NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #4

[human]

The brand of the aircraft has no implications in terms of piloting one .

It is determined by rating of plane surrounding things like weight number f passengers number of engine distances etc etc

He did get his instrument landing cert - which means he would be able to fly in the dark , relying on instruments only.

Until a pilot does that, in general aviation they can only fly in see and be seen environments.

Daylight minimum visual requirements etc etc

JFK Jr made some errors as it relates to these criteria.

O/t. My beother in law was an air traffic controller at a center, not a tower. They controlled 1/3of the airspace in the US.

At one time there were a lot of pilots around the time of JFK jr that were driving their planes right into the ground. My BIL said that the body is telling you something different than the instruments so they believe the body and head straight for earth. I have not heard a lot of that happening lately.

The Cirrus plane is supposed to be super safe but it has had several crashes .

 

[bighairdontcare]

BBM.

This. Right. Here.

It was always in him. That is what this tells me 1000 percent. He was clearly a ticking time bomb. Hindsight is always 20 /20 with these people.

Rioting is not a socially acceptable act.

Dressing in a "flak jacket", arming yourself , and lying in wait like a sniper on a rooftop to "wait for the rioters" is also not a socially acceptable act. Its an act of a disturbed person. A disturbed person who ultimately repeated this same behavior , but this time he directed at innocent concertgoers.

If someone breaks into your home and you defend yourself, its one thing.

Playing out some sniper fantasy is another. The signs were there.

Also, I watched the brother's second interview in full and my jaw was on the floor. His affect was so inappropriate to the content. The whole thing was just beyond bizarre. And if you go back and watch the very beginning, he flashes such an angry and creepy look at a reporter after the reporter asks "How is your mother". It was so creepy. Just an observation. I have many from that interview. So many bizarre comments, so much rambling. The brother is SO superficial. Perseverating on his brother's wealth. So many shallow comments.

"Not everyone works at Taco Bell" (regarding his brothers wealth)

"You'll probably be investigating me at some point".

Bragging about eating sushi at "fusion restaurants"

You can also see the arrogance of the shooter in the comments. The whole "go get me a sandwich" comment and you just knew to do what he asked commentary, gives us a peek .

You want to paint him as some "evil genius", while he was "just steve" (Or something like that). So many comments lacked empathy, he was so glib , superficial, and totally rambling.

Just some really really WEIRD stuff. And I don't remember anyone at that point calling his brother an "evil genius". He is the one that used that term over an over again.

The family dynamics in this family, from early on to now, would reveal A LOT.

I thought the same. I’ve discussed that interview at length with a friend and she thinks that “the media” is making him look that way. No way! Although I’m sure he has been bombarded by reporters, his comments and demeanor are extremely bizarre! I was shocked by what was coming out of his mouth. I’m not one to say how a grieving family member should present themselves, but I found this truly odd- despite being in shock, grieving , frustrated or upset. To me, he seems like a loose cannon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...d/201212/mass-shooters-are-they-loners-choice

 

[HMSHood]

BBM.

This. Right. Here.

It was always in him. That is what this tells me 1000 percent. He was clearly a ticking time bomb. Hindsight is always 20 /20 with these people.

Rioting is not a socially acceptable act.

Dressing in a "flak jacket", arming yourself , and lying in wait like a sniper on a rooftop to "wait for the rioters" is also not a socially acceptable act. Its an act of a disturbed person. A disturbed person who ultimately repeated this same behavior , but this time he directed at innocent concertgoers.

If someone breaks into your home and you defend yourself, its one thing.

Playing out some sniper fantasy is another. The signs were there.

Also, I watched the brother's second interview in full and my jaw was on the floor. His affect was so inappropriate to the content. The whole thing was just beyond bizarre. And if you go back and watch the very beginning, he flashes such an angry and creepy look at a reporter after the reporter asks "How is your mother". It was so creepy. Just an observation. I have many from that interview. So many bizarre comments, so much rambling. The brother is SO superficial. Perseverating on his brother's wealth. So many shallow comments.

"Not everyone works at Taco Bell" (regarding his brothers wealth)

"You'll probably be investigating me at some point".

Bragging about eating sushi at "fusion restaurants"

You can also see the arrogance of the shooter in the comments. The whole "go get me a sandwich" comment and you just knew to do what he asked commentary, gives us a peek .

You want to paint him as some "evil genius", while he was "just steve" (Or something like that). So many comments lacked empathy, he was so glib , superficial, and totally rambling.

