No Honor Among Thieves

[DeeDee249]

Dead bodies don't bleed, so postmortem "rape" with the paintbrush wouldn't cause bleeding over her pubic area and thighs in sufficient quantities to necessitate wiping down.

As far as the parents have the emotional "strength" to stage this crime- well, JR did say something ominous, IMO. He slipped and said "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning". While many people pay no mind to this comment, brushing it off as a mere slip of the tongue, I think he may be telling the truth. When JB died, there may very well have been some phone calls made to various friends and friend/lawyers. (Bynum?- phone records, anyone?) To those who feel no parent could stage the body of their little girl the way JB was staged- I say you may be more right than you know. Maybe they didn't. But someone else may have done it for them.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I love it!

Moreover, it illustrates one of my other points: if both personalities were at work, they'd likely be of different minds about how to proceed.

It's my opinion that both personalities are involved in the staging/cover-up. JR for the physical staging and PR for the rn. John probably came up with the idea of a rn, but it's Patsy (for me) all the way in the wording. Somehow I don't think John actually read the note before the next morning when it was too late to change it. I believe he would have written a much shorter and "to the point" note. I also believe he would have asked for a lot more money. I know lots of folk think the amount of money means the "intruder" knew how much John's bonus was, but I'm just not buying it. If they knew that much about the Ramseys, they would have known that JR was worth millions. So if it really was a kidnapping/ransom scheme, $118,000.00 is a pitiful amount to ask for. Patsy thought she was being so clever with the rn when in actuality she was pointing the finger straight at herself. Then again, maybe John would not have changed that note. She may have inadvertantly played right into his Plan B!

 

[joeskidbeck]

Dead bodies don't bleed, so postmortem "rape" with the paintbrush wouldn't cause bleeding over her pubic area and thighs in sufficient quantities to necessitate wiping down.

As far as the parents have the emotional "strength" to stage this crime- well, JR did say something ominous, IMO. He slipped and said "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning". While many people pay no mind to this comment, brushing it off as a mere slip of the tongue, I think he may be telling the truth. When JB died, there may very well have been some phone calls made to various friends and friend/lawyers. (Bynum?- phone records, anyone?) To those who feel no parent could stage the body of their little girl the way JB was staged- I say you may be more right than you know. Maybe they didn't. But someone else may have done it for them.

You may be right on this, DeeDee. Think of this for a moment. If Burke had a friend over that night and they decided to have a little "fun" with JonBenet, could this be what triggered Patsy's meltdown? I just can't think they called anyone in to help unless that person/persons also had a reason for wanting her death to be covered up. As in "hey, your son is just as involved in this as ours, so you better get over here and help us figure out what to do!" Since the first time I heard John say "lots of people around at three a.m." I have believed it to be the truth.

 

[DeeDee249]

You may be right on this, DeeDee. Think of this for a moment. If Burke had a friend over that night and they decided to have a little "fun" with JonBenet, could this be what triggered Patsy's meltdown? I just can't think they called anyone in to help unless that person/persons also had a reason for wanting her death to be covered up. As in "hey, your son is just as involved in this as ours, so you better get over here and help us figure out what to do!" Since the first time I heard John say "lots of people around at three a.m." I have believed it to be the truth.

Interesting point, and one that has been mentioned by some people going back a while. The R's good friends the Ss (with whom the Rs stayed for a while), had a son that BR played with frequently. The Ss, particularly MRS S, were rabid defenders of the Rs, even going so far as to impersonate a police officer in e-mails (and why she was never prosecuted for that is something I'd like to see out in the open).
Some have speculated that BR may have asked to bring his friend DS along on the trip to Charlevoix, and that this boy may have been at the Rs house that night, sleeping over in order to be ready for the very early flight.
It is also very strange that these good friends, the Ss, were NOT among the group called to the R home after the RN was found. Could the reason be that they WERE called- in the middle of the night- to get their son- and had already left by the time the 911 call was made?

