NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #10

[CARIIS]

MOO

LE and MB knew what was really going on . I think the 4 that breached the room were in on the operation and HAD to be the four that breached.

It sure seems like there was a heck of a lot of LE not doing much or being told to stand down .

Directed SWAT officers away from a machine gun tooting sniper makes no sense at all

Obviously the entire dept cant be aware of what MB and higher ups in the dept know about what was really going on

They had to IMO have as much craziness as possible until the snipers were gotten to the helicopter and out of the area.

I always found it unique that pretty early on they all started talking about "diversions" in real time . Who would even put that thought out so quick until each scene was actually checked out.

Having "diversions" sure seems like a good part of a training exercise!

From the onset all this they had no idea where the firing was coming from is flat out silly. There are tons of videos from people there who had no trouble at all ascertaining where the shots were coming from .

It was not like it was two shots jeezzzz made no sense from the get go and less so now!

I would think if you were in a drill and all of a sudden all this brakes out it sure would become really confusing in an instant would it not.

Who are the bad guys REALLY ? Think about it for a second all of a sudden real people are getting shot and killed ? That would result in the chaos we saw that night

I have tried and tried to find it again. It is the long version of the cowboy dude. At the end of that clip he goes up to a cop ( who had on those glow in the dark bright yellow vests) THey are used in training exersises. In real life cops are not running around glowing in the dark -- especially during a machine gun volley..

Back on track - the cop is hiding behind what looks like a road barrier. And cowboy dude runs up to him and asks him to help and the cop was like I am not going out there. To me that hit me as it WAS training of some sort that went really whacko suddenly.

I would also think if one is in the mindset of training as opposed to actual it would change perceived need to respond super quickly because training is all about learning.

However, when I saw the video of the charade of the team who ended up breaching (the one with cops urinating and snacking along the way) that sure as heck seemed training gone wrong.

The cop video is nonsense. What body cam is aimed at the instructors mouth ? A body cam that will used in review of the exersise later -- with nice clear audio would be interesting and helpful.

Some of his directions throughout sure seemed more like reminders of key things in training not in real life event. There was a hockeyness to the dialog.

Having to tell a bunch of trained officers to hold here and now go right and where to be in terms of front or back I think that is pretty well thought out in advance and known by the team. They all have assigned positions

This endless stating of what I would think is core SWAT training with that teams that always work together exactly for that reason made no sense.

There was a exercise "pace" to it all. Going through the motions more to play it out thinking noone was really in danger. The amount of urgency , or lack of it, is certainly incongruent with what ended up really going on that night.

The info about the training was out there. I knew about it early on but the thread was getting very heated and very focused on it being a Paddock event as opposed to something much bigger.

I become more convinced that it was a big operation with lots of moving parts that got beyond Lombardo's control and the FBI knew instantly Lombardo had better have a babysitter and got him one instnatly.

All this nonsense that MB is being so secretive is cause of lawsuits that is why they have lawyers and insurance. They also know they can drag out payments for decades .

MB IMO was getting a kickback for allowing arms dealing to go on its hotel . That is real reason why they needed to throw out so much smoke -- muddy everything up. They did not expect the SC to make them release stuff -- so now truths are coming out that can only to one thing

this was not some senior citizen who needed 42 machine guns to kill people

I do believe there were multiple snipers . I believe that black sedan speeding off to the heliport was the snipers being gotten out of the area. The helicopters flight track is totally illegal . That one helicopter is the only one that turned its transponder off and then on.

The speeding sedan time line wise fits with the rushing the sniper team to the heliport and the atc tapes also fit the timeline of the sedan getting to the airport and the helicopter then making a mad dash across the night sky.

something went very wrong that night ........................................................

 

[CARIIS]

POLL

I just learned that guests can vote ! ( I think!)