Just some really really WEIRD stuff. And I don't remember anyone at that point calling his brother an "evil genius". He is the one that used that term over an over again.

The family dynamics in this family, from early on to now, would reveal A LOT.

I am more convinced that Stephen Paddock is a psychopath and injustice collector.

I see similarities between Paddock and Charles Whitman, Elliot Rodger, Omar Mateen, Vester Flanagan, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Andrew Cunanan, Anders Breivik, and Osama bin Laden. He also shows characteristics similar to Jodi Arias, Lori Drew, Betty Broderick, and Yoselyn Ortega. They are all injustice collectors.

Paddock had a sadistic streak like in Rodger and Harris.

His family dynamics is interesting. Father and brother (Bruce) have criminal records. The father is a con artist and robber. The brother is a low level criminal ranging from vandalism to theft.

I notice many of them had poor relationship with parent(s) or had an absent parent(s). Some are known to have been abused like Whitman, Breivik, bin Laden, and Mateen.

They tend to be consumed by envy. I have not heard of Stephen Paddock being consumed by envy. Rodger, Harris, Cunanan, bin Laden, Broderick, and Drew are consumed by envy.

They also tend to be repressed in nature. They repress things for a long time and it blows up on them.

 

[human]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...d/201212/mass-shooters-are-they-loners-choice

He is a different kind of loner. He was married twice and it is stated that he gets along with his ex wives.

The woman who managed his property thinks he was fabulous. He has a gf who everyone thinks is sweet.

It does not appear he has any buddies. At least any who are willing to come forward.

There is a possible prostitute that said he loved violent sex.

His job was the gambling macihines. Lots of people spend hours at their jobs.

Sounds like no friends.

I wonder what people on cruises thought of him. Those are quite close quarters. When cruise ships are in port, there is no gambling is there? Or did he only go to countries where there is gambling. Do they do gambling all night on cruise ships? What did he do if not gambling?

 

[enelram]

I wonder if FBI will interview the other brother, Patrick II and Bruce. I'm sure they can learn a lot about this family by talking at length to all of them.

Does anyone know if SP's father and mother got a divorce?

So his father lived w/ wife and SP til SP was 7 years old. If he was a diagnosed psychopath, I wonder if or how much
trauma/abuse was thrust upon little SP during those 7 years. That could certainly explain some things about him.

I hope FBI gives us the lowdown on SP's childhood and family.

Also wonder if any of the brothers were ever diagnosed w/ any behavior problems while in school.

I believe there is so much we don't know about SP's life, yet but I've always believed you look closely at their childhood.

Also according to brother Eric, SP was picked on and beaten by brother Patrick, which is why they had no relationship as adults. Bet there was a lot more violence in that family. No one EVER knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Not every family lives like Ozzie and Harriet. there's a lot more to come out on this one.

 

[HMSHood]

I wonder if FBI will interview the other brother, Patrick II and Bruce. I'm sure they can learn a lot about this family by talking at length to all of them.

Does anyone know if SP's father and mother got a divorce?

So his father lived w/ wife and SP til SP was 7 years old. If he was a diagnosed psychopath, I wonder if or how much
trauma/abuse was thrust upon little SP during those 7 years. That could certainly explain some things about him.

I hope FBI gives us the lowdown on SP's childhood and family.

Also wonder if any of the brothers were ever diagnosed w/ any behavior problems while in school.

I believe there is so much we don't know about SP's life, yet but I've always believed you look closely at their childhood.

Also according to brother Eric, SP was picked on and beaten by brother Patrick, which is why they had no relationship as adults. Bet there was a lot more violence in that family. No one EVER knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Not every family lives like Ozzie and Harriet. there's a lot more to come out on this one.

I am curious about their childhood as well. I wonder if any of the brothers had history of bullying, especially Stephen and Patrick.

I suspect there is a lot more to this.

 

[gray.jay]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...d/201212/mass-shooters-are-they-loners-choice

Great article. Dovetails the "Injustice Collectors" article that has already been posted here a couple times. I would clarify this quote from the article:

"These are not likeable individuals. No one seems to have known them well."

I think they often seem likeable enough to people who only interact with them once or twice, or people they have a very superficial relationship with.

I don't think that the killing was directly related to his gambling, but I do believe he had a gambling addiction. Addiction and narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders go hand in hand, there's debate as to which comes first.

 

[m00c0w]

I wonder if FBI will interview the other brother, Patrick II and Bruce. I'm sure they can learn a lot about this family by talking at length to all of them.

