NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #9

[PrairieWind]

Didn’t they tell us that in the preliminary autopsy there was no abnormality?

I seem to recall that too, but I can't be certain. Remember Charles Whitman, the University of Texas sniper was found after his death to have a massive brain tumor. I initially wondered about something like that with Paddock, or perhaps cancer. I don't think any mental illness could be diagnosed. But perhaps presence of some type of drug/medication?

 

[CARIIS]

How would they “clear” shots fired so quick?

Think about that for a second. There are still witnesses saying there were shots fired at numerous hotels. How does LVMPD clear something when witnesses are still reporting they heard and saw shots fired?

For sure --- they were lightening fast

one of my favs was the auto drive car !!

oh there was one about 4 men dressed all in black getting out of the vehicle (the auto drive one!)

Originally Posted by CARIIS
I put on headphones after first volley she says hearing!


thats huge cause it does not fall into the "reports" of stuff

the trained paramedic also calling in under active fire after he is dead is interesting as well !!


It I stumble on it will link !!



She does use the word hearing, but she does not say she is hearing. moo

everything has context pop pop pop pop pop pop am hearing lots of gunfire pop pop pop pop pop pop

on what is obviously an open mike throughout -- the logical conclusion is she in not needing or waiting for verification -- her ears are hearing in the background machine guns she reports that to keep colleagues safe and then it happens again.

pretty logical to conclude that people were still firing machine guns long after the only shooter had died

that two can only lead to one conclusion ...in conjunction with the rest of the mess

 

[CARIIS]

Thoughts on the "injury" to the back of the calves, any thoughts? I seem to recall this being mentioned very early on after the shooting, or something about an injury. They only thing I could think of is perhaps when he shot himself he fell and landed on the one rifle. The report said one was found under his legs. I wouldn't think that would leave a noticeable wound, but who knows. I assume this rifle is the one seen on top of his legs in the photo. Why would they move it? Perhaps just to make sure it was unloaded and safe.

Rule one Never move anything in a crime scene until it is fully documented. They are calling thse the crime scene photos --which implies things were relocated prior to supposedly documenting the scene

This is not the only altered crime scene at this scene.

There is saw dust UNDER several items throughout several rooms. The only way sawdust can get UNDER anything is if item is placed back down on TOP of it.

.

 

[kdg411]

Have we seen the search warrant on this one? That is very interesting. The only thing I can think of, is perhaps SWAT had inserted a small camera under the suite door to look inside the suite to assess the situation before attempting their breech, and in doing so they saw Paddock kill himself. Problem with this is I don't think there is line of site from the front door to where Paddock was found laying. Could they have been looking through the window with a drone?

BBM

I posted a link to the documents in a reply to Tricia. Post #996

HTH

 

[CARIIS]

A coroner is not the same thing as a medical examiner

Both a coroner and a medical examiner perform forensic death investigations—examinations into the circumstances of any death that is sudden, unexpected or violent.

THE CRUCIAL DIFFERENCE IS THIS:
A CORONER IS AN ADMINISTRATOR OR ****A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER**** and a medical examiner is a doctor. A medical examiner is a forensic pathologist, a physician with specialized training in death investigation. In a medical examiner's office, a doctor called the chief medical examiner is in charge of both the death investigation and overseeing the autopsies performed by other doctors. CONSIDER whether the office calls itself a "Coroner" or "Medical Examiner.” The terms aren’t interchangeable.

Forensic pathologists are doctors, ***NOT POLICE OFFICERS and are not in the business of COVERING UP FOR ANYONE***. While they may rely on good relationships with the police department in order to get the information they need to do their job, they are committed to doing that job properly, for very good reasons—if they do not, they will either lose that job, or ruin their relationship with their own boss (the Coroner or medical examiner) in order to please an outside agency (the POLICE).

***Do not confuse cause and manner of death***

Cause of death is the disease or the injury that killed the person: heart disease, appendicitis, stab wound, etc. Manner of death is a classification of the cause of death that is separated into five categories: natural (for disease), accident, suicide, homicide or undetermined. It is incorrect to say "the cause of death was natural" or "a motor vehicle accident" because that means you are conflating cause and manner. It would be better to write "the manner of death was natural" or that "death was caused by trauma from the motor vehicle accident."

Snipped from:

https://www.forensicmag.com/article/2015/09/7-common-mistakes-regarding-autopsy-reports

THe head dude put the entire place on lockdown from everyone for several weeks.

Unheard of.

They had cops guarding the building.

Unheard of .

Things are amiss

 

[CoolJ]

I have soooooooo much to say. But I have a busy day with real life work stuff, so I will be back late this evening.

I think we need to re-evaluate the entire narrative. How can we believe anything at this point?