Las Vegas Shooting Poll- Do you believe the narrative provided at this point in time

 

[CARIIS]

tid bits

if already posted sorry

Stephen Paddock’s hotel records show three women registered in his room

The article has screenshots directly from the release of documents to support the following:

The details of the LVMPD dispatch log on page 26 specifically reveals that dispatch received information from Mandalay Bay regarding guest names, additional parties in the room, along with check-in and departure dates for Paddock and the three women found in his room, all of which completely contradicts information given to the public in early reports from LVMPD and Sheriff Lombardo

All this indicates is that there were three females on the registration. We do not know currently if anyone other than Paddock was in his rooms during his stay, however, this would indicate that other possible suspects were known to the police since October 1.


"Units in control room 32 135. Suspect name of K(P)addock, Stephen. There three females in room."

Investigators reportedly looking into mystery woman seen with Las ...
www.nydailynews.com/.../las-vegas-mass-shooter-mystery-woman-days-attack-article-...
Oct 5, 2017 -

hummm



There were panicked calls made from Sundance Helicopter about possible hostages taken.

One of the recently released witness statements includes a witness who recounts seeing Danley and Paddock at The Noodle Shop the Friday before the shooting.

LVMPD dispatch logs show documentation of ISIS activity on page of Danley's Facebook friend (arms?)

newly released police logs and witness statements are further evidence that there are possibly additional suspects or people of interest who were not mentioned in Lombardo's press conferences, or at any time within the eight months that have passed since the horrific shooting.


Information regarding the Las Vegas shooting that has yet to be process and released includes more than 20,000 hours of video footage, 251,099 images, and thousands of witness accounts and police phone calls.

one thing remains undisputed and continues to present itself to the public. Sheriff Lombardo intentionally misled the public

lies, misinformation, deception, and corruption that has been demonstrated by Sheriff Lombardo, and proven in these newly released documents

LVMPD Press Information Officer, Larry Hadfield told the Baltimore Post-Examiner on Friday that they would not be commenting on any of the records being released.

All this stuff kinda fits for me. I have felt that he was up to no good got nailed and like his father took a plea in exchange had to become a narc

in this instance it IMO is like he was arming enemies of ours got nailed and then had to turn on folks buying machine guns

in this context:

In a handwritten statement, one woman says she sat near Paddock in a diner just a few days before the shooting, while out with her son. She said she heard him and a companion discussing the 25th anniversary of the Ruby Ridge standoff and the Waco siege. (Each of these incidents became touchstones for a rising anti-government militia movement in the 1990s.)

She says she heard him and his companion saying that courtroom flags with golden fringes are not real flags. The belief that gold-fringed flags are those of a foreign jurisdiction, or “admiralty flags”, is characteristic of so-called “sovereign citizens”, who believe, among other things, that the current US government, and its laws, are illegitimate.

Notions

Another man, himself currently in jail, says he met Paddock three weeks before the shooting for an abortive firearms transaction, in the carpark of a Bass Pro Shop. The man was selling schematic diagrams for an auto sear, a device that would convert semi-automatic weapons to full automatic fire. Paddock asked him to make the device for him, and the man refused.

Paddock launched into a rant about “anti-government stuff … Fema camps”

If we plug in accomplices as opposed to registered guests hummm




Stephen Paddock’s hotel records show three women registered in his room

 

[CARIIS]

Ok guys

tried to get this in other post but it timed out sorry for the multiple posts in a row but want to see what you all think of all this :

Hey its video from the body cam I know we are not fond of Zero Hedge but it is just actual video

No broken windows?

Strangely, officers in the video above can be heard contradicting the official narrative,

“We do not have a broken window,” one of the officers named Cory clearly states after making entry into room 32-135.

“Standby, we’ve got curtains open on a window that’s not broken,” another voice can be heard saying in the video as officers frantically pull back the curtains.

“It’s not, it’s not, it’s not [broken] — Corey it’s not,” one officer makes clear.

Scroll down to the the video
"steven paddocks MB hotel room"

it is the one that is 2 23 in duration --

there def is dialog about windows -- what do you guys think they are concluding ? There is a lot of talkover and I cant tell if they ultimately found broken window or not?