Does anyone know if SP's father and mother got a divorce?

So his father lived w/ wife and SP til SP was 7 years old. If he was a diagnosed psychopath, I wonder if or how much
trauma/abuse was thrust upon little SP during those 7 years. That could certainly explain some things about him.

I hope FBI gives us the lowdown on SP's childhood and family.

Also wonder if any of the brothers were ever diagnosed w/ any behavior problems while in school.

I believe there is so much we don't know about SP's life, yet but I've always believed you look closely at their childhood.

Also according to brother Eric, SP was picked on and beaten by brother Patrick, which is why they had no relationship as adults. Bet there was a lot more violence in that family. No one EVER knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Not every family lives like Ozzie and Harriet. there's a lot more to come out on this one.

I just heard on the Fox News Sirius simulcast that the FBI interviewed the weird brother (as opposed to the criminal brother) for several hours this weekend. He did not give any indications as to what the questions were about, but said he doesn’t feel he’s a suspect. Like he’d say if he did, though...

 

[Spice]

I really see nothing in what you have listed that shows this man was mentally ill. Why some seem insistent on this being the case is puzzling. People don't have to be mentally ill to pull something like this off. They just need the determination to do so which he had. I think he was very coherent when he planned and carried out his mission goal.

Everything he did leading up to the actual shooting showed he applied clear cognitive thought processes when doing so even if what he did was very terribly wrong and he knew it.

MD is searching for an excuse. Who can blame her?

Imo, he was on a mission to become the worst mass shooter in history. Imo, he thought of this as another achievement among the others things he had succeeded in doing during his lifetime whether it was achieving his goal to become a millionaire or achieving his goal to become a high stakes poker player.

I am beginning to highly doubt the claims of alcohol abuse as well and chock it up to people that didn't even know him nor had ever met him nor had ever cut his hair as just wanting their 15 seconds of fame.

This man wasn't mentally ill and that is why there hasn't been any evidence supporting that assumption. One does not have to be mentally ill to put together a masterful plan to become and be a mass shooter.

All of those things could be exhibited in anyone. Very few people are the exact same way 24/7 out of the day. It does not point to mental illness just because someone may be irritable or anti-social on any given day. It was also said he had a very good relationship with his ex and MD loved SP dearly. imo

IMO, always throwing the mental illness excuse out without any evidence is done so some can think only the mentally ill can become mass shooters when that is far from the truth. Anyone can become a murderer with no mental illness in their history whatsoever.

None of what he did showed he was mentally ill at the time. It did show he was thinking clearly right down to all of the tiny details he had to enact to do this horrific mass murder.

IMO

You can be very mentally ill and meticulous and organized at the same time. It is a fallacy to believe otherwise.

If you research personality disorders (Yes, they are a mental illness, diagnosable using the DSM-V, are evidenced based with specific criteria). Mental illness is not always visible or obvious, especially with personality disorders. Any Mental Health Professional will tell you that. Not all Mental Illness are treatable with medications as in psychosis (Schizophrenia spectrum Disorders, Bipolar Disorder Anxiety Disorders and Depression/ Depression with psychotic features amongst many others.) Personality Disorders are in a class of their own and psychotropic medications are to the first line of treatment. Personality disorders do not present with the same symptoms of obvious acute psychosis and disorganized behavior.

(Although Borderline Personality Disorder can sometimes mask itself and look a lot like Bipolar Disorder. A good clinician will be able to tell the difference over time )

Again, to say someone who commits such a horrific act like this is "Mentally Ill" is not an attempt to excuse the shooter. There is ALWAYS a component of mental illness and or diagnosable personality pathology, involved in people who commit these acts. That does not mean that they did not know what they were doing was wrong at the time. In fact, certain personality disorders would ENJOY it.

He was homicidal and suicidal. That right there is the exact criteria that will get you psychiatrically hospitalized against your own will legally if it is detected and you wind up in front of a psychiatrist and mental health team for assessment. They can involuntarily hospitalize you against your will due to suicidal and/ or homicidal ideation for stabilization because you are considered to be psychiatrically unstable and there is clear imminent risk to self or others.

To say that meticulously planning and carrying out a massacre undetected somehow indicates that you are not at all mentally ill is to completely minimize the severity and persistence of personality disorders. A person that is operating at optimum mental health would not even be capable of doing something like this. Their empathy and compassion as a human being would stop them.

Also, there is a strong correlation between pathological gambling (SP was a gambling ADDICT, just with means and good at what he did) and Cluster B personality Disorders in established mental health research.

