NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#30

[bellgirl]

My daughter was born in Sydney so she is going for the Blues .... but I don't really like footy, so I don't care who wins tonight.

CC, my husband is from Grafton, NSW and me from Brissie, QLD. It's always very tense in our household on these nights. He had to get his own dinner tonight!

OK - sorry everyone, no more 'off the topic' ......... until the final score that is!

 

[Mani]

Under normal circumstances, I agree that it seems the bridge doesn't get much attention from passing traffic, particularly underneath it. However, whoever took Allison's life would have known the area would have been scoured until her body was found. Thorough searches via waterways and the land. 14km is really not that far to travel, IMO.

Strangeworld, when you drive from Brookfield to the bridge it does seem like a long way to drive to dispose of a body. IMO

 

[marlywings]

Can I just say I don't really like spritzers what about those Broncos

Just re Dr Watson's post, suggesting Allison's body was washed to he place she was discovered ... Completely agree ... I think I mentioned in an older thread, very early in the piece police interviewing someone at length said they suspected 2 people involved, and that Allison's body was dumped near the scout grounds, extensive searches were done of that area and not reported on in any detail. I know lots of people are claiming the way her body was position shows she may have been thrown etc., but I think there will be more to come re.the place she was disposed of, the effect of flood water, and how they came to the conclusion more than one person was involved.

To my knowledge this was well before any reports of 2 vehicles, although that information could have already been given to police... However the conversation/interview i'm referring to happened within a day of Allison being found, and I assume the reports of cars came after the Kholo Bridge location was publicised.

IMO etc ...

Yes I remember your post from way back in which you described the way the water swirls around the pylons when the creek is in flood.

Another local described the creeks as raging torrents through that area.

It was reported police were searching up around the scout camp so they must have had some reasoning for doing that.

 

[DrWatson]

Under normal circumstances, I agree that it seems the bridge doesn't get much attention from passing traffic, particularly underneath it. However, whoever took Allison's life would have known the area would have been scoured until her body was found. Thorough searches via waterways and the land. 14km is really not that far to travel, IMO.

Normally, I'd agree that 14Km isn't THAT far. But if you're not familiar with the area, you may not appreciate just how far away the two places really are.

To get from one to the other. And the way the search was being conducted, it really didn't extend more than about 2Km out from the BC house, using grid-pattern searches, ATV and horseback, and helicopters. Day after day. It never stopped. It only stopped once the body was found. And that was WAY outside the search area.

I just find it a bit odd that the mysterious kayaker (about whom we've heard nothing since) decided to poke up into the creek, and found the body. Maybe he (or she) glimpsed the body from the mouth of the creek, which is only a few metres away? But the position of the body wouldn't be all that obvious from the river. As I've said before - I know that area very well.

I guess the autopsy findings would show if she had been immersed post-mortem or not. And that would help to determine if she was placed high and dry where that body looks to be, or if she was washed down the creek by the flooding.

Driving to the scout camp with a body in the back would be understandable, if one imagines a sense of panic - it would be an area he knows, he would know there is dense bush, and it could feasibly be somewhere that immediately springs to mind. But under the bridge? I can't see it - but I may be wrong. If it were me, I'd have taken her to one of the dozens of local dams, or down by the creek that flows through Brookfield (there are a couple actually) or even up to the Gold Creek Reservoir Reserve.

 

[Mani]

Hi Jools
I don't think Possum's reply was intended that way. She just happens to be one of the people on this forum that remembers where we are at with all the rumors that have been worked through. I think she was trying to be helpful. I think you should continue to comment but just be ready for some who have really good memories to tell you what happened to each and every rumour.(not me-I have a memory like a sieve and that's why I'm thankful that someone else is keeping track of everything)

Jools, Hi - Timmy is correct. Possumheart is one of the members here whose memory is quite amazing for what has been said.

If you are a newbie here, don't forget that members have been discussing points from every which way/angle and so they remember most often the discussion but maybe not who said it.

:welcome2:

 

[CouchCop]

I apologise for posting information last night about TE scores and not getting my facts all straight (TE scores did indeed stop at 990, not the 995 I said). I do agree that some institutions lower their entry requirements for certain courses. I also know that a mid-low TE (or OP) score is not absolutely indicative of how a person will ultimately succeed in education or chosen vocation. I certainly did not intend to offend any posters here and apologise to anyone who may have taken offence.

The point I was more concerned about getting across was the way LJack trivialised, and to some extent, disputed the level of debt that has been reported and that this debt would be considered "DIRE". I think he was incredibly naive in the way he presented his arguments.

I did read in a later post the question of whether SGC (Superannuation Guarantee) was all up to date with the Century 21 office. I know that there are heavy penalities for failure to make timely contributions, so perhaps we will see the figures presented by the prosecution start to escalate.

 

[Mani]

Normally, I'd agree that 14Km isn't THAT far. But if you're not familiar with the area, you may not appreciate just how far away the two places really are.

To get from one to the other. And the way the search was being conducted, it really didn't extend more than about 2Km out from the BC house, using grid-pattern searches, ATV and horseback, and helicopters. Day after day. It never stopped. It only stopped once the body was found. And that was WAY outside the search area.

