NORTH KOREA - Otto Warmbier, 22, UV student, released from North Korea, June 2017, Deceased

[MommyStephV]

Someone please correct me if I'm just being completely dense, admittedly I've not followed this story at all until he arrived back in the US, but did the doctors just hold back information when they initially described his condition? From my limited knowledge, this unresponsive wakefulness condition he was in, doesn't necessarily mean he was near death does it? He could have, in theory, lived a full lifetime in this "condition"...correct? I guess what I'm wondering is if there was underlying medical issues going on that weren't disclosed in the initial reports from doctors when he first arrived, perhaps why they released him, they knew he was near death (most likely not a humanitarian gesture on their part, he likely became too much of a problem for them to deal with) or was something done medically to end his life here? I feel horrible saying that as I haven't read or seen anything that leads me to believe his family felt that way, it just seems odd to me that from all accounts I had read, he was breathing on his own, and then 6 days later, he's passed away.

Ugh, I feel horrible even writing that, and truly apologize if I've missed something that indicated he was in a far worse medical condition than I've understood him to be. Regardless, prayers to his family and friends, what an awful situation.


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[Tillicum]

No words :tears:

 

[elfie]

Healing thoughts to his family and loved ones. :hug: Rest in Peace, Otto. :rose:

 

[Tillicum]

“When Otto returned to Cincinnati late on June 13th he was unable to speak, unable to see and unable to react to verbal commands. He looked very uncomfortable - almost anguished. Although we would never hear his voice again, within a day the countenance of his face changed - he was at peace. He was home and we believe he could sense that.”

“We thank everyone around the world who has kept him and our family in their thoughts and prayers. We are at peace and at home too.”

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/0...ad-former-us-prisoner-north-korea-was-22.html

 

[nancydrew71]

When his father contacted Obama to help, his administration said to "keep quiet".

 

[dotr]

http://people.com/human-interest/otto-warmbier-dies-north-korea-imprisonment/

He was charged with “hostile acts against the state” after allegedly attempting to take down a large propaganda sign lauding the regime at his hotel in Pyongyang. Reading from a prepared statement at a press event before his trial, Warmbier told reporters that he should never “have allowed myself to be lured by the United States administration to commit a crime in this country.”
He added: “I wish that the United States administration never manipulate people like myself in the future to commit crimes against foreign countries. I entirely beg you, the people and government of the DPRK, for your forgiveness. Please! I made the worst mistake of my life!”

During his trial in March 2016, he delivered a tearful confession, saying: “The aim of my task was to harm the motivation and work ethic of the Korean people.”

 

[CircuitGuy]

Is anyone else doubting that Otto was the one who took the banner from the wall in the restricted area?

He confessed that a church associated with his university, possibly acting with the CIA, offered to buy him a car for stealing the sign. That doesn't sound remotely true. It does like what a North Korean with only superficial knowledge of the US would think sounds plausible.

 

[CircuitGuy]

I guess what I'm wondering is if there was underlying medical issues going on that weren't disclosed in the initial reports from doctors when he first arrived, perhaps why they released him, they knew he was near death (most likely not a humanitarian gesture on their part, he likely became too much of a problem for them to deal with)

Maybe the North Korean gov't knew he was near death and saw no upside to keeping him in North Korean custody. If they saved him, they wouldn't get credit for it. There would be even more speculation they murdered him if he died. So it was in their interest to release him.

Maybe there was some behind-the-scenes thing going on, where North Korea wanted some concessions like access to computer, military equipment, or humanitarian aid. Maybe they convicted him just to put pressure on the US, and the top US officials maintained don't-negotiate-with-terrorists policy, since that might encourage them to do it again.

It's also possible they buy President Trump's tough-guy persona. To me it seems clownish, but so does North Korean propaganda. Instead of the carnival clown I see, maybe the North Koreans look at Trump and see either a loose cannon or a serious tough guy who is less afraid of war.

I would speculate that he really did steal a sign and they gave him the same insanely brutal treatment they give their own people. In this scenario, I'd think he died from the brutal treatment as many North Koreans do, and they releaed him once we was near death to reduce the international relations fallout. I do not think this, though, because they claim the CIA put college religious group up to the crime. That's absurd. If he said it was a frat prank, it would be plausible. The implausible motive they made him confess to makes me think they framed him to get some concession from the US, and US refused to give in.