Cluster B personality disorders are diagnosable mental illness that are difficult to treat, but nevertheless are mental illnesses.There are entire treatment models used to specifically treat them, namely Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) (most successful with Borderline Personality Disorder. Antisocial Personality Disorder is more treatment resistant but can in some cases respond or spontaneously remit, albeit rarely. Cluster B Personality Disorders include:

Antisocial Personality Disorder (Formerly sociopathy in the professional vernacular or Psychopathy)

Narcissistic Personalty Disorder

Histrionic Personality Disorder

Borderline Personality Disorder.

I provided a peer reviewed journal article on this in an earlier another thread. It is also important to note that you can have a personality disorder AND another type of mental illness at the same time, such as Bipolar Disorder etc. It is not always one or the other.

Here is some literature on the prevalence of personality disorders in pathological gamblers , especially antisocial personality disorder .

This is just one published study of many and I chose this one at random. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2593739/

 

[Gooddeeds]

I thought the same. I’ve discussed that interview at length with a friend and she thinks that “the media” is making him look that way. No way! Although I’m sure he has been bombarded by reporters, his comments and demeanor are extremely bizarre! I was shocked by what was coming out of his mouth. I’m not one to say how a grieving family member should present themselves, but I found this truly odd- despite being in shock, grieving , frustrated or upset. To me, he seems like a loose cannon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

-Definitely this brother has exhibited odd behavior throughout. Have you muted the volume on clips of him speaking? Try it, it is interesting.

 

[bighairdontcare]

I am curious about their childhood as well. I wonder if any of the brothers had history of bullying, especially Stephen and Patrick.

I suspect there is a lot more to this.

What about their mother ? Isn’t she alive and in Florida? I’m shocked that reporters haven’t found her and interviewed her- especially because she can speak on his childhood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smeck]

I Think you have figured SP figured out! IMHO the sorry piece of chit and is basically is a Narcissistic Egomaniac!

I also feel like he was on a Fantasy Hunting Trip! He was no longer getting a mental high from his gambling wins or hunting trips to Alaska!
.
Therefore, he became obsessed with the power and high that he could achieve by using his gun sight to watch himself shoot and kill innocent humans!

He reminds me of the serial killer Gary Michael Hilton whose idolized the movie about hunting humans in the Alaskan forest!

I sure hope that the Law Enforcement guys were reading here! They might learn something from our opinions!

God Bless the families of the 58 new Angels and the 527 injured at the Highway 91 Concert!

I agree and I fear his mantra was " it's like shooting ducks in a barrel " so extremely sad for the victims

 

[enelram]

I am curious about their childhood as well. I wonder if any of the brothers had history of bullying, especially Stephen and Patrick.

I suspect there is a lot more to this.

Patrick II said he himself was much more violent than Stephen in their younger years. But, Patrick said he spent 17 years in the Air force and that changed him. and yes Eric said Patrick used to beat up on Stephen.

 

[enelram]

What about their mother ? Isn’t she alive and in Florida? I’m shocked that reporters haven’t found her and interviewed her- especially because she can speak on his childhood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She' 89-90 yrs. old, has no public address and who knows if she's mentally able to help here.

 

[m00c0w]

You can be very mentally ill and meticulous and organized at the same time. It is a fallacy to believe otherwise.

If you research personality disorders (Yes, they are a mental illness, diagnosable using the DSM-V, are evidenced based with specific criteria). Mental illness is not always visible or obvious, especially with personality disorders. Any Mental Health Professional will tell you that. Not all Mental Illness are treatable with medications (Personality Disorders a definitely not) and do not present with the same symptoms of obvious acute psychosis and disorganized behavior.

Although Borderline Personality Disorder can sometimes mask itself and look a lot like Bipolar Disorder. A good clinician will be able to tell the difference over time.

Again, to say someone who commits such a horrific act like this is "Mentally Ill" is not an attempt to excuse the shooter. There is ALWAYS a component of mental illness and or diagnosable personality pathology involved in people who commit these acts. That does not mean that they did not know what they were doing was wrong at the time. In fact, certain personality disorders would ENJOY it.

He was homicidal and suicidal. That right there is the exact criteria that will get you psychiatrically hospitalized against your own will legally if it is detected and you wind up in front of a psychiatrist and mental health team for assessment.

To say that meticulously planning and carrying out a massacre undetected somehow indicates that you are not at all mentally ill is to completely minimize the severity and persistence of personality disorders. A person that is operating at optimum mental health would not even be capable of doing something like this. Their empathy and compassion as a human being would stop them.

