NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #8

[Spice]

-No lay person gets access to a crime scene for many reasons. In this case where would the line be drawn?

Priest
Rabbi
Cantor
Bishop
Dr. Phil
Deacon
Elder
Vicar
Chaplain
Zen Master
Prophet
Billy Graham
Depak

Once again:

It is not an active crime scene.

This is two private legal teams engaged in a pending lawsuit . Very different.

 

[Gooddeeds]

-No lay person gets access to a crime scene for many reasons. In this case where would the line be drawn?

Priest
Rabbi
Cantor
Bishop
Dr. Phil
Deacon
Elder
Vicar
Chaplain
Zen Master
Prophet
Billy Graham
Depak

-From a legal aspect, let’s just say whomever is actively a priest, and a very respected one. What if, prior to priesthood he was an attorney? What if one of his family members is an attorney...or a Judge, state official? I don’t have any inclination to think that, but this is just one of the many reasons a layman doesn’t get access.

 

[Gooddeeds]

It was released already by LE and not an active crime scene.

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-It’s an ongoing ACTIVE investigation. Its a crime scene of an historic massacre.
Is it open to the public now?

 

[Deleted member 158085]

-From a legal aspect, let’s just say whomever is actively a priest, and a very respected one. What if, prior to priesthood he was an attorney? What if one of his family members is an attorney...or a Judge, state official? I don’t have any inclination to think that, but this is just one of the many reasons a layman doesn’t get access.

1 - It does not matter because it is no longer an active crime scene.

2 - Are we really going to theorize that the priest may be a mole for someone?

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[Spice]

-It’s an ongoing ACTIVE investigation. Its a crime scene of an historic massacre.
Is it open to the public now?

It has been "released back to the hotel".

It is private property.

They can do whatever they want to do with it within the LAW.

And no, its not open to the "public". It was momentarily "open" to a priest. You have been following the thread, you know that. And as far as a "layman", he is a priest. Its a spiritual matter. I would love to find an attorney or judge that would take on having an issue with that....they would assert religious freedom /expression.

This is a non issue.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

-It’s an ongoing ACTIVE investigation. Its a crime scene of an historic massacre.
Is it open to the public now?

So if this investigation drags on for years, you expect MGM not to allow any layman in the room during that time?

That does not seem like a reasonable expectation to me.

They haven't opened it to the public. They invited a priest in for a blessing. It's their property. It's been released. They can do what they want as long as they don't violate the court order or the law.

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[Spice]

-It’s an ongoing ACTIVE investigation. Its a crime scene of an historic massacre.
Is it open to the public now?

It's an ACTIVE lawsuit. NOT an active crime scene. If it was an active forensic crime scene the FBI would still be in total control of it and it would not be released back to the hotel.

 

[Gooddeeds]

1 - It does not matter because it is no longer an active crime scene.

2 - Are we really going to theorize that the priest may be a mole for someone?

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-No, that’s why I stated that I have no inclination that he would be a mole, but from a legal standpoint that can be treacherous. That is ONE of the reasons for a ‘No Access’ to the Crime scene. It doesn’t matter if it’s not active.

 

[MsFacetious]

-No, that’s why I stated that I have no inclination that he would be a mole, but from a legal standpoint that can be treacherous. That is ONE of the reasons for a ‘No Access’ to the Crime scene. It doesn’t matter if it’s not active.

Active Crime Scene

A crime scene that is still giving off evidence and has not yet been completely processed and cleaned. A single Officer-in-charge is responsible for coordinating investigation at the scene. Unauthorized people (including witnesses) must be excluded from an active crime scene.

http://www2.cruzio.com/~zdino/psychology/criminal.justice.glossary.htm

Once the crime scene has been processed and released they relinquish control/possession back to the owners. Once the crime scene has been processed and released, law enforcement doesn't restrict who enters the scene.

They can delay the release of the scene if they feel they need to, get a court order to keep it in their control. Certainly would have been granted in this extreme case.

That scene is now out of LE's hands and in the hands of Mandalay Bay, who owns it. LE cannot restrict movement, seal it, r say who goes in or out now that it's released.

 

[MistyWaters]

Ive been catching up here and see posts stating JC had shrapnel in his pelvis, or his back. Here and in previous reports it was stated he had been shot in the leg. Can someone, anyone, please clarify this for me? TIA.

No the discussion was not about JC. You'd need to read back further to find his name.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Active Crime Scene

A crime scene that is still giving off evidence and has not yet been completely processed and cleaned. A single Officer-in-charge is responsible for coordinating investigation at the scene. Unauthorized people (including witnesses) must be excluded from an active crime scene.

http://www2.cruzio.com/~zdino/psychology/criminal.justice.glossary.htm

Once the crime scene has been processed and released they relinquish control/possession back to the owners. Once the crime scene has been processed and released, law enforcement doesn't restrict who enters the scene.

They can delay the release of the scene if they feel they need to, get a court order to keep it in their control. Certainly would have been granted in this extreme case.

That scene is now out of LE's hands and in the hands of Mandalay Bay, who owns it. LE cannot restrict movement, seal it, r say who goes in or out now that it's released.

Thank you. These facts continue to be ignored, but it explains why the priest blessing the room is not an issue.

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[Gooddeeds]

https://www.casino.org/news/judge-orders-mgm-to-preserve-evidence-at-route-91-shooting-sites

“The festival grounds have remained the same from that deadly night when Stephen Paddock opened fire from a 32nd floor suite of the Mandalay Bay, raining down more than 1,000 bullets on a crowd enjoying the Route 91 country music concert.