 

[MurriFlower]

Dead bodies don't bleed, so postmortem "rape" with the paintbrush wouldn't cause bleeding over her pubic area and thighs in sufficient quantities to necessitate wiping down.

As far as the parents have the emotional "strength" to stage this crime- well, JR did say something ominous, IMO. He slipped and said "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning". While many people pay no mind to this comment, brushing it off as a mere slip of the tongue, I think he may be telling the truth. When JB died, there may very well have been some phone calls made to various friends and friend/lawyers. (Bynum?- phone records, anyone?) To those who feel no parent could stage the body of their little girl the way JB was staged- I say you may be more right than you know. Maybe they didn't. But someone else may have done it for them.

I wonder if you could direct me to where the '3 in the morning' quote came from??

Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
I don't care what he said. Her arms were most certainly NOT tied behind her head or they would have still BEEN behind her head when she was brought up/ and they would have still been tied behind her back when that crime photo was taken of her on the living room rug. And that photo shows her arms in FRONT.
JR can spin that death scene any way her wants, but science doesn't lie. Bodies in rigor mortis remain in rigor mortis until it is broken, either by decomposition or a coroner or undertaker tearing the muscle fibers.
The same goes for the tape on her legs. If there had been, her legs would remain in that position even after the tape was removed, and NO other tape was found except the small piece on her mouth.
How I wish someone had pushed JR further and asked where he put the tape from her legs and why it wasn't there in the crime pics and why her arms "magically" moved into a different position in the few seconds it took to carry her upstairs.

I wonder why there would be instances where you believe what he says, and others where what he says you believe to be a lie?

The tape on her legs is there for all to see. So, have you checked it out yourself?

 

[DeeDee249]

I wonder if you could direct me to where the '3 in the morning' quote came from??



I wonder why there would be instances where you believe what he says, and others where what he says you believe to be a lie?

The tape on her legs is there for all to see. So, have you checked it out yourself?

Please show me the tape on her legs? I have never seen a photo of her legs at all. That would be wonderful if you have found pics that possibly are not available here in the US.

As for the "3 in the morning quote"- someone here must have it saved to post- Anyone?

 

[MurriFlower]

Please show me the tape on her legs? I have never seen a photo of her legs at all. That would be wonderful if you have found pics that possibly are not available here in the US.

As for the "3 in the morning quote"- someone here must have it saved to post- Anyone?

DeeDee:The same goes for the tape on her legs. If there had been, her legs would remain in that position even after the tape was removed, and NO other tape was found except the small piece on her mouth.

MurriFlower:The tape is clearly there in the picture, so is the cord. Don't take my word for it, you can do the same thing yourself with a simple photo editing and enhancing software, you can download a trial version for free (ArcSoft photo studio is the one I use). Simply save the picture http://crimeshots.com/csblanket.jpg and then open it in the photo editing program. Go to enhance. Turn down the brightness and turn up the contrast until it becomes clear, try clicking on the individual colour filters. It's not rocket science.

"JR: She was laying on the blanket, and the blanket was kind of folded around her legs. And her arms were tied behind her head, and there was some pieces of black tape (inaudible) on her legs, and her head was cocked to the side."

 

[DeeDee249]

"JR: She was laying on the blanket, and the blanket was kind of folded around her legs. And her arms were tied behind her head, and there was some pieces of black tape (inaudible) on her legs, and her head was cocked to the side."

So- you do not actually have a photo (nor have you seen a photo) of tape on her legs or her legs taped. All you have is JR saying so. That photo of the blanket in your link is one we have all seen. There are no taped legs in that photo, nor is there tape other than the piece that was on her mouth.

He was lying about the arms, too. And there IS a photo of that.

 

[MurriFlower]

So- you do not actually have a photo (nor have you seen a photo) of tape on her legs or her legs taped. All you have is JR saying so. That photo of the blanket in your link is one we have all seen. There are no taped legs in that photo, nor is there tape other than the piece that was on her mouth.

He was lying about the arms, too. And there IS a photo of that.

:shutup:

 

[joeskidbeck]

Please show me the tape on her legs? I have never seen a photo of her legs at all. That would be wonderful if you have found pics that possibly are not available here in the US.

As for the "3 in the morning quote"- someone here must have it saved to post- Anyone?

The quote was from the Ramsey interview on LKL on 3/27/2000. It is about 1/4 of the way down the page when LK asks JR why he didn't call the police down to the basement when he found JB's body instead of moving her:

http://www.acandyrose.com/transcripts.htm

CNN has taken down the original link to the transcript. Later on, after Patsy died, LW was on LKL to honor Patsy's memory and when they replayed this interview, that part of JR's statement was gone. I've always wondered why.

 

[joeskidbeck]

One more thing, in this interview, JR does not mention any tape on JB's legs. He says he only removed the tape from her mouth and tried to untie the knots. Gave up and ran upstairs screaming while holding her body.

 

[BBB167893]

It's my opinion that both personalities are involved in the staging/cover-up. JR for the physical staging and PR for the rn. John probably came up with the idea of a rn, but it's Patsy (for me) all the way in the wording. Somehow I don't think John actually read the note before the next morning when it was too late to change it. I believe he would have written a much shorter and "to the point" note. I also believe he would have asked for a lot more money. I know lots of folk think the amount of money means the "intruder" knew how much John's bonus was, but I'm just not buying it. If they knew that much about the Ramseys, they would have known that JR was worth millions. So if it really was a kidnapping/ransom scheme, $118,000.00 is a pitiful amount to ask for. Patsy thought she was being so clever with the rn when in actuality she was pointing the finger straight at herself. Then again, maybe John would not have changed that note. She may have inadvertantly played right into his Plan B!

That makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[BBB167893]

As for the "3 in the morning quote"- someone here must have it saved to post- Anyone?

I've got it!

http://quiz.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.

KING: They all had left? The others had left?

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.

KING: It was a blur to you?

P. RAMSEY: Yes, it was just a blur.

 

[DeeDee249]

The quote was from the Ramsey interview on LKL on 3/27/2000. It is about 1/4 of the way down the page when LK asks JR why he didn't call the police down to the basement when he found JB's body instead of moving her:

http://www.acandyrose.com/transcripts.htm

CNN has taken down the original link to the transcript. Later on, after Patsy died, LW was on LKL to honor Patsy's memory and when they replayed this interview, that part of JR's statement was gone. I've always wondered why.

Thanks anyway, but I had SEEN his false statements. What I thought Murriflower meant was that there was a PHOTO of her legs taped, as MF said " the tape on her legs is there for all to see", as if it was a FACT. But there WAS no photo of her legs taped "for all to see". I of course, like many of you, knew there was no crime photo that we had not already seen and so knew it not to be a fact that her legs were taped, but merely JR's claim that they were. But because I think MF is not from the US, I had hoped there were photos published that we had not seen here. There is a photo of JB lying on the living room rug with the coroner's metal ruler over her, and bagged hands, and her arms are most certainly NOT tied behind her head. Nor could JR (or anyone else) have moved them to the front because of rigor mortis. And THAT we do have a photo of, so that IS a fact. Here's the photo again:

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceathouse.jpg

 

[MurriFlower]

I've got it!

http://quiz.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/27/lkl.00.html

J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.

KING: They all had left? The others had left?

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.

KING: It was a blur to you?

P. RAMSEY: Yes, it was just a blur.

" J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.

KING: They all had left? The others had left?

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.

KING: It was a blur to you?

P. RAMSEY: Yes, it was just a blur.

J. RAMSEY: It was a blur. We had victims' advocates there. We had uniformed police, we had detectives. People were in the kitchen making sandwiches. I mean, it was -- there was -- it was chaos.

P. RAMSEY: And people fingerprinting. There was fingerprint dust everywhere.

J. RAMSEY: ... crew was there."

Yep, Linda Arndt, victims advocates, uniformed police, detectives, people making sandwiches, fingerprinting crew. All there at 3.00 in the morning Sure they were. You people amaze me. Could that have been a typo, and perhaps should have been 8.00 in the morning?? Nope, the transcript said 3.00 so we'll believe that but no way would we believe anything else he says. :banghead:

 

[DeeDee249]

" J. RAMSEY: Well, Linda Arndt was the only police person that was there that I recall.

KING: They all had left? The others had left?

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.

KING: It was a blur to you?

P. RAMSEY: Yes, it was just a blur.

J. RAMSEY: It was a blur. We had victims' advocates there. We had uniformed police, we had detectives. People were in the kitchen making sandwiches. I mean, it was -- there was -- it was chaos.

P. RAMSEY: And people fingerprinting. There was fingerprint dust everywhere.

J. RAMSEY: ... crew was there."

Yep, Linda Arndt, victims advocates, uniformed police, detectives, people making sandwiches, fingerprinting crew. All there at 3.00 in the morning Sure they were. You people amaze me. Could that have been a typo, and perhaps should have been 8.00 in the morning?? Nope, the transcript said 3.00 so we'll believe that but no way would we believe anything else he says. :banghead:

None of them were there at 3 in the morning on EITHER day. On the 26th, the first of LE (along with the posse of friends/clergy) arrived shortly after the 911 call at around 6 am. The fingerprint team, FBI, etc. were there during the course of the day, the body was found at 1 in the afternoon. By evening, nearly EVERYONE left the house, including the family. At 8 pm on that day, the coroner arrived and examined her for 10 minutes, after which JB was taken to the morgue and the house was sealed. So no one was there at 3 in the morning that night, either (the 27th).

 

[MurriFlower]

Dead bodies don't bleed, so postmortem "rape" with the paintbrush wouldn't cause bleeding over her pubic area and thighs in sufficient quantities to necessitate wiping down.

As far as the parents have the emotional "strength" to stage this crime- well, JR did say something ominous, IMO. He slipped and said "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning". While many people pay no mind to this comment, brushing it off as a mere slip of the tongue, I think he may be telling the truth. When JB died, there may very well have been some phone calls made to various friends and friend/lawyers. (Bynum?- phone records, anyone?) To those who feel no parent could stage the body of their little girl the way JB was staged- I say you may be more right than you know. Maybe they didn't. But someone else may have done it for them.

DeeDee: None of them were there at 3 in the morning on EITHER day. On the 26th, the first of LE (along with the posse of friends/clergy) arrived shortly after the 911 call at around 6 am. The fingerprint team, FBI, etc. were there during the course of the day, the body was found at 1 in the afternoon. By evening, nearly EVERYONE left the house, including the family. At 8 pm on that day, the coroner arrived and examined her for 10 minutes, after which JB was taken to the morgue and the house was sealed. So no one was there at 3 in the morning that night, either (the 27th).

:crazy:

 

[BBB167893]

You people amaze me.

We do our best, pilgrim.

Nope, the transcript said 3.00 so we'll believe that but no way would we believe anything else he says. :banghead:

Whether or not this particular quote amounts to anything, it helps to remember that eventually everyone slips up, no matter how clever they think they are.

 

[MurriFlower]

We do our best, pilgrim.

Yes, I think this probably is the best RDI can do.

Between not believing anything that contradicts your theory, and conversely taking out of context quotes or typo/transcription errors as correct, you are just proving that you have no credibility at all.

Whether or not this particular quote amounts to anything, it helps to remember that eventually everyone slips up, no matter how clever they think they are

Yes, I can see that is very true. It's been proven time and again on here, but RDI still has the effrontery to maintain they are correct.

 

[BBB167893]

Yes, I think this probably is the best RDI can do.

Between not believing anything that contradicts your theory, and conversely taking out of context quotes or typo/transcription errors as correct, you are just proving that you have no credibility at all.

I'd take offense to that, IF it weren't the apex of throwing stones in a glass house.

Yes, I can see that is very true.

I doubt it.

It's been proven time and again on here,

I'll say.

but RDI still has the effrontery to maintain they are correct.

Excuse me? Forget throwing stones; this is launching them with a catapult.