I just find it a bit odd that the mysterious kayaker (about whom we've heard nothing since) decided to poke up into the creek, and found the body. Maybe he (or she) glimpsed the body from the mouth of the creek, which is only a few metres away? But the position of the body wouldn't be all that obvious from the river. As I've said before - I know that area very well.

I guess the autopsy findings would show if she had been immersed post-mortem or not. And that would help to determine if she was placed high and dry where that body looks to be, or if she was washed down the creek by the flooding.

Driving to the scout camp with a body in the back would be understandable, if one imagines a sense of panic - it would be an area he knows, he would know there is dense bush, and it could feasibly be somewhere that immediately springs to mind. But under the bridge? I can't see it - but I may be wrong. If it were me, I'd have taken her to one of the dozens of local dams, or down by the creek that flows through Brookfield (there are a couple actually) or even up to the Gold Creek Reservoir Reserve.

It's not as though we hadn't had rains and flooding during the early part of the year but maybe when someone is in a flat panic, it wouldn't occur to them that a body could move via floodwater.

What would have been worse is if the body made it into the Brisbane River. It would have made it harder for QPS to decide where the body was originally placed, surely. IMO

 

[bellgirl]

Could GBC have taken Allison's body out to Kholo Creek to allow for more time in being discovered and ultimately, in decomposition? If he left her in the Brookfield area her body would have been found much earlier, and maybe more evidence to point at him. Maybe he took her out to Kholo, in the hope that she would be eventually found (for insurance purposes) but also to allow more time for evidence to be washed away - so to speak.

 

[CouchCop]

From the BOM site, the rainfall for April 2012 (taking data from the Archerfield area, but not sure which is the most appropriate for Anstead) shows a total rainfall recorded for the month was 101 mm. Of that 28 mm on 28/4/2012 (Sat) and 54 mm (Sun). Over two days a total of 82 mm. Body found the following day.

 

[Mani]

Hello Websleuthers,
Just drove past the house and there is a large caravan attached to a burgundy 4x4 parked outside the gate, and a light-coloured saloon car reversed up outside the front entrance to the house. Saw no people though.
A local I know said that early on the morning that ABC was reported missing the silver Holden was seen parked at the showground, and not outside the house. Haven't heard this mentioned by anyone else. Don't know what the significance may be.

Jools it was mentioned very early on by a local. I can remember that one. I have just done a search and Thinking mentioned the car at the showgrounds on May 1st, around post #600 I think.

 

[DunnoZo]

I still think it was pure fluke that the kayaker found her (unless it was a tip-off job). Maybe the police have that information? What made the kayaker poke up into Kholo Creek while paddling the Brisbane River?

Just a thought....[/QUOTE]

Thanks for all of your input Dr. W. At some point in time, there was a thread that covered the poor canoeist, and why he would have been there. Besides discovering it was close to a "geocache" location, ( which is like a treasure hunt) at the site, my own conclusion drawn from what was discussed was that the canoeist was there randomly. QPS may know more, and a link whiz like Marly could probably direct you.

While I'm here, and not related to the above, I think what happens on this forum quite understandably, is that new people arrive with thoughts, and to many of us, they are topics which at some point have been picked and rehashed to the death, allowing us to form opinions on each specific detail of this case. I believe we can be quick to lose our temper when a "newbie" comes and starts getting repetitive. All that said, there would be a lot to read. Wish there was some way of organising it like in a book! Cheers to all of you who have been here from the beginning, and welcome to all with new ideas, just understand that we've been through a lot together, and we do stick up for each other.

 

[Amee]

Residents of nearby Wirrabara Rd said there was a torrent on Saturday, when one rain gauge recorded more than 100mm, dragging debris downstream to the Brisbane River, near where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found under a bridge yesterday.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/hor...or-killer-begins/story-e6frg12c-1226343238512

 

[Carolyninoz]

.

"What would have been worse is if the body made it into the Brisbane River. It would have made it harder for QPS to decide where the body was originally placed, surely. IMO "


I think if Allison's body (bless her soul) had been washed into the Brisbane river she may have never been found. Would it then have been just a matter of GBC waiting for the time required for a person to be missing to make a claim on Insurance There must surely still be heaps of debris in the river and out to sea from the horrible Brisbane flood.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

I apologise for posting information last night about TE scores and not getting my facts all straight (TE scores did indeed stop at 990, not the 995 I said). I do agree that some institutions lower their entry requirements for certain courses. I also know that a mid-low TE (or OP) score is not absolutely indicative of how a person will ultimately succeed in education or chosen vocation. I certainly did not intend to offend any posters here and apologise to anyone who may have taken offence.

The point I was more concerned about getting across was the way LJack trivialised, and to some extent, disputed the level of debt that has been reported and that this debt would be considered "DIRE". I think he was incredibly naive in the way he presented his arguments.

I did read in a later post the question of whether SGC (Superannuation Guarantee) was all up to date with the Century 21 office. I know that there are heavy penalities for failure to make timely contributions, so perhaps we will see the figures presented by the prosecution start to escalate.

