed of, are confideent that Det Ainsworth and his trusty fellow officers will find the truth and will have enough evidence to convict the person they think is the murdere (GBC). You may not remember the case of the little gilr Sian Kingi who was brutally murdered on the Sunshine Coast by two evil evil people. What the police didn't find out wasn't there to know. They find out everything. I am totally confident that they have more evidence against GBC than we can possibly imagine and, if you go back through the posts from Day 1 you will see how many of us have already commented on and reflected on his action and his lack of action when Allison went missing.

Justice will prevail no matter how many celebrity lawyers are dancing around the suspect.

ALL IMO

 

[Thinking]

Difficult to keep up. Personally I think it's good someone like Lightning J presents alternative theories, let's face it GBC defence is gonna need all the ideas they can get (all 3 lawyers and their hangers-on and whoever is going to pay for them).

On one point made, that the roughly $1m accumulated debt wasn't that significant, I would argue it was very significant in this case. My friend runs a successful franchise agency and organised a $100,000 overdraft when he saw the property downturn coming. He was fortunate to never use it as he was a smart operator, changed sales tactics and staff to suit the market, managed costs, consolidated and went on to continue to do very well. My mate is experienced, methodical, genuine (as much as a real estate agent can be!...sorry to agents out there), focused on his family welfare in tough times, patient and selfless. All the things it seems GBC is not.

My friend was exposed to $100k possible debt after running at a profit for years, GBC was exposed to $1m after only managing to sell houses during an uncharacteristic boom in the property market, wasting money on romantic trysts, Lexus vehicle, corporate premises that were away from buyer traffic and incredibly poorly-positioned, and god knows what else... all indications he really didn't have skills at much other than self promotion.

Focused on appearances, I doubt GBC would accept the stigma that comes with company insolvency, in addition to having some of Bwana's cash exposed ( "I'm just a little bit broke").

The first person who told me the local rumours (97.5% of which have been true, despite seeming outlandish at the time) said the century 21 Westside operation was just about to go into Administration around the time Allison disappeared. That may have been one of the triggers to GBCs behaviour since, along with the loss of face since the unsavoury side of his behaviour became known to his family.

I hope for those little girls sake we are seeing a gross injustice, trial by media, and weird out of character inexplicable coincidences, that all happened around the time a stranger visited and created a set of circumstances that leave a loving husband exposed and confused.

My fear is instead we are getting an unwanted insight into a narcissistic cowardly sociopath with a self-centred twisted moral compass, from a screwed up family dynasty with a warped sense of superiority, born from years of up-themselves ignorance fuelled by a patriarch who ignorantly created a brood of screwed up offspring. And in this case the 'screwed up' may have extended to the very worst and most evil of human actions and behaviour.

If the latter is the case, it's pretty close to one of Chris Nyst's recent high profile cases defending the Lacey offspring. It looks like justice prevailed there, as it most likely did for Max Sica based on circumstantial evidence and a weaker case than this one. It seems likely the right result will be achieved... Fingers crossed.

All above IMO based on comments by locals and observation of info reported in MSM.

Well said kb.

Kb, was it you who heard the local rumour that two 4wds were seen parked at the Anstead shops?

I know the media reported a witness sighting of the two vehicles near kholo crossing, but I was sure there was another (perhaps rumoured) sighting as well? Just wondering again about the vehicles and whether the police place credibility on the sightings....

 

[BJsleuth]

Ok, here's some food for thought questions

1. If Allison had gone out with the intention of taking her own life would she have bothered to get into her walking gear and would she have taken a water bottle?

2. If Allison was attacked whilst on her walk, then wouldn't she have dropped the water bottle where and when the attack happened and probably not under the bridge where she was found? Maybe she did walk to the bridge and was attacked there but that doesn't seem probable. If she was randomly attacked, would an attacker stick around to pick up the water bottle and anything else she dropped, or alternatively, go back for it and then throw it in the creek?

 

[possumheart]

just some info:

The highest TE score you could get was 990. 900 was not low, today it would be equvalent of maybe an OP of 4 (i am estimating here). i was actually surprised that he would have got such a high TE score, but he went to a g rammar school, and back then theschool average did help ones individual TE score. in saying that, a TE score is not indicative of ones intelligence. it is indicative of how much work you may have done. you will notice that physiotherapy may need an OP of 1 that only shows how popular the course it,not how intelligent you have to be to study it.
so it is possible to have become a CPA.......

Insider heresay (which I hate to say) ... At that time Toowoomba Grammar used to get the lower achievers to stay home on the ASAT test day to artificially inflate the school's average score. Was common knowledge.

 

[BJsleuth]

Cause of death undetermined is good for Gerard's court case but not so good for the insurance claim.

 

[JK673]

Yeah, I wasn't following uni entries in G's years, more early 80's. My OH was an engineer and around his uni entry time he knew some under 900 TE who started engineering at UQ or QIT (as it wasn't a popular course at the time). All of those who were under 900 dropped out or failled anyway!

