NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #14

[laytonian]

Yes, but I don't think it's all that sinister really. If he thought this was a really important job opportunity that wasn't going to come again, I can see him justifying missing church for it. It appears this wasn't a common occurrence for him, so to me, it says this situation was *really* important, for whatever reason.

<snip>

...but it's so odd.

In my whole entire long long long life, I've never heard of a job appointment or interview at noon on a Sunday.

And if someone there was interviewing people, why only Steven?
They'd have had to have advertised broadly, to attract him -- and in a manner he could access.
Was he referred there by a personal contact?
I don't think his St George bishop would have "a job" for him two hours away. That's head-banging

I don't even see how such a job contact could have been made via the St George library computers (at least on the 11th or 12th).
He worked on the 11th, likely a late start after having driven 1100+ miles.
On the 12th, he was in Mesquite at 5:04pm.
The closest library branch, was 39 miles away.
It closes at 6pm on Fri and Sat.

I just think, if he ended up there on purpose, it was something personally important to him - rather than a job.

 

[laytonian]

Just a thought -- is there an LDS place of worship near where the car was found where SK might have gone for services? The phone is off for the next several hours, during the time services are normally held.

We re-looked at all of that a few weeks ago, and the closest we could find, was 12 miles away. MAP of all Henderson, NV LDS churches.

He didn't look dressed for church, at all. On a Sunday, a member of the priesthood would have worn a suit and tie.

ETA: One more LDS address popped up on the map: Map.

Still too far to walk and arrive on time, even if he had directions -- UNLESS he was walking to an address, to go to church with someone. But he still was inappropriately dressed, IMO.

 

[laytonian]

Yeah, those would all fit the body language. Or tucking something into the front of the folder.

I could also interpret those gestures as shame. Not wanting to be seen because he didn't want to be there.

....or, in the very slim possibility that it's not Steven on the video, the person lowered their head so they couldn't be recognized after parking the car?

 

[sbakker]

I'm not presumptuous enough to call my friend a liar when he describes his experience. He said both he and his family felt the church required them to cut ties, and I take him at his word that he felt that way. Of course another family and another congregation might have felt differently and behaved differently. Maybe things have changed in the years since my friend's experience. I don't know. I'm just saying that if Steven had personal issues relative to his religion, it might have influenced his behavior. As for instance choosing to leave because he was afraid he was going to be kicked out or rejected anyway.

I do not think you should call your friend a liar when he described his experience, but I am not a liar either. You must believe what you want, and since he is your friend, and you do not know me, I understand. Steven attended all church activities, went to the temple, that does not sound like someone who thinks they may be rejected. And the church would not reject him. They would counsel him, help him, and do things to make his life better. They just do not say bye-bye.

 

[carbuff]

That's right. It was a general conversation and either gsmith didn't ask or didn't remember (who would, after several years)? We asked. No one's keeping a secret; if anyone would tell if they knew, gsmith would be the one He had insights into Steven, that even Steven's family couldn't describe very well. It was a friendship that blossomed, IIRC, when they worked together and never involved SK's family until they met at the April 10th search.



We re-looked at all of that a few weeks ago, and the closest we could find, was 12 miles away. MAP of all Henderson, NV LDS churches.

He didn't look dressed for church, at all. On a Sunday, a member of the priesthood would have worn a suit and tie.

He'd also be late for 12:00 services. I was thinking that if he went to the house of someone he knew, he might have changed and joined them for services. Which, yes, would imply that he had been there before and left clothing there.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

<snip>

...but it's so odd.

In my whole entire long long long life, I've never heard of a job appointment or interview at noon on a Sunday.

And if someone there was interviewing people, why only Steven?
They'd have had to have advertised broadly, to attract him -- and in a manner he could access.
Was he referred there by a personal contact?
I don't think his St George bishop would have "a job" for him two hours away. That's head-banging

I don't even see how such a job contact could have been made via the St George library computers (at least on the 11th or 12th).
He worked on the 11th, likely a late start after having driven 1100+ miles.
On the 12th, he was in Mesquite at 5:04pm.
The closest library branch, was 39 miles away.
It closes at 6pm on Fri and Sat.

I just think, if he ended up there on purpose, it was something personally important to him - rather than a job.

No, I agree with you, it's very odd! I can only imagine that someone desperate would have been willing to ignore any red flags in order to get the job (if that's what it really was).

Could this "job" opportunity been set up before he went on his driving spree?

 

[carbuff]

I do not think you should call your friend a liar when he described his experience, but I am not a liar either. You must believe what you want, and since he is your friend, and you do not know me, I understand. Steven attended all church activities, went to the temple, that does not sound like someone who thinks they may be rejected. And the church would not reject him. They would counsel him, help him, and do things to make his life better. They just do not say bye-bye.

I understand that's not what would happen in the part of the church you know. But as you pointed out, a church is a complex and multi-faceted organization. Things do happen.

Steven sounds like a very private person whose religious beliefs and circle were extremely important to him. Sometimes that kind of person finds it difficult to talk about doubts, conflicts, uncertainties. If he had run into instances where someone was not accepted or an individual in a position of power in the church was perhaps misusing that power, it seems like he might have felt like he didn't have a lot of places to turn.

 

[laytonian]

He'd also be late for 12:00 services. I was thinking that if he went to the house of someone he knew, he might have changed and joined them for services. Which, yes, would imply that he had been there before and left clothing there.

....and services could have begun at 1pm; that's when they began in St George (at the exact time Steven got out of his car).

Because more than one ward meets in a building, the meetings are held sequentially. Last time we talked about this, one of our LDS members talked about how there was a system to rotate the meeting schedule on a regular basis, among the various wards.

To me, IF this was an appointment, it makes more sense for it to have been personal rather than business.

If I were investigating, I'd be wondering who left the St George ward to move to the Vegas area .... and maybe even find out if they initially lived in the SLC/Bountiful area. And if any contact by SK was welcome or not.

OR...who in St George had reason to travel to the Vegas area, and if they had contacts in SCA.

 

[carbuff]

We re-looked at all of that a few weeks ago, and the closest we could find, was 12 miles away. MAP of all Henderson, NV LDS churches.

He didn't look dressed for church, at all. On a Sunday, a member of the priesthood would have worn a suit and tie.

ETA: One more LDS address popped up on the map: Map.

Still too far to walk and arrive on time, even if he had directions -- UNLESS he was walking to an address, to go to church with someone. But he still was inappropriately dressed, IMO.

I agree, the clothes he's wearing in the video would be pretty casual clothing even for a Protestant church around here. He'd have had to have a place to change.

I gather from the location of the LDS churches that this part of Henderson is predominantly not Mormon? I expected something closer, somehow.

I guess the church aspect doesn't really fit, but the job aspect just doesn't work for me, either.

 

[laytonian]

No, I agree with you, it's very odd! I can only imagine that someone desperate would have been willing to ignore any red flags in order to get the job (if that's what it really was).

Could this "job" opportunity been set up before he went on his driving spree?

Certainly; in fact, there's one of those :woohoo: screaming at us

From the first, it seemed like he was making deliveries ... and it started around the time the debt pressure increased.

The only thing that bugs me, is why would he disappear? Even IF he suspected he was involved in something iffy, he'd agreed to do it and would have known it would help straighten out that debt.

After a couple of those errands (Thursday and Saturday), perhaps he was asked to drive someone else's vehicle to an out of state destination -- from which he didn't return (either on his own accord or not)???? That would explain parking somewhere private for a few days.

 

[carbuff]

Certainly; in fact, there's one of those :woohoo: screaming at us

From the first, it seemed like he was making deliveries ... and it started around the time the debt pressure increased.

The only thing that bugs me, is why would he disappear? Even IF he suspected he was involved in something iffy, he'd agreed to do it and would have known it would help straighten out that debt.

After a couple of those errands (Thursday and Saturday), perhaps he was asked to drive someone else's vehicle to an out of state destination -- from which he didn't return (either on his own accord or not)???? That would explain parking somewhere private for a few days.

That would make most everything fit.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

Certainly; in fact, there's one of those :woohoo: screaming at us

From the first, it seemed like he was making deliveries ... and it started around the time the debt pressure increased.

The only thing that bugs me, is why would he disappear? Even IF he suspected he was involved in something iffy, he'd agreed to do it and would have known it would help straighten out that debt.

After a couple of those errands (Thursday and Saturday), perhaps he was asked to drive someone else's vehicle to an out of state destination -- from which he didn't return (either on his own accord or not)???? That would explain parking somewhere private for a few days.

Just brainstorming here. . .Assuming this is all connected and it's about the delivery of something illegal, like drugs, maybe he was lied to and taken advantage of. Maybe they told him, drop off these packages at all these different locations and then, on Sunday, go to this address and you'll receive a big payment. But then, maybe there was no payment and a bad guy just offed him instead to avoid paying and avoid SK being able to identify him or the operation.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

I'm sorry, but HUH?



This is what I said: "So, your theory is......? That they're hiding whatever happened, that would resolve the case?"

To me, knowing is very different than what's in the heart, and I replied to the part about "knowing".

It's more or less a feeling or maybe personal revelation is a better way to describe what I am suggesting, but I don't believe they are hiding anything. I don't believe they have anything tangible that we could touch or see...but maybe the feelings or revelations have led them to stop searching in fear of what they will find or maybe even know they won't find.

For me, if this wasn't a possibility, (that they have all the information and have come to some type of revelation that has caused them to go on with their lives and accept Steven not being here) then what you are suggesting is that if we had the same information the PI, police and family has, the posters on here might be able to solve the crime. That all those people have the information and just aren't putting it together? (If this is your feeling, I am not knocking it, I just want to understand the current focus.)

If there has been no crime in the eyes of LE, then why would LE tell the family to hold back information or not release it themselves? (Does there need to be a media request or some other type of request to get this information?) And if the family didn't have a feeling, why not release the information to anyone willing to help find their son? Again, even negative attention, is attention.

 

[laytonian]

Just brainstorming here. . .Assuming this is all connected and it's about the delivery of something illegal, like drugs, maybe he was lied to and taken advantage of. Maybe they told him, drop off these packages at all these different locations and then, on Sunday, go to this address and you'll receive a big payment. But then, maybe there was no payment and a bad guy just offed him instead to avoid paying and avoid SK being able to identify him or the operation.

I think most here would agree that IF criminal activity is involved, this is a darned good scenario. The last trip to Vegas, may have involved sending him somewhere ... from which he didn't return.

I don't even think anyone in SCA is involved. I think he'd have met someone there, and was taken elsewhere.

 

[sbakker]

I understand that's not what would happen in the part of the church you know. But as you pointed out, a church is a complex and multi-faceted organization. Things do happen.

Steven sounds like a very private person whose religious beliefs and circle were extremely important to him. Sometimes that kind of person finds it difficult to talk about doubts, conflicts, uncertainties. If he had run into instances where someone was not accepted or an individual in a position of power in the church was perhaps misusing that power, it seems like he might have felt like he didn't have a lot of places to turn.

Okay.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

OR...who in St George had reason to travel to the Vegas area, and if they had contacts in SCA.

Wouldn't this description fit GW?

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

Just brainstorming here. . .Assuming this is all connected and it's about the delivery of something illegal, like drugs, maybe he was lied to and taken advantage of. Maybe they told him, drop off these packages at all these different locations and then, on Sunday, go to this address and you'll receive a big payment. But then, maybe there was no payment and a bad guy just offed him instead to avoid paying and avoid SK being able to identify him or the operation.

Seems possible on the surface...just doesn't seem possible that it was all set-up without anyone knowing or being able to find anything. If all the driving before the event of him disappearing did not include the visit in Ruby, then this would seem more plausible. But since the visit included a fairly decent visit, by someone not in a hurry to get a job done, it's harder to believe that he was killed instead of getting paid. The driving (and visit to Ruby) needs to be a part of the explanation in my mind.

 

[laytonian]

Seems possible on the surface...just doesn't seem possible that it was all set-up without anyone knowing or being able to find anything. If all the driving before the event of him disappearing did not include the visit in Ruby, then this would seem more plausible. But since the visit included a fairly decent visit, by someone not in a hurry to get a job done, it's harder to believe that he was killed instead of getting paid. The driving (and visit to Ruby) needs to be a part of the explanation in my mind.

We know he mentioned "Sacramento" to the Ruby Valley family, and that they told him a storm was coming in.

What if he really was supposed to take something to the Sacramento area, but the idea of driving over Donner Pass in a snowstorm caused him to return home without finishing whatever he was supposed to do?

In that case, the Ruby Valley visit could have been spur of the moment, due to him seeing "Ruby Valley" on the freeway exit sign.

 

[laytonian]

I think most here would agree that IF criminal activity is involved, this is a darned good scenario. The last trip to Vegas, may have involved sending him somewhere ... from which he didn't return.

I don't even think anyone in SCA is involved. I think he'd have met someone there, and was taken elsewhere.

Wouldn't this description fit GW?

I don't see how.
GW says he was back in St George at noon (that's MST) for the regular church service; Steven started walking down Savannah Springs at noon (PST). So GW was back in St George an hour before we see Steven on the security video.

Since that places him in a crowd of worshippers (ie, witnesses), I think he'd have to have a better story if that were untrue.

You can help here:
Are there records kept of these meetings, and wouldn't GW (holding a President position) be noted as in attendance or not?

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

Seems possible on the surface...just doesn't seem possible that it was all set-up without anyone knowing or being able to find anything. If all the driving before the event of him disappearing did not include the visit in Ruby, then this would seem more plausible. But since the visit included a fairly decent visit, by someone not in a hurry to get a job done, it's harder to believe that he was killed instead of getting paid. The driving (and visit to Ruby) needs to be a part of the explanation in my mind.

Yeah, I'm not married to the idea. I still kind of wonder if the driving was part of some mental anguish/manic phase, but this is all just supposition.