 

[Elainera]

Someone please correct me if I'm just being completely dense, admittedly I've not followed this story at all until he arrived back in the US, but did the doctors just hold back information when they initially described his condition? From my limited knowledge, this unresponsive wakefulness condition he was in, doesn't necessarily mean he was near death does it? He could have, in theory, lived a full lifetime in this "condition"...correct? I guess what I'm wondering is if there was underlying medical issues going on that weren't disclosed in the initial reports from doctors when he first arrived, perhaps why they released him, they knew he was near death (most likely not a humanitarian gesture on their part, he likely became too much of a problem for them to deal with) or was something done medically to end his life here? I feel horrible saying that as I haven't read or seen anything that leads me to believe his family felt that way, it just seems odd to me that from all accounts I had read, he was breathing on his own, and then 6 days later, he's passed away.

Ugh, I feel horrible even writing that, and truly apologize if I've missed something that indicated he was in a far worse medical condition than I've understood him to be. Regardless, prayers to his family and friends, what an awful situation.


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I was wondering the same. In one article there was talk of therapy, possible surgery. There seemed to be a sliver of hope still that maybe some day, some functioning would return. Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe his condition was much more severe.

I was shocked and surprised when I heard the news today.

But I'm not surprised by what Tillicum quoted a few posts above, that his face changed from anguished to peaceful within a day back home and surrounded by loving people.

I have heard and read of people holding on to life until a beloved family member was able to come, and then they let go and died. I think this might have been what Otto was doing. He was just holding on until he would sense that he was back home. Maybe he did not want to give the Korean's the satisfaction to see him die. Dying, in my opinion, is something very ... sacred ... I'm not sure if that's the right word ..., it's better to die surrounded by love and respect. I'm glad Otto died at home, and not in NK, that might be the only silver lining in this heart breaking story.

 

[LietKynes]

Disgusting ; those who brutalized and ultimately murdered this young man. My utmost condolences to his loved ones.


Rest gently, Otto !

 

[wendybtn]

Someone please correct me if I'm just being completely dense, admittedly I've not followed this story at all until he arrived back in the US, but did the doctors just hold back information when they initially described his condition? From my limited knowledge, this unresponsive wakefulness condition he was in, doesn't necessarily mean he was near death does it? He could have, in theory, lived a full lifetime in this "condition"...correct? I guess what I'm wondering is if there was underlying medical issues going on that weren't disclosed in the initial reports from doctors when he first arrived, perhaps why they released him, they knew he was near death (most likely not a humanitarian gesture on their part, he likely became too much of a problem for them to deal with) or was something done medically to end his life here? I feel horrible saying that as I haven't read or seen anything that leads me to believe his family felt that way, it just seems odd to me that from all accounts I had read, he was breathing on his own, and then 6 days later, he's passed away.

Ugh, I feel horrible even writing that, and truly apologize if I've missed something that indicated he was in a far worse medical condition than I've understood him to be. Regardless, prayers to his family and friends, what an awful situation.


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His brain was deprived of oxygen at some point for quite some time so there was not much living brain matter left. ' Brain-dead' we normally call it. You can see his feeding tube in some pictures. RIP.

 

[Mercedes]

Someone please correct me if I'm just being completely dense, admittedly I've not followed this story at all until he arrived back in the US, but did the doctors just hold back information when they initially described his condition? From my limited knowledge, this unresponsive wakefulness condition he was in, doesn't necessarily mean he was near death does it? He could have, in theory, lived a full lifetime in this "condition"...correct? I guess what I'm wondering is if there was underlying medical issues going on that weren't disclosed in the initial reports from doctors when he first arrived, perhaps why they released him, they knew he was near death (most likely not a humanitarian gesture on their part, he likely became too much of a problem for them to deal with) or was something done medically to end his life here? I feel horrible saying that as I haven't read or seen anything that leads me to believe his family felt that way, it just seems odd to me that from all accounts I had read, he was breathing on his own, and then 6 days later, he's passed away.