The original reason I posted was to refute claims that someone with a TE score wasn't very smart. And that a ?commerce degree would need a higher TE score than 900. I think it all depends on the popularity of the course and where it was (DDIAE wouldn't have had high entry scores imo as it was a TAFE then). Also, as someone else mentioned, he may not have studied much to achieve the score he did get.

It's not that I got 900 and I'm touchy about it, lol, like you may think.

Sorry my facts were arse-up for the year GBC would have got into Tertiary education. Mia culpa.

there are also TE 990s who dropped out of medicine because they could not handle it as well, a TE score or OP score is not the sole measure of intelligence. in fact it is just a measure of how much you can remember from yr 10, and how hard you worked in yr 12.

sorry for being off topic, but being my professional field i do feel i have to correct some unintentional furfies.

 

[squizzey1]

Cause of death undetermined is good for Gerard's court case but not so good for the insurance claim.

has it actually been said by QPS that COD is undetermined???? i dont remember that. i thought they just havent released COD may be wrong

 

[JK673]

Police Arrive

"Mr Baden-Clay?"

"Yes officer, Gerard Baden-Clay. The Baden part comes from my great-grandfather the famous Lord Baden-Powell - he founded the World scouting movement you know!"

"Sir, you reported your wife as missing a little while ago. Has she since returned?"

"No, she's not back yet. I can't believe all the work I have had to do this morning'

"So you said you last saw her at 10pm last night. How were things between you at that time? Had you had any disagreements at all?"

"No, we never argue about anything. I just tell Al how it is and she accepts it. She's great like that. ..... Hey your face looks familiar - don't you own that cute little 2 bed cottage on the corner of Possibility St in Toowong? I love that house. Geez, you've been there a fair while now haven't you? I sold the house 3 doors down from you about 8 months ago - I got the owners a great price for it. There were 3 other agents who tried to get the listing, they were really undervaluing it. The owner was thrilled that he decided to list with us. Have you ever thought of moving? "

"Sir, can we stick to the matter at hand?"

"Not sure what more I can tell you Constable Perkins - sorry I am trying to remember your first name?"

oh no, constable perkins is going to be in trouble for revealing that transcript :floorlaugh:

 

[possumheart]

Yeah, I wasn't following uni entries in G's years, more early 80's. My OH was an engineer and around his uni entry time he knew some under 900 TE who started engineering at UQ or QIT (as it wasn't a popular course at the time). All of those who were under 900 dropped out or failled anyway!

The original reason I posted was to refute claims that someone with a TE score wasn't very smart. And that a ?commerce degree would need a higher TE score than 900. I think it all depends on the popularity of the course and where it was (DDIAE wouldn't have had high entry scores imo as it was a TAFE then). Also, as someone else mentioned, he may not have studied much to achieve the score he did get.

It's not that I got 900 and I'm touchy about it, lol, like you may think.

Sorry my facts were arse-up for the year GBC would have got into Tertiary education. Mia culpa.

Nads, it wasn't a TAFE then, it was a College of Advanced Education. Big difference in actuality. It got rolled into the University system not long after.

Don't know how relevant it really is ... but just clarifying.

 

[Carolyninoz]

Ok, here's some food for thought questions

1. If Allison had gone out with the intention of taking her own life would she have bothered to get into her walking gear and would she have taken a water bottle?

2. If Allison was attacked whilst on her walk, then wouldn't she have dropped the water bottle where and when the attack happened and probably not under the bridge where she was found? Maybe she did walk to the bridge and was attacked there but that doesn't seem probable. If she was randomly attacked, would an attacker stick around to pick up the water bottle and anything else she dropped, or alternatively, go back for it and then throw it in the creek?

I am thinking that in either 1 or 2 there would be some form of external injury. For instance if Allison jumped from the bridge (which I totally don't believe) then it would be obvious by bruising, broken bones etc. If she was attacked I believe there would be some obvious injuries also. I still have my own opinion that she was smothered and then dumped but probably by being carried to the creek. I don't think she was thrown over the bridge. I also am convinced that it was only family involved. Very sad and frustrating but I am sure the Queensland Police know a lot more than has been released.

 

[BJsleuth]

has it actually been said by QPS that COD is undetermined???? i dont remember that. i thought they just havent released COD may be wrong

QPS didn't say that, but the defence did!

 

[Woof]

Insider heresay (which I hate to say) ... At that time Toowoomba Grammar used to get the lower achievers to stay home on the ASAT test day to artificially inflate the school's average score. Was common knowledge.

Quite a few of them did. School I went to did it as well. Same as now they use the NAPLAN to try to bolster their image. 'See? Look how high our NAPLAN scores are. We are a great school. Send your kids here!' makes me sick.

Reminds me of the BC family. 'We are related to the famous Baden-Powell who invented the Scout movement! List your house with us!' again, making me sick.