NORTH KOREA - Otto Warmbier, 22, UV student, released from North Korea, June 2017, Deceased

[jjenny]

It sounds like he was in similar condition as Terry Schiavo. She also had brain stem function but no higher brain function, with large areas of brain dead. It would be impossible to recover brain function in that case. Current state of medicine isn't able to grow back the dead areas of the brain.

 

[animlzrule]

The Obama administration got 10 Americans back from North Korea. I wonder why they weren't able to secure Otto's release?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/latest-doctors-plan-update-freed-american-student-48053999

One of former President Barack Obama's advisers says the Obama administration had "no higher priority" than securing the release of Americans detained overseas but North Korea's isolation "posed unique challenges."

Ned Price says the Democratic president's administration "worked through every avenue available" to try to secure the release of University of Virginia student Otto Warmbier (WORM'-bir).

Price said Thursday the Obama administration's efforts secured the release of at least 10 other Americans from North Korea. He says efforts to get Warmbier home never ceased. He says the administration is heartened Warmbier has been reunited with his family.

I know they keep these things hush hush, but I wonder what the circumstances were with the other 10?

 

[Spellbound]

What a sad ending .... I am grateful his family got to hold and comfort him these past days. My deepest condolences to them.

 

[MommyStephV]

It sounds like he was in similar condition as Terry Schiavo. She also had brain stem function but no higher brain function, with large areas of brain dead. It would be impossible to recover brain function in that case. Current state of medicine isn't able to grow back the dead areas of the brain.

Terry Schiavo is exactly who I had compared him to in my mind. She appeared, or at least the public had been told, that beyond the feeding tube she was in great health. Had the feeding tube not been removed she likely would have lived a long life. I had thought that was the state Otto was in.


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[K_Z]

It's my opinion that there is a pretty good possibility that the family made some hard decisions, based on his prognosis (which was unspeakably bleak, from every medical indication).

Certainly I have no "proof" of this, but I believe the family decided to "let him go", rather than watch him deteriorate over the next 10-20 years. He has an obvious feeding tube in the pics of him being carried off the medevac plane. He's been back about 6 days. Most people in his condition take roughly 4-10 days to die, if hydration and tube feeds are discontinued. The family does not, IMO, appear to be shocked at his death, and their words are carefully chosen.

I think with such a devastating prognosis, they made the agonizing decision to stop the tube feeds and hydration, and let him go. JMO.

FWIW, I also think he must have had very attentive care in NK to arrive in that condition without bedsores, and a host of other terrible conditions that can occur from being completely dependent and bedridden.

I think they never really "meant" to kill him in NK-- it would have been so very easy to come up with a better "story" than the ridiculous botulism and sleeping pill tale. Whatever happened, I think they realized his potential as a bargaining chip, and used all their resources to keep him alive and reasonably well cared for (custodial care).

The whole matter is really sad. I can't understand why anyone, even a college student who thinks they are immortal, would go to such a troubled place like NK. It's a brutal and oppressive dictatorship that hates anything related to America or Americans. No one should ever think if they go to places like NK that America will rescue them, or that being American gives them any kind of protection. But I can understand that a brash, bold young man would relish the idea of "an adventure" to such a forbidden place that others can't go-- it's the kind of "powerful" opportunity that idealistic young people might embrace, not fully understanding the magnitude of what they're doing-- it's not exactly a peace corps assignment. But I also think what ever happened, the NK regime is responsible for this young man's untimely death.

Just sad all the way around. I"m glad he made it back to the U.S. alive, to be with family. And so they could say their goodbyes.

But I really worry about the other 3 Americans still there. Do we even know if they are alive?

 

[K_Z]

Of course, none of us can know why the previous administration was unable to secure his release.

It's my opinion that NK never intended for him to die. I think whatever happened was an inadvertent outcome. They could have easily made him "disappear", but they did not.

I think that when they finally realized that his neuro condition was permanent and unable to improve, they had to "do" something. For whatever their reasons, they decided to support his physical body, and keep him in reasonably good shape for someone in a vegetative state.