They sure are running around the room touching a lot of stuff arent they

what is all that banging sounds like they are lifting up guns and tossing them back down on the floor

so they just blew off a door and there is no smoke in the room??

Do they have smokeless bombs?

At 108 the cop IS at the window (by the big post) where the stills show broken glass and bullets all nicely laid out on top of the glass -- all shiny and stuff.

Do bullets come out of machine guns all polished and pretty?

Things sure start to make a lot more sense once we put more than one human in the room during the shooting huh?

Takes away all the running back and forth in smoke filled rooms

All along if one thinks about the breaks in shooting might have been much more about making sure it does not sound like more than one shooter as opposed to reloading.

He goes other shooter goes he goes -- would give a chance for smoke to get out of that area while the other snipers shoot.

That makes no sense you got 24 machine guns in the room and you need minutes between to reload --from a dude who has cameras set up etc but for some unexplainable reason he does not get more than one machine gun ready to roll.

Mandalay Bay Shooting Body Camera Footage Released: No Broken Windows Reported

This dept sure does not have corruption issues

one of the SWAT officers involved in the breach of Paddock's room was arrested in February on counts of sexually assaulting a child and kidnapping. Bret Thiel

four counts each of sex assault against a child under 14, sex assault against a child under 16, six counts of kidnapping, five counts of lewdness against a child under 14, and two counts of child abuse or neglect.

The only conclusion about above is stuff was known and covered up -- over and over these are not isolated violations -- lots of victims

18 charges and no one in the dept knew anything at all

North Las Vegas and Metro police officers responded about 7:30 p.m. Wednesday to a desert area in the far northwest valley after receiving a call about a man who was possibly suicidal, Metro Lt. David Gordon said.

Metro SWAT was eventually dispatched, Gordon said. (So now we have SWAT in action and I can't find any news video of the scene? That went on for hours?

Thiel has been employed with Metro since August 1998, Metro Officer Aden OcampoGomez said.




Police: Metro officer accused of sex assault against a child

There is a clip of channel 8 coverage of the event here:

morphonios


oh brother what a mess huh?

 

[CoolJ]

Ok guys

tried to get this in other post but it timed out sorry for the multiple posts in a row but want to see what you all think of all this :

Hey its video from the body cam I know we are not fond of Zero Hedge but it is just actual video

No broken windows?

Strangely, officers in the video above can be heard contradicting the official narrative,

“We do not have a broken window,” one of the officers named Cory clearly states after making entry into room 32-135.

“Standby, we’ve got curtains open on a window that’s not broken,” another voice can be heard saying in the video as officers frantically pull back the curtains.

“It’s not, it’s not, it’s not [broken] — Corey it’s not,” one officer makes clear.

Scroll down to the the video
"steven paddocks MB hotel room"

it is the one that is 2 23 in duration --

there def is dialog about windows -- what do you guys think they are concluding ? There is a lot of talkover and I cant tell if they ultimately found broken window or not?

They sure are running around the room touching a lot of stuff arent they

what is all that banging sounds like they are lifting up guns and tossing them back down on the floor

so they just blew off a door and there is no smoke in the room??

Do they have smokeless bombs?

At 108 the cop IS at the window (by the big post) where the stills show broken glass and bullets all nicely laid out on top of the glass -- all shiny and stuff.

Do bullets come out of machine guns all polished and pretty?

Things sure start to make a lot more sense once we put more than one human in the room during the shooting huh?

Takes away all the running back and forth in smoke filled rooms

All along if one thinks about the breaks in shooting might have been much more about making sure it does not sound like more than one shooter as opposed to reloading.

He goes other shooter goes he goes -- would give a chance for smoke to get out of that area while the other snipers shoot.

That makes no sense you got 24 machine guns in the room and you need minutes between to reload --from a dude who has cameras set up etc but for some unexplainable reason he does not get more than one machine gun ready to roll.