Ugh, I feel horrible even writing that, and truly apologize if I've missed something that indicated he was in a far worse medical condition than I've understood him to be. Regardless, prayers to his family and friends, what an awful situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I read the quote in some article by a physician who said it would take many surgeries to repair Otto's brain damage, I thought well maybe there is some hope here. However, I questioned, in my mind, how that could be possible. I am no physician, but I have never heard of any treatment that could repair the extensive brain injury that Otto has had for quite some time. There are always miracles, I suppose, but I would like to know what that quoted physician had in mind.
I will look for that link.

 

[LadyL]

what they did to him is unforgivable
all over a stupid propaganda banner

~fly high with the angels Otto ~

 

[Dionysia]

The whole poster theft story is a load of crap.

I have no doubt the North Koreans made it up and forced Otto to give a false confession.

They have blood on their hands.


My heart breaks for his parents.

 

[Snick1946]

Could he have been waterboarded?

What they could have hoped to get him to confess to by doing that is questionable. The DPRK is a psychotic cult state, maybe they really thought he was the linchpin in some vast US conspiracy to undermine their national morale by stealing the banner.

 

[dotr]

http://www.businessinsider.com/otto-warmbier-murdered-by-north-korea-john-mccain-statement-2017-6

Sen. John McCain of Arizona delivered a decisive statement after the death of Otto Warmbier, the American student who was imprisoned in North Korea for over a year, and said that the US "cannot and should not tolerate the murder of its citizens by hostile powers." "Let us state the facts plainly: Otto Warmbier, an American citizen, was murdered by the Kim Jong-un regime," read a statement from McCain released Monday. "In the final year of his life, he lived the nightmare in which the North Korean people have been trapped for 70 years: forced labor, mass starvation, systematic cruelty, torture, and murder."

"North Korea is threatening its neighbors, destabilizing the Asia-Pacific region, and rapidly developing the technology to strike the American homeland with nuclear weapons," continued McCain. "Now it has escalated to brutalizing Americans, including three other citizens currently imprisoned in North Korea."

Warmbier, who was detained and eventually convicted for the "hostile" act of stealing a propaganda poster at a hotel in 2016, returned home on June 13 after reportedly being in a coma for a year. During his last days, he was said to have been in a state of "unresponsive wakefulness," and died less than a week later.

 

[jjenny]

When I read the quote in some article by a physician who said it would take many surgeries to repair Otto's brain damage, I thought well maybe there is some hope here. However, I questioned, in my mind, how that could be possible. I am no physician, but I have never heard of any treatment that could repair the extensive brain injury that Otto has had for quite some time. There are always miracles, I suppose, but I would like to know what that quoted physician had in mind.
I will look for that link.

If the brain cells are dead (which is what has been reported-large areas of brain damage) then they will not grow back and it's not possible to repair the damage. There is no surgery that will bring back the brain that has died. Sounds like he still had some function in the brain stem (which is lower brain) but no higher brain function because large areas of brain were dead. There was no hope for recovery as far as I could tell.

 

[dotr]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/otto-warmbier-north-korea-dies-1.4168166
rbbm.

Doctors had described his condition as a state of "unresponsive wakefulness" and said he suffered a "severe neurological injury" of unknown cause.

'He was home'

His father, Fred Warmbier, said last week that he believed Otto had been fighting for months to stay alive to return to his family. Their statement Monday said he had looked uncomfortable and anguished after returning June 13, but his countenance later changed.

"He was peace. He was home, and we believe he could sense that," they said.

Doctors said he had suffered extensive loss of brain tissue and "profound weakness and contraction" of his muscles, arms and legs

 

[gregjrichards]

It is a tragedy that Otto has died I pass my sincere condolences to his family.

 

[Snick1946]

The populace in N Korea is connditioned and trained to hate and loathe America and Americans.

Years ago I had a discussion with a friend who'd served in the Army and had been stationed at the border between North and South Korea. Representatives of the two sides were supposed to confer at intervals on border issues. He said the North Koreans were always seemingly in a state of rage toward their counterparts. So much so, their faces would quiver. He said it was not an act.

These are the people we face in this thing.