Whether they kept him alive as a show of cruelty, or as a bargaining chip, or out of fear of the international community, or out of some shred of "generousness" (which I sincerely doubt), is for politicians and NK scholars to debate. We know the NK regime DID keep him alive, and reasonably well cared for.And we have no idea "why" they chose to release him at this particular point in time-- maybe even as a distraction, or to propagandize KJU's "benevolent" nature to his own people.

 

[K_Z]

What I really want to understand is, why did the NK's concoct the ridiculous "botulism plus sleeping pill" story? It's preposterous. Any medical professional could have come up with a dozen better "cover stories". This botulism story is so far out there, most med professionals can't conceal their incredulity. Really? That is the BEST cover story they could fabricate??

That story alone is so suspect that I can't begin to wrap my head around it. It's so far out there, they may as well have said little green men from mars landed and zapped his brain. One of my colleagues thinks the story is so preposterous, that they must have "floated" it as a way to demean and mock Americans.

That Otto Warmbier was so tall, handsome, strong, and strapping only adds to the "mockery", IMO. He may have been singled out of the travel group because he was such a handsome, imposing , figure-- perhaps not obsequious enough to the handlers in NK. They may have wanted to "teach him a lesson" about NK hospitality.

 

[DeDee]

Life expectancy, with the best case scenario, is twelve months in unresponsive wakefulness. Otto was not totally asleep since the brain injury as that portion of his brain was not affected by the dead brain cell structure.
He was breathing. Autonomic System.
He was blinking. Autonomic System.
Otto was staring.
Otto's body had digestion. Autonomic System.
Tests were performed to measure the GI and urinary systems. Otto's body was incessantly moving about, flinching, the spasms, rigidity, stiffness, jerking, blinking, and difficult sleeping left his body exhausted. If the NKs were caring for him so closely then they realized the end was near. 12 months is the life expectancy.

The parents certainly could have performed as suggested only they had just seen him for the first time in 17 months. Did they make a life time decision over night? After all their son went through for 17 months, I can not see them making the decision to end his life in such short order, but I could be wrong. I shall not judge either way.

Otto's NK roommate stated that when he saw they were being delayed at the airport when two NK officials tapped Otto on the shoulder to lead him away. His friend said, "I'll never see you again." And he didn't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...to-warmbiers-north-korea-roommate-speaks-out/

 

[neesaki]

What I really want to understand is, why did the NK's concoct the ridiculous "botulism plus sleeping pill" story? It's preposterous. Any medical professional could have come up with a dozen better "cover stories". This botulism story is so far out there, most med professionals can't conceal their incredulity. Really? That is the BEST cover story they could fabricate??

That story alone is so suspect that I can't begin to wrap my head around it. It's so far out there, they may as well have said little green men from mars landed and zapped his brain. One of my colleagues thinks the story is so preposterous, that they must have "floated" it as a way to demean and mock Americans.

That Otto Warmbier was so tall, handsome, strong, and strapping only adds to the "mockery", IMO. He may have been singled out of the travel group because he was such a handsome, imposing , figure-- perhaps not obsequious enough to the handlers in NK. They may have wanted to "teach him a lesson" about NK hospitality.

That's what I thought, the botulism thing was ridiculous. And as far as the rest in bold, my train of thought as well. Horrific, tragic, so sad. :cry:

 

[jjenny]

Unresponsive wakfulness is the new name for PVS (persistent vegetative state). Terry Schiavo stayed for many years in that state. So it's certainly possible to last more than 12 months.
"Unresponsive wakefulness syndrome -- which doctors previously referred to as a persistent vegetative state or a vegetative state -- is best described as a state in which a patient may have certain characteristics of consciousness, such as eye blinking and eye movement, but who has no apparent reaction to the external world or understanding of or engagement with their surroundings."
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/unresponsive-wakefulness/story?id=48072056

 

[jjenny]

Terry Schiavo is exactly who I had compared him to in my mind. She appeared, or at least the public had been told, that beyond the feeding tube she was in great health. Had the feeding tube not been removed she likely would have lived a long life. I had thought that was the state Otto was in.


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They both were in a similar state. Only now doctors called it unresponsive wakefulness instead of PVS.