Mandalay Bay Shooting Body Camera Footage Released: No Broken Windows Reported

This dept sure does not have corruption issues

one of the SWAT officers involved in the breach of Paddock's room was arrested in February on counts of sexually assaulting a child and kidnapping. Bret Thiel

four counts each of sex assault against a child under 14, sex assault against a child under 16, six counts of kidnapping, five counts of lewdness against a child under 14, and two counts of child abuse or neglect.

The only conclusion about above is stuff was known and covered up -- over and over these are not isolated violations -- lots of victims

18 charges and no one in the dept knew anything at all

North Las Vegas and Metro police officers responded about 7:30 p.m. Wednesday to a desert area in the far northwest valley after receiving a call about a man who was possibly suicidal, Metro Lt. David Gordon said.

Metro SWAT was eventually dispatched, Gordon said. (So now we have SWAT in action and I can't find any news video of the scene? That went on for hours?

Thiel has been employed with Metro since August 1998, Metro Officer Aden OcampoGomez said.




Police: Metro officer accused of sex assault against a child

There is a clip of channel 8 coverage of the event here:

morphonios


oh brother what a mess huh?

Oh it is more than a mess my brother!
I could write a book on all of the lies and deception I have seen in this case since the day after it happened.
There is literally so much of it there is nowhere to start.
Remember when the MSM used to investigate stories like this and report back to the public? .... yea., that doesn’t happen anymore. Now they just regurgitate whatever narrative they are given by authorities.

The LVMPD was forced to release these documents and video. But that’s all they are doing. Releasing them. They aren’t answering any questions about it and they aren’t providing any context whatsoever. And the inept MSM just goes with it. It is disgraceful.

 

[x_files]

Oh it is more than a mess my brother!
I could write a book on all of the lies and deception I have seen in this case since the day after it happened.
There is literally so much of it there is nowhere to start.
Remember when the MSM used to investigate stories like this and report back to the public? .... yea., that doesn’t happen anymore. Now they just regurgitate whatever narrative they are given by authorities.

The LVMPD was forced to release these documents and video. But that’s all they are doing. Releasing them. They aren’t answering any questions about it and they aren’t providing any context whatsoever. And the inept MSM just goes with it. It is disgraceful.

Investigative journalism is dead or at least not enough journalists to cover all the crazy crimes right now.

 

[Sillybilly]

Numerous posts have been removed. If you need to discuss the new software and any related issues, please post in the appropriate thread.

"Welcome to Websleuths"

 

[Jennifer17]

No one has done even half a job explaining why LE and witnesses are hiding something. What are they hiding? What is the point of covering this up?

 

[CARIIS]

Oh it is more than a mess my brother!
I could write a book on all of the lies and deception I have seen in this case since the day after it happened.
There is literally so much of it there is nowhere to start.
Remember when the MSM used to investigate stories like this and report back to the public? .... yea., that doesn’t happen anymore. Now they just regurgitate whatever narrative they are given by authorities.

The LVMPD was forced to release these documents and video. But that’s all they are doing. Releasing them. They aren’t answering any questions about it and they aren’t providing any context whatsoever. And the inept MSM just goes with it. It is disgraceful.

The only entity IMO is the federal govt that can so erase a story from the planet.

The only story I know of that has not had leaks -- its got to be you will be murdered if you do and get caught

it sure was not a small operation there has to be some reason why anyone aware of this has not leaked

its actually scary if you think about it

and their getting away with it

its incredible

 

[CARIIS]

Numerous posts have been removed. If you need to discuss the new software and any related issues, please post in the appropriate thread.

"Welcome to Websleuths"

My fault

 

[CARIIS]

No one has done even half a job explaining why LE and witnesses are hiding something. What are they hiding? What is the point of covering this up?

If we move over to Iran Contra type of deal that is IMO where this goes

its like arms dealing terrorists buying sting operations FBI CIA NSA stuff

I am telling ya all that Janet Air stuff right across the street is incredible as far as MB goes .