I think the entire crime scene (32135 & 32134) was staged. That doesn’t necessarily mean nobody shot out of those windows and doesn’t necessarily mean it wasn’t Paddock. But for whatever reason, they staged the entire room to fit a certain narrative. JMO

 

[CoolJ]

Oh yeah -

Has everyone here seen the movie “American Made” which was based on a true story?

Is everyone familiar with Operation Fast & Furious?

My advice is to familiarize yourselves with those two items.

 

[PrairieWind]

Rule one Never move anything in a crime scene until it is fully documented. They are calling thse the crime scene photos --which implies things were relocated prior to supposedly documenting the scene

This is not the only altered crime scene at this scene.

There is saw dust UNDER several items throughout several rooms. The only way sawdust can get UNDER anything is if item is placed back down on TOP of it.

.

I think a firearm that is near the suspect (even if deceased) would be immediately secured. At a minimum it would need to be cleared. A locked and loaded AR laying under a body is pretty dangerous. They can document it as having been under his legs. However, I do find the positioning of his body to be a bit odd.

 

[ocgrad]

Thoughts on the "injury" to the back of the calves, any thoughts? I seem to recall this being mentioned very early on after the shooting, or something about an injury. They only thing I could think of is perhaps when he shot himself he fell and landed on the one rifle. The report said one was found under his legs. I wouldn't think that would leave a noticeable wound, but who knows. I assume this rifle is the one seen on top of his legs in the photo. Why would they move it? Perhaps just to make sure it was unloaded and safe.

I am interested in more on the shots that occurred in the Living Room, shots fired into the entertainment cabinet, orange chair, wall through to 32-134 and into comforter. Maybe SPs' calves were grazed by one of those shots, enough to be called an injury but at the time not clearly a gunshot wound. If that were the case obviously someone else was there. For why would he alone fire toward the LR or the adjoining room?
The other option for injury to the back of his calves could occur from burning his legs on a rifle. There was a rifle under his body in the deceased picture but under his seat not calves. If earlier he backed up and fell over one, fell down into it, it could burn while he was trying to get off of it. Maybe it could also explain inadvertent shots fired toward room 32-134. Or his body was moved some as well as the weapons around him.

 

[Gooddeeds]

I think a firearm that is near the suspect (even if deceased) would be immediately secured. At a minimum it would need to be cleared. A locked and loaded AR laying under a body is pretty dangerous. They can document it as having been under his legs. However, I do find the positioning of his body to be a bit odd.

What about the one that was straddled ‘on top’ of his lower left leg ready for takeoff?

Its in perfect pod position.

Doesn’t seem to be leaning, unbalanced...

 

[Gooddeeds]

Oh yeah -

Has everyone here seen the movie “American Made” which was based on a true story?

Is everyone familiar with Operation Fast & Furious?

My advice is to familiarize yourselves with those two items.

Geeshhh!

I’m wondering if Joe-lo has a confirmed way out of this debacle? He seems to be too okay with his unchecked self. I believe this will end up being a huge payout for all parties that apply. What else would reportedly prevent them from going after each other?

 

[Gooddeeds]

“Police responding to the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history MAY HAVE witnessed gunman Stephen Paddock commit suicide inside his Las Vegas hotel room, newly unsealed documents indicate. The revelation contradicts previous police reports that the shooter was already dead when authorities arrived.

“As SWAT officers breached room 135, they observed Stephen Paddock place a gun to this head and fire one round,” one page of court documents released on Tuesday stated.

The account differs from that of Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department ****Sheriff Joe Lombardo, who has said numerous times that officers found 64-year-old Paddock dead of an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound when they breached his room at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino**** Moments earlier, Paddock had shot 58 people dead from his shattered hotel room window.”

Snipped from:
http://www.newsweek.com/police-may-...man-stephen-paddock-kill-himself-newly-796339

 

[watergirl62]

I have soooooooo much to say. But I have a busy day with real life work stuff, so I will be back late this evening.

I think we need to re-evaluate the entire narrative. How can we believe anything at this point?

I think the entire crime scene (32135 & 32134) was staged. That doesn’t necessarily mean nobody shot out of those windows and doesn’t necessarily mean it wasn’t Paddock. But for whatever reason, they staged the entire room to fit a certain narrative. JMO

LVMPD got caught with their pants down for sure on the day it all went down. Lombardo is a tool, but he and his puppeteers have no monopoly on corruption.

There is obviously some staging and subterfuge here, but I'm not one to declare all I have learned so far null and void because there are parts of this that smell hinky as *advertiser censored**. I am also eager for the truth. A huge part of the challenge is waiting for it.[emoji111]

 

[CARIIS]

I think a firearm that is near the suspect (even if deceased) would be immediately secured. At a minimum it would need to be cleared. A locked and loaded AR laying under a body is pretty dangerous. They can document it as having been under his legs. However, I do find the positioning of his body to be a bit odd.