 

[dotr]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...r/news-story/52d70a45cca1aa0367bfedf63e44ff07

The medical specialists from the University of Cincinnati Medical Center have spoken cautiously, but it seems that Otto – this strapping young man, who played all kinds of sports, and lived a healthy lifestyle, and had a sunny outlook, and who had turned 22 while imprisoned - suffered a heart attack, which led to a loss of oxygen to the brain.

But perhaps it was the other way around.
His devastated father, Fred Warmbier, addressed the media wearing his son’s pale-coloured jacket - the same daggy and now intensely beautiful jacket Otto had been wearing when he was sentenced.
His parents spent several days with Otto, kissing his forehead, stroking his hand.
And then they let him go.

 

[dotr]

Published on Jun 15, 2017

A smiling Otto Warmbier, who was returned to the United States comatose after 17 months of imprisonment in North Korea, throws snowballs with his tour group in the last video taken before his arrest. His brother, Austin Warmbier, posted it with the message: "This is the Otto I know and love."

[video=youtube;NjoaH45nKfc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjoaH45nKfc[/video]

http://wtvr.com/2017/06/19/uva-stud...friend-recall-otto-warmbiers-outgoing-spirit/

Otto Warmbier and longtime girlfriend Alex Vagonis

 

[Jennifer17]

Life expectancy, with the best case scenario, is twelve months in unresponsive wakefulness. Otto was not totally asleep since the brain injury as that portion of his brain was not affected by the dead brain cell structure.
He was breathing. Autonomic System.
He was blinking. Autonomic System.
Otto was staring.
Otto's body had digestion. Autonomic System.
Tests were performed to measure the GI and urinary systems. Otto's body was incessantly moving about, flinching, the spasms, rigidity, stiffness, jerking, blinking, and difficult sleeping left his body exhausted. If the NKs were caring for him so closely then they realized the end was near. 12 months is the life expectancy.

The parents certainly could have performed as suggested only they had just seen him for the first time in 17 months. Did they make a life time decision over night? After all their son went through for 17 months, I can not see them making the decision to end his life in such short order, but I could be wrong. I shall not judge either way.

People can stay alive for years in a vegetative state. I have nursed dozens of them, years ago, although it would not happen today. The families would be asked to make the tough decision with all the facts laid out.

 

[gitana1]

Horrible outcome. They murdered a young man for political reasons. I have nightmares of North Korea. I've been terrified and obsessed with that monstrous nation for years. So sad.

 

[Jennifer17]

Horrible outcome. They murdered a young man for political reasons. I have nightmares of North Korea. I've been terrified and obsessed with that monstrous nation for years. So sad.

But, to be fair, we don't know how he acquired that damage to his brain. Some prisoners died in Gitmo too, while in US custody.

 

[MIKAYOYO]

But, to be fair, we don't know how he acquired that damage to his brain. Some prisoners died in Gitmo too, while in US custody.

Seriously. This kid was murdered. gitmo prisoners were there for crimes they committed. (modsnip)

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[MIKAYOYO]

Seriously. This kid was murdered. gitmo prisoners were there for crimes they committed. (modsnip)

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Apologies Bessie. I tried to edit and couldn't then tried to alert mod but don't see that option from Tapatalk. Sincerely sorry.


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[MIKAYOYO]

But, to be fair, we don't know how he acquired that damage to his brain. Some prisoners died in Gitmo too, while in US custody.

Let me try this again. This kid stole a poster. That was his crime. He's hardly the type that ends up in Gitmo. He was obviously tortured while being held captive and only released when he he was close to death. To compare him to prisoners at gitmo is absolutely disgusting and so far from reality. Moo


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[Meryl12]

Let me try this again. This kid stole a poster. That was his crime. He's hardly the type that ends up in Gitmo. He was obviously tortured while being held captive and only released when he he was close to death. To compare him to prisoners at gitmo is absolutely disgusting and so far from reality. Moo

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I agree with you. Souveniring a poster does not compare with the prisoners at Gitmo.. We cannot even be sure he stole the poster, but assuming he did, the NK have killed him for it. His parents must be living a private hell. Keep away from NK.