Lawyers sought to investigate not only the area of the tragedy but also the hotel suite that shooter Stephen Paddock turned into his deadly sniper’s nest.

District Judge Mark Denton signed the order granting the lawyers’ request.
The ruling comes about a week ahead of MGM CEO Jim Murren’s third-quarter financial call.

Even though economic impacts to the company won’t be seen until the fourth quarter of 2017, analysts and investors expect to hear Murren in some capacity address the impact of the tragedy on the company moving forward”

 

[MistyWaters]

October 31st --
"Next, attorneys said they plan to inspect the shooters room and surrounding hallways at the Mandalay Bay Hotel, and they’re hoping to get permission to do that by the end of next week."
http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/36732759/lawyers-tour-route-91-festival-grounds

Earlier they were granted entrance to the festival grounds. It might be a misunderstanding that it's as simple as a group of lawyers just showing up and walking around.

"Accident reconstructionists and surveyors joined the survivors and their attorneys to inspect the crime scene, calling it a sobering experience. "

 

[Cryptic]

I was raised Catholic too. I'm not suggesting it's out of the ordinary or weird. Like I said I wanted to see if he was a Catholic priest (not all priests are Catholic), what kind of a priest he is (not all Catholic priests are the same), and then I became curious about his chain of command. All legitimate questions about who he is and what he did, but not questioning the validity of who he is or what he did.

If he was Catholic (and statistically, he probably was) he would either be a diocesian priest or a religious ordered priest.

If he is diocesian, his chain of command would be the Bishop of Las Vegas. Religious ordered priests have their own seperate provincial superiors. At times a religious ordered priest can be on long term assignment directly to a diocese. In this case, he would have the Bishop as his courtesy supervisor on a day to day basis, but his true supervisor would be his provincial superior.

 

[cujenn81]

Deleted, as article had already been posted and discussed in this thread.

 

[Cryptic]

-It’s an ongoing ACTIVE investigation. Its a crime scene of an historic massacre.
Is it open to the public now?

The public?- probably not. It is, however, open to two groups of people:
A. Those whom a judge has ordered to be given access
B. Those whom the property owner decides to grant access to.

Group 'B' apparently included a priest. My guess is that the attorneys are going to be disappointed as I doubt they will not find any "smoking guns" to further their lawsuits with. Rather, they will simply find a standard Las Vegas luxury casino suite.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

If he was Catholic (and statistically, he probably was) he would either be a diocesian priest or a religious ordered priest.

If he is diocesian, his chain of command would be the Bishop of Las Vegas. Religious ordered priests have their own seperate provincial superiors. At times a religious ordered priest can be on long term assignment directly to a diocese. In this case, he would have the Bishop as his courtesy supervisor on a day to day basis, but his true supervisor would be his provincial superior.

In any case, I'm considering emailing him and asking him to come in and bless this thread. It can't hurt.
;-)

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[bluesneakers]

If he was Catholic (and statistically, he probably was) he would either be a diocesian priest or a religious ordered priest.

If he is diocesian, his chain of command would be the Bishop of Las Vegas. Religious ordered priests have their own seperate provincial superiors. At times a religious ordered priest can be on long term assignment directly to a diocese. In this case, he would have the Bishop as his courtesy supervisor on a day to day basis, but his true supervisor would be his provincial superior.

I'm not sure where you get diocese of Las Vegas? The page I linked to was his bio from when he was a visiting fellow at Catholic University of America, a Catholic university located in Washington, DC, but he was previously Executive Director, Secretariat for Priestly Life and Ministry for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, pastor of St. Agnes of Bohemia parish in Chicago and president of St. Joseph College Seminary, and president of The Faith & Politics Institute.

Priests can have many jobs.

He might have been called on to visit Las Vegas because:

Another sign that Catholic leaders are redoubling their efforts on worker justice issues is a project to create a new generation of “labor priests.” From the 1920s through the 1960s, clergy who stood with and advocated for workers were a central part of the labor movement. Priests ran labor training schools, often in parish halls, where workers learned about the minutiae of collective bargaining and the principles of Catholic social teaching. Reverend Clete Kiley, a Chicago priest and director for immigration policy at UNITE HERE, which represents more than 270,000 workers in the hotel, gaming, food service, laundry, and airport industries, is determined to revive that tradition.

http://nfpc.org/priest-labor/

 

[bluesneakers]

In any case, I'm considering emailing him and asking him to come in and bless this thread. It can't hurt.
;-)

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Amen!

 

[Cryptic]

I'm not sure where you get diocese of Las Vegas? The page I linked to was his bio from when he was a visiting fellow at Catholic University of America, a Catholic university located in Washington, DC, but he was previously Executive Director, Secretariat for Priestly Life and Ministry for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, pastor of St. Agnes of Bohemia parish in Chicago and president of St. Joseph College Seminary, and president of The Faith & Politics Institute.

Priests can have many jobs.

A diocesian priest on long term assignment outside of his diocese (in this case Las Vegas) would still remain a diocesian priest of Las Vegas with his true superior being the Bishop of Las Vegas. Diocese transfers are rare. His day to day supervisor could well be somebody else though.

Likewise, he could, as you stated, be a visiting priest from elsewhere. If this is the case, he would need the local Bishop's permission to do ministerial activities not related to his visit in Las Vegas. Though I doubt any Bishop would enforce this requirement over a single blessing.

One way to tell if he is diocesian or religious would be to look for initials after his title (osb being a famous one). These initials would be those of his religious order. Dicoesian priests usually don't have those.