If they documented it why place it on a tripod looking like it was smiling for a pic!!!

 

[kittythehare]

More from link:
The coroner also confirmed that 1 October shooter Stephen Paddock killed himself but autopsy results may provide a glimpse into the motive behind his senseless actions.

Today, Judge Timothy Williams will hear arguments for and against releasing the coroner documents. Depending on his decision, documents may be released as soon as this week.


[emoji146] Kittythehare, thanks for working so hard to bring us all the reports, conflicting or not. [emoji146]

I'm very curious what that glimpse into motive alluded to by the coroner might be and what component of the autopsy might reveal that glimpse. Toxicology? Brain physiology/ neurology? I am eagerly awaiting that report.

we discussed that a lot in early threads and argued much too..the possibilties of him having a brain lesion that brought about personality changes.. the various psychiatric diseases he might have etc..

Then the headlines came
'Paddock's brain was normal'
Brains are like jelly, they break easy, bleed easy and rupture easy, specially if one eats or is forced to eat a bullet or two..

I'd be more interested in forensic analysis from a qualified independent medic of bullet track, likliehood of it being self induced and any and all surrounding factors including position they found him in, found gun in, blood type and quantity and exact ish time of death as well as ancillary injuries.
Even if it turns out he had a strange and rare pathology going on that made him secretive, withdrawn, dour and whatever accurate adjective is being used to describe him.. there is NO excuse for the behaviour of LE.
NO reason to withhold the fact that his death was allegedly witnessed.

If they shot him, they could have justified it.
Whereas terrorism was the most likely reason for his actions at the early stages it is unlikely they would have been reprimanded if the shot him in the head upon entry.

I believe the investigators will need to be investigated thoroughly and I have no idea whether that will happen or who will conduct such an investigation or even whether it is possible to do it with integrity.

when I think of that 60 minutes fiasco... I feel like becoming ill.

 

[PrairieWind]

If they documented it why place it on a tripod looking like it was smiling for a pic!!!

I just went back to look at the photo of the body and the weapon again, I realized I was missing something. The rifle on the bi-pod on top of his left leg is NOT the weapon that was under the body. There is still an AR under Paddock in the photo. I never noticed it before.

 

[Jax49]

I just went back to look at the photo of the body and the weapon again, I realized I was missing something. The rifle on the bi-pod on top of his left leg is NOT the weapon that was under the body. There is still an AR under Paddock in the photo. I never noticed it before.

Under his left hand?

 

[kittythehare]

I just went back to look at the photo of the body and the weapon again, I realized I was missing something. The rifle on the bi-pod on top of his left leg is NOT the weapon that was under the body. There is still an AR under Paddock in the photo. I never noticed it before.

Remember those photos were leaked..
Remember..
Why were they leaked?
Who leaked them?
It is possible the leaked photos were not the original photos..the photos taken immediately upon breach..
They did not know Paddock was not a fully fledged member of ISIS when they entered that room..
they had every reason to assume he was , in fact a terrorist because they would have been aware that ISIS threatened LV, as well as everywhere else..
They should have expected that he was wired to an explosive,
Generally they will strip the body immediately in these cases..
a bomb squad will be in attendance and body will be moved several times..

I'm interested in whether he was lying down, sitting or standing when he allegedly topped himself and whether his shot made any sound and whether this is recorded anywhere..?

Terrorists tend not to kill themselves.. they frequently make themselves look as though they are wearing an explosive vest so that the police will be forced to kill them rather than take them alive..
Not sure how much ambient light was in that room.. whether LE used torches, extra lighting etc?
But I am very sure there is no way those photos would have been leaked without the full consent of investigators.. and I cannot imagine the reason why..

 

[PrairieWind]

Under his left hand?

Yes. You can see the stock and by his side you can see the pistol grip.

 

[kittythehare]

Thoughts on the "injury" to the back of the calves, any thoughts? I seem to recall this being mentioned very early on after the shooting, or something about an injury. They only thing I could think of is perhaps when he shot himself he fell and landed on the one rifle. The report said one was found under his legs. I wouldn't think that would leave a noticeable wound, but who knows. I assume this rifle is the one seen on top of his legs in the photo. Why would they move it? Perhaps just to make sure it was unloaded and safe.

no idea re injury..
or whether it occurred post or ante mortem- autopsy should clarify that one..
i don't think i remember seeing an exact description of nature and size of it either..
my mind races to a torture scenario.. was he tied down for an extended period of time?
My mind immediately disregards my mind!

But... anything is possible.