NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #14

[jmarple]

I am not here to defend the mormon church, but I will speak up when untruths are talked about. I do not proclaim to be a church scholar, but on the other hand, I will speak up when I feel something is a untruth.

Same here.:twocents:

 

[rd_jfc]

laytonian wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rd_jfc
They couldn't reach him, Ruby, were owed three months rent, other renter had moved out and they were trying to determine if he had left too.

Ultimately they came to the house Monday night and checked for themselves after getting no answer to numerous calls.

rd

According to the landlady, they stopped at the house because they were on their way home from somewhere else; they didn't make a special trip.

The peek into the room was in the morning (SL said it was likely on the 14th).
end quote

hi laytonian, I looked at your timeline to confirm my memory of phone calls placed before and after SK dropped by his apartment for last time. Didn't see phone call info there but saw again entry that LL's stayed at house overnight on 14th. Was there some other house you are referring to there? I didn't think my mind was going that badly to dream that up and fortunately it isn't.

But concerning the phone calls I was confirming IIRC, based on latest posts explaining things as far as I can tell these would be the last two phone calls he placed, at the last time and place he was seen before walking away from his car. Normally this would be extremely critical insight into his activities prior to disappearing, but I can't recall that these phone calls have been identified. I have asked at least twice in last two weeks and no response.

No matter how banal the target of the calls, surely coming before and after his visit to his apartment for last time says something about his thought process. Have the calls been identified and I missed it?

rd

 

[sbakker]

Just brainstorming here. . .Assuming this is all connected and it's about the delivery of something illegal, like drugs, maybe he was lied to and taken advantage of. Maybe they told him, drop off these packages at all these different locations and then, on Sunday, go to this address and you'll receive a big payment. But then, maybe there was no payment and a bad guy just offed him instead to avoid paying and avoid SK being able to identify him or the operation.

This is one of the things my husband and I thought happened, from the beginning. It is something I still strongly believe. After talking to someone in law enforcement telling us about cases similar. I do not think sk thought he was doing anything illegal. He was delivering goods for someone. Maybe sk thought something was fishy, or the people he was working for thought he knew something and got rid of him. I believe the person he was working form, was probably from St. George.

 

[grayjay]

This is one of the things my husband and I thought happened, from the beginning. It is something I still strongly believe. After talking to someone in law enforcement telling us about cases similar. I do not think sk thought he was doing anything illegal. He was delivering goods for someone. Maybe sk thought something was fishy, or the people he was working for thought he knew something and got rid of him. I believe the person he was working form, was probably from St. George.

SK may have seemed too clean cut, or he may have indicated his morals wouldn't let him do something. I also would think in a scenario like this, business and personal are getting mixed together, even if the personal is simply assuming a friendship must be reinforced with a Sunday lunch.

 

[laytonian]

Quote:

They couldn't reach him, Ruby, were owed three months rent, other renter had moved out and they were trying to determine if he had left too.

Ultimately they came to the house Monday night and checked for themselves after getting no answer to numerous calls.

rd

According to the landlady, they stopped at the house because they were on their way home from somewhere else; they didn't make a special trip.

The peek into the room was in the morning (SL said it was likely on the 14th).

hi laytonian, I looked at your timeline to confirm my memory of phone calls placed before and after SK dropped by his apartment for last time. Didn't see phone call info there but saw again entry that LL's stayed at house overnight on 14th. Was there some other house you are referring to there? I didn't think my mind was going that badly to dream that up and fortunately it isn't.

Apparently, my mind is a mixmaster this morning; I'm not sure what the question is. The LL's wife is referring to the home that Steven lived in, that he rented from them. The only discrepancy I see, is where I said "morning". IIRC, she mentioned that elsewhere -- but since I can't find it right now, let's just drop the word "morning".

This is part of what she said. The entire WS post is linked on the timeline:
"The second time I peeked into his room was just before he went missing. We stayed at the house overnight and I think it was the Monday of the 14th."

"....just before he went missing" is confusing to me, just maybe because we know he was last heard from on Dec 13th. But it's HER statement, not mine.

She's not saying "night of". She's saying they were there on Dec 14th, before he disappeared. (I wish she'd have given an arrival date/time or something....)

But concerning the phone calls I was confirming IIRC, based on latest posts explaining things as far as I can tell these would be the last two phone calls he placed, at the last time and place he was seen before walking away from his car.

Normally this would be extremely critical insight into his activities prior to disappearing, but I can't recall that these phone calls have been identified. I have asked at least twice in last two weeks and no response.

No matter how banal the target of the calls, surely coming before and after his visit to his apartment for last time says something about his thought process. Have the calls been identified and I missed it?

rd

He really wasn't calling out, as we've discussed. Calls came in, and he sometimes answered.

His last two outgoing calls before he pulled out of the driveway on Dec 12th: Two calls to the parent of the two latchkey kids (and that was on Dec 11th about 3pm, as stated on the timeline).

 

[laytonian]

This is one of the things my husband and I thought happened, from the beginning. It is something I still strongly believe. After talking to someone in law enforcement telling us about cases similar. I do not think sk thought he was doing anything illegal. He was delivering goods for someone. Maybe sk thought something was fishy, or the people he was working for thought he knew something and got rid of him. I believe the person he was working form, was probably from St. George.

I agree; it's the thing that makes sense, and fits his movements. Wherever he drove to on that last week, he came back to St George. Except for the last time.

 

[laytonian]

SK may have seemed too clean cut, or he may have indicated his morals wouldn't let him do something. I also would think in a scenario like this, business and personal are getting mixed together, even if the personal is simply assuming a friendship must be reinforced with a Sunday lunch.

If skbakker and I are thinking in the same direction, this wasn't a friendship. It may have been a bit adversarial, because money was involved.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

I agree; it's the thing that makes sense, and fits his movements. Wherever he drove to on that last week, he came back to St George. Except for the last time.

If skbakker and I are thinking in the same direction, this wasn't a friendship. It may have been a bit adversarial, because money was involved.

Working with the delivery scenario. . .Where is the contact person that set this all up? Where and how did SK meet the person?

Did SK ever go to the employment office in St. George? Maybe some shady type was hanging around preying on desperate people there? What others ways might a stranger with drug ties get to know Steven? A friend of the roommate? Someone at the library?

 

[rd_jfc]

Apparently, my mind is a mixmaster this morning; I'm not sure what the question is. The LL's wife is referring to the home that Steven lived in, that he rented from them. The only discrepancy I see, is where I said "morning". IIRC, she mentioned that elsewhere -- but since I can't find it right now, let's just drop the word "morning".

This is part of what she said. The entire WS post is linked on the timeline:
"The second time I peeked into his room was just before he went missing. We stayed at the house overnight and I think it was the Monday of the 14th."

"....just before he went missing" is confusing to me, just maybe because we know he was last heard from on Dec 13th. But it's HER statement, not mine.

She's not saying "night of". She's saying they were there on Dec 14th, before he disappeared. (I wish she'd have given an arrival date/time or something....)



He really wasn't calling out, as we've discussed. Calls came in, and he sometimes answered.

His last two outgoing calls before he pulled out of the driveway on Dec 12th: Two calls to the parent of the two latchkey kids (and that was on Dec 11th about 3pm, as stated on the timeline).

yes, it is confusing, and it'd be real helpful to get a more specific time and date from LL. Given they started calling Sunday evening and throughout Monday and beyond could be Sunday night they stayed.

But you specifically corrected me when I said they came and stayed overnight, saying they were passing through and checked in morning. So I saw what I based my statement on and responded.

Ok, that's interesting. He received calls around time he entered and left his apartment? How much of a coincidence could that be? And so the question remains, have those calls been identified? If not, how can someone determine they are not relevant when they coincide with him dropping in and dropping out for last time?

rd

 

[laytonian]

yes, it is confusing, and it'd be real helpful to get a more specific time and date from LL. Given they started calling Sunday evening

(snip)

The calls started long before then.

LL's wife said he was calling from the first of the month.

(My own thought is that they'd been calling even longer than that)

and throughout Monday and beyond could be Sunday night they stayed.
But you specifically corrected me when I said they came and stayed overnight, saying they were passing through and checked in morning. So I saw what I based my statement on and responded.

I understood your post as saying they'd made a special trip to check on him.

All I clarified was that they stayed there while on there way back from
somewhere else.

Ok, that's interesting. He received calls around time he entered and left his apartment? How much of a coincidence could that be?

Where are you getting that from? Not from anything I said.

And so the question remains, have those calls been identified? If not, how can someone determine they are not relevant when they coincide with him dropping in and dropping out for last time?

rd

The question will remain, because there are no such calls.

No one can answer questions about something that does not exist.

 

[laytonian]

Working with the delivery scenario. . .Where is the contact person that set this all up? Where and how did SK meet the person?

Did SK ever go to the employment office in St. George? Maybe some shady type was hanging around preying on desperate people there? What others ways might a stranger with drug ties get to know Steven? A friend of the roommate? Someone at the library?

A shady stranger?

How about a face-to-face conversation with an acquaintance who has a drug record?

 

[carbuff]

Apparently, my mind is a mixmaster this morning; I'm not sure what the question is. The LL's wife is referring to the home that Steven lived in, that he rented from them