Los Vegas is currupt Soros comes up in this stuff we are talking huge money

money is power

how on earth the head dude of MGM selling off junk months before is an indicator of all kinds of huge stuff blows my mind

It Iran Contra like stuff IMO and or fast and furious operations something big like that

Anyone heard anything about of any of them?

where is campos

the handsome engineer ( yea right if he did not like look like sterotypical CIA - give me a break)

Miss Mary Lou

never learned why the corners office was put on lockdown for weeks

IMO MB has been a huge participant - whatever it was has been going on for quite a while and something went very wrong

I do believe Paddock was a informant (arms) and his cover got blown or he was threatening to come out with it all

whatever it all is it is potent enough to shut down a global media

 

[CARIIS]

It occured to me there are youngins here!!

A rough overview - it sure as a heck was not some senior citizen mass shooting IMO - several of us have felt that way very early on.

I truly believe we are talking about something like Iran Contra :

For our youngins!!

It was huge - like Watergate the hearings were covered by all three networks (back then there were only three!) all day long for ages --just like Watergate - just huge


1,500 American missiles had been sold

Independent Counsel Lawrence Walsh launched an eight-yearinvestigation into what by then had become known as the Iran-Contra Affair. In all, 14 people were charged,




here is a 5 minute overview

It was a ratings smash hit!! 41 days

Just to give our youngins an example of the hearings -- 41 days of this all day long!! It was riveting!

If the testimony of Lieut. Col. Oliver L. North were a regularly scheduled soap opera, it would be the biggest hit on television. His appearances are attracting five times as many viewers as the most popular daytime show, ''General Hospital.'

That makes Colonel North a smash hit by any television standard except the one that usually counts the most - advertising revenues. Because ABC, NBC and CBS are carrying Colonel North's testimony about the Iran-contra affair without commercial interruption, the three networks are losing $600,000 to $1 million a day in advertising revenue.





Iran-Contra Affair: Facts and Summary | HISTORY.com

 

[enelram]

For those of you that believe this was an arms dealing deal gone

bad, I totally agree with you- based on my past scary experience

dealing with, rather making an acquaintence of someone who

was a player in the 'selling arms to Iran' fiasco in the '80's.

These operations are so much bigger and more complex than the

average law-abiding citizen can ever imagine. And very dangerous.

The most important tidbit I learned from doing my own amateur investigation, and then having so much confirmed by
a gov't. criminal investigation division, was that law enforcement
people are usually heavily involved in many ways in addition
to covering for others.

These people involved in these deals don't mess around with
snoopers or snitches. I can fully understand why the media
has backed off this incident. they know.

There's so much money involved in arms dealing, it's like
drug dealing- these things run so deep they will never get solved.

But no doubt about LE, including FBI is involved and also covering. My experience only.

 

[Gooddeeds]

For those of you that believe this was an arms dealing deal gone

bad, I totally agree with you- based on my past scary experience

dealing with, rather making an acquaintence of someone who

was a player in the 'selling arms to Iran' fiasco in the '80's.

These operations are so much bigger and more complex than the

average law-abiding citizen can ever imagine. And very dangerous.

The most important tidbit I learned from doing my own amateur investigation, and then having so much confirmed by
a gov't. criminal investigation division, was that law enforcement
people are usually heavily involved in many ways in addition
to covering for others.

These people involved in these deals don't mess around with
snoopers or snitches. I can fully understand why the media
has backed off this incident. they know.

There's so much money involved in arms dealing, it's like
drug dealing- these things run so deep they will never get solved.

But no doubt about LE, including FBI is involved and also covering. My experience only.

Agree! He didn’t just bring all that up there for nothing. It’s dimensional in the powers that be...

I wonder what’s going on with Haig, I haven’t looked at much of it recently.

 

[coastal]

For those of you that believe this was an arms dealing deal gone

bad, I totally agree with you- based on my past scary experience

dealing with, rather making an acquaintence of someone who

was a player in the 'selling arms to Iran' fiasco in the '80's...

(respectfully snipped for space)

BBM. Now ^ that's a story I'd love to hear! Care to share details? LOL, I doubt you do, and that's probably for the best.
I bet it's quite a story, though.
Cool.