Our local fish and chip shop had failed to pay their SGC and were closed immediately & for some time. They have since reopened - thank goodness!! They do really good fish and chips!!

 

[mouse detective]

Hello Websleuthers,
Just drove past the house and there is a large caravan attached to a burgundy 4x4 parked outside the gate, and a light-coloured saloon car reversed up outside the front entrance to the house. Saw no people though.
A local I know said that early on the morning that ABC was reported missing the silver Holden was seen parked at the showground, and not outside the house. Haven't heard this mentioned by anyone else. Don't know what the significance may be.

Could this be the Dickies picking up some of Allison's things? - Might they be taking the kids away somewhere for the holidays?

 

[Even]

Police Arrive

"Mr Baden-Clay?"

"Yes officer, Gerard Baden-Clay. The Baden part comes from my great-grandfather the famous Lord Baden-Powell - he founded the World scouting movement you know!"

"Sir, you reported your wife as missing a little while ago. Has she since returned?"

"No, she's not back yet. I can't believe all the work I have had to do this morning'

"So you said you last saw her at 10pm last night. How were things between you at that time? Had you had any disagreements at all?"

"No, we never argue about anything. I just tell Al how it is and she accepts it. She's great like that. ..... Hey your face looks familiar - don't you own that cute little 2 bed cottage on the corner of Possibility St in Toowong? I love that house. Geez, you've been there a fair while now haven't you? I sold the house 3 doors down from you about 8 months ago - I got the owners a great price for it. There were 3 other agents who tried to get the listing, they were really undervaluing it. The owner was thrilled that he decided to list with us. Have you ever thought of moving? "

"Sir, can we stick to the matter at hand?"

"Not sure what more I can tell you Constable Perkins - sorry I am trying to remember your first name?"

I know this is not the point you are making but I thought I'd make a quick illustration of how police can formulate their questions:

So for instance rather than asking:
"How were things between you at that time? Had you had any disagreements at all?"

They might ask something along the lines of:

P - Police; A - Accused

P: Do you ever argue with your wife ?
A: Yes on occasions.
P: So all was not happy in your household then ?
A: Well I'd say it was happy.
P: So a happy household to you is one where you argue, that's very unsettling to hear ?
A: Well no that is not what I meant.
P: So do you enjoy arguing with your wife ?
A: No
P: If you don't enjoy arguing then it can hardly be said that you are happy and therefore you dont have a happy household.
A: Well I guess if you put it like then no, the household isn't happy.
P: Does it make you feel powerful when you argue ?
A: No
P: So arguing must make you feel powerless if it doesn't make you feel powerful ?
A: Well No. I dont know. Where is this going ? I'm getting confused.
P: Psychologists tell us that feeling powerless leads to confusion and immense frustrations which can build up inside. How long have you been confused and frustrated with your wife ?
A: I'm not confused with my wife, I'm confused with your questions ? I'm finding the way you are asking the questions annoying.
P: You seem to have a very low threshold for anger, do you often loose your temper due to frustrations ?
A: No, I didn't say I get angry I said I was getting annoyed.
P: To me you appear angry now yet you dont seem to recognise that you are angry. Isnt it the case that if you cant recognise when you are angry you are unable to control when you are angry.
etc. etc.
A:hmmmmm.
P: How long have you had these anger management issues ?

 

[marlywings]

Could GBC have taken Allison's body out to Kholo Creek to allow for more time in being discovered and ultimately, in decomposition? If he left her in the Brookfield area her body would have been found much earlier, and maybe more evidence to point at him. Maybe he took her out to Kholo, in the hope that she would be eventually found (for insurance purposes) but also to allow more time for evidence to be washed away - so to speak.

I said similar in my post on previous page...

I think he did want her to be found, for insurance, but far enough away so that she wouldn't be found too soon so forensics wouldn't have much to go on??

 

[Mani]

Ladies and Gentlemen... Keyboredom........ telling it as she see's it!! :takeabow:

Minni - Keyboredom is a female? :blushing:

 

[alicat]

I think I was one of them. Was told by a local their friend saw a white 4wd and a small blue car parked up very close behind it (so close they thought they'd collided so slowed down to look). It was a very brief second hand mention, and the cars were in a different order to that reported later, and no mention the blue car was a 4wd. It was mentioned to me a while before the reports came out in the paper so presumably it's reliable in some way. The person definitely reported it to police anyway.

Sorry, just realised someone already found one of the previous posts (thanks ) ... I think I also posted a few threads before that but didn't mention the colour of the second(blue) car in case it was inaccurate and incorrectly implicated someone. I mentioned blue once MSM did considering it seemed well known by then

Just curious, what time were they seen? Was it early in the morning?

 

[marlywings]

Just curious, what time were they seen? Was it early in the morning?

Keyboredom's post from back in thread #8

#890 05-16-2012, 07:26 AM
Keyboredom
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 318

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox11
Do you know what time they saw the cars?

I think they said 'late at night' so I had assumed before Fri early a.m, but wasn't specifically told sorry

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7921592"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #8 - Page 36 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]