Also, there is a strong correlation between pathological gambling (SP was a gambling ADDICT, just with means and good at what he did) and Cluster B personality Disorders in established mental health research.

Cluster B personality disorders are diagnosable mental illness that are difficult to treat, but nevertheless are mental illnesses.There are entire treatment models used to specifically treat them, namely Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) (most successful with Borderline Personality Disorder. Antisocial Personality Disorder is more treatment resistant but can in some cases respond or spontaneously remit, albeit rarely. Cluster B Personality Disorders include:

Antisocial Personality Disorder (Formerly sociopathy in the professional vernacular or Psychopathy)

Narcissistic Personalty Disorder

Histrionic Personality Disorder

Borderline Personality Disorder.

I provided a peer reviewed journal article on this in an earlier another thread. It is also important to note that you can have a personality disorder AND another type of mental illness at the same time, such as Bipolar Disorder etc. It is not always one or the other.

Here is some literature on the prevalence of personality disorders in pathological gamblers , especially antisocial personality disorder .

This is just one published study of many and I chose this one at random. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2593739/

Any mental health professional would also tell you it’s a fool’s errand to try and diagnose anything from a handful of vague and contradictory third-person accounts.

 

[m00c0w]

What about their mother ? Isn’t she alive and in Florida? I’m shocked that reporters haven’t found her and interviewed her- especially because she can speak on his childhood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mainstream media seems to be keeping a distance from anything that may reveal a true motive. What’s the saying about court, don’t ever ask any questions you don’t already know the answer to? I’m starting to feel like there’s a little of that going on to protect narratives with how quickly this has disappeared from headlines and investigative journalism has all but ceased.

 

[Spice]

Any mental health professional would also tell you it’s a fool’s errand to try and diagnose anything from a handful of vague and contradictory third-person accounts.

Who is diagnosing? I linked you to evidenced based research showing a strong prevalence of PD in persons with pathological gambling as part of the ongoing discussion. I don't remember specifically diagnosing anybody. .

Also, for the record , I am a licensed mental health professional. I also do not think you have to be one to understand that there is a component of mental illness in ALL of these horrific attacks. They lack any and all empathy or compassion for others amongst other pathology in human behavior.

With that being said, I am going to contact Admin to become a verified professional on this board now that I have made the statement.

 

[Ambitioned]

You've got to be kidding right?

For me, I don't differentiate between terrorists and this guy. They both terrorize innocent people. Timothy McVeigh was a domestic terrorist just like this guy. Methods may have been different, but the intent was the same. For all we know he could have hooked up with an anti-government group (which in my mind are domestic terrorists).

Britain has had numerous attacks there.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/27/violent-rising-england-wales-police-figures-ons

I can go on and on about the violence across the world (including first world nations), but that is just one article. IIRC, guns are outlawed in Britain. So, they've taken away the guns from legitimate gun owners but they still have a rise in criminals using guns.

Frankly, I would rather be standing next to a conceal carry person who MAY protect me in the event some wack-job walks up and decides to start terrorizing people.

We can agree to disagree on this point.

Agreed! Criminals will kill no matter what the tools. You won't find them saying, "I'm gonna hurt you but first let me pass the background checks."

Mainstream media seems to be keeping a distance from anything that may reveal a true motive. What’s the saying about court, don’t ever ask any questions you don’t already know the answer to? I’m starting to feel like there’s a little of that going on to protect narratives with how quickly this has disappeared from headlines and investigative journalism has all but ceased.

I feel ya. Been thinking this for the past week.

 

[m00c0w]

Who is diagnosing? I linked you to evidenced based research showing a strong prevalence of PD in persons with pathological gambling as part of the ongoing discussion. I don't remember specifically diagnosing anybody. .

Also, for the record , I am a licensed mental health professional. I also do not think you have to be one to understand that there is a component of mental illness in ALL of these horrific attacks. They lack any and all empathy or compassion for others amongst other pathology in human behavior.

With that being said, I am going to contact Admin to become a verified professional on this board now that I have made the statement.

You literally just said:

SP was a gambling ADDICT​

And then heavily implied he has a cluster B personality disorder, which you've also done several times in this thread based solely on the fact that he gambled a lot.

Note, I also never said you diagnosed anyone. But you are throwing many ideas out there that may be latched onto by others when we really have no idea of what was going on in this guy's head. I have seen several people claim he probably had this or that. I guess my post is better viewed as a caveat to yours rather than opposition to it.