 

[will4u]

That makes no sense you got 24 machine guns in the room and you need minutes between to reload --from a dude who has cameras set up etc but for some unexplainable reason he does not get more than one machine gun ready to roll.

I don't know if there was one or multiple shooters, and i don't know enough about this case to speculate,

i will just say that the breaks in the shooting could be the shooter or shooters doing just that, taking breaks!!

shooting a machine gun with a bump stock is VERY physically taxing on your body!!

even somebody who is 100% physically fit would have a very difficult time shooting a gun like that for 1-2 minutes without a break,

every time that gun fires, the bump stock makes it feel like somebody is hitting you in the shoulder with a god damn baseball bat!

 

[CARIIS]

I don't know if there was one or multiple shooters, and i don't know enough about this case to speculate,

i will just say that the breaks in the shooting could be the shooter or shooters doing just that, taking breaks!!

shooting a machine gun with a bump stock is VERY physically taxing on your body!!

even somebody who is 100% physically fit would have a very difficult time shooting a gun like that for 1-2 minutes without a break,

every time that gun fires, the bump stock makes it feel like somebody is hitting you in the shoulder with a god damn baseball bat!

and a senior citizen who spent the last 20 years of his life sitting on a chair pushing buttons!!

 

[cujenn81]

MOO

LE and MB knew what was really going on . I think the 4 that breached the room were in on the operation and HAD to be the four that breached.

It sure seems like there was a heck of a lot of LE not doing much or being told to stand down .

Directed SWAT officers away from a machine gun tooting sniper makes no sense at all

Obviously the entire dept cant be aware of what MB and higher ups in the dept know about what was really going on

They had to IMO have as much craziness as possible until the snipers were gotten to the helicopter and out of the area.

I always found it unique that pretty early on they all started talking about "diversions" in real time . Who would even put that thought out so quick until each scene was actually checked out.

Having "diversions" sure seems like a good part of a training exercise!

From the onset all this they had no idea where the firing was coming from is flat out silly. There are tons of videos from people there who had no trouble at all ascertaining where the shots were coming from .

It was not like it was two shots jeezzzz made no sense from the get go and less so now!

I would think if you were in a drill and all of a sudden all this brakes out it sure would become really confusing in an instant would it not.

Who are the bad guys REALLY ? Think about it for a second all of a sudden real people are getting shot and killed ? That would result in the chaos we saw that night

I have tried and tried to find it again. It is the long version of the cowboy dude. At the end of that clip he goes up to a cop ( who had on those glow in the dark bright yellow vests) THey are used in training exersises. In real life cops are not running around glowing in the dark -- especially during a machine gun volley..

Back on track - the cop is hiding behind what looks like a road barrier. And cowboy dude runs up to him and asks him to help and the cop was like I am not going out there. To me that hit me as it WAS training of some sort that went really whacko suddenly.

I would also think if one is in the mindset of training as opposed to actual it would change perceived need to respond super quickly because training is all about learning.

However, when I saw the video of the charade of the team who ended up breaching (the one with cops urinating and snacking along the way) that sure as heck seemed training gone wrong.

The cop video is nonsense. What body cam is aimed at the instructors mouth ? A body cam that will used in review of the exersise later -- with nice clear audio would be interesting and helpful.

Some of his directions throughout sure seemed more like reminders of key things in training not in real life event. There was a hockeyness to the dialog.

Having to tell a bunch of trained officers to hold here and now go right and where to be in terms of front or back I think that is pretty well thought out in advance and known by the team. They all have assigned positions

This endless stating of what I would think is core SWAT training with that teams that always work together exactly for that reason made no sense.

There was a exercise "pace" to it all. Going through the motions more to play it out thinking noone was really in danger. The amount of urgency , or lack of it, is certainly incongruent with what ended up really going on that night.

The info about the training was out there. I knew about it early on but the thread was getting very heated and very focused on it being a Paddock event as opposed to something much bigger.

I become more convinced that it was a big operation with lots of moving parts that got beyond Lombardo's control and the FBI knew instantly Lombardo had better have a babysitter and got him one instnatly.

All this nonsense that MB is being so secretive is cause of lawsuits that is why they have lawyers and insurance. They also know they can drag out payments for decades .

MB IMO was getting a kickback for allowing arms dealing to go on its hotel . That is real reason why they needed to throw out so much smoke -- muddy everything up. They did not expect the SC to make them release stuff -- so now truths are coming out that can only to one thing

this was not some senior citizen who needed 42 machine guns to kill people

I do believe there were multiple snipers . I believe that black sedan speeding off to the heliport was the snipers being gotten out of the area. The helicopters flight track is totally illegal . That one helicopter is the only one that turned its transponder off and then on.

The speeding sedan time line wise fits with the rushing the sniper team to the heliport and the atc tapes also fit the timeline of the sedan getting to the airport and the helicopter then making a mad dash across the night sky.

something went very wrong that night ........................................................

I don't know what to think about what might be going on here but the one thing I am certain of is that someone is hiding something. The reasons behind their shadiness might be as "innocent" as plausible deniability or the desire to avoid public outrage because things were not handled properly... or it might be more sinister than that and corruption and collusion could be at play. I just don't know.

WHY LE had such a difficult time determining where the shooting was located is beyond me. Especially when you consider the two officers who were inside the MB at the security desk when the shooting started and heard the engineer guy say shots were being fired on the 32nd floor. If you watch the videos recorded by concertgoers, it's clear that no one else seemed to have a problem locating him.

I also can't figure out WHY an officer would seriously stop to relieve himself when there's a live shooter killing people? Or WHY he wouldn't turn his camera off to urinate but would turn it off before he entered the hotel room? These are logical questions that need honest answers. BUT, I don't necessarily think this was a training scenario gone wrong either. I've seen SWAT officers call out their steps/directions like that in every single video I've ever seen of them performing a breach. From what I understand, they move as a group like that -- in slow and steady paces -- for safety purposes. And, cops may not typically wear those orange safety vests on an everyday basis but it makes sense to wear them at a large event like that, so they're easily identifiable.

The helicopter and speeding sedan stuff does bother me a bit, though. I'm trying not to be cynical but also not naive. My gut tells me that the police panicked when the shooting began and that's the reason for their insufficient response. To avoid owning up to their mistake -- because they don't want to admit they may have saved lives if they'd responded differently -- they haven't been forthcoming with answers and have been vague with the answers they have given. At least, that's what I hope the reason for all this is.

 

[will4u]

Also, IMO only of course,

when i watch all the videos people have recorded who were at the concert, the gunshot sounds are far too loud to be coming from the MB 30+ floors up, the gun shots sound a lot closer then that to me, and a lot lower down, and there are clearly (going by sound) at least two guns firing in these videos, in one video the first gun stops, and the second gun continues on,

another thing i am very skeptical of is the broken windows, even if you used a sledge hammer or an axe, you would have an extremely difficult time to break a hole even the size of a golf ball, it would probably take one person over an hour or more, and that would be somebody who was very physically fit, bullets from a gun would penetrate through the window but they would not break a hole in it, the glass would only shatter,

also, where is all the broken glass gone? no glass in any of the pictures on the floor, and no reports of any broken glass on the ground outside, i am beginning to wonder if ANY shots were fired from that hotel room, it seems to me like the entire room was staged and setup as a distraction,

 

[KaaBoom]

Also, IMO only of course, when i watch all the videos people have recorded who were at the concert, the gunshot sounds are far too loud to be coming from the MB 30+ floors up, the gun shots sound a lot closer then that to me, and a lot lower down, and there are clearly (going by sound) at least two guns firing in these videos, in one video the first gun stops, and the second gun continues on,

How do you tell how how high or low the shots were coming, from watching the videos? With all due respect, that is technically impossible to detect from watching a video. As for the sound of two guns I believe you are hearing the echo off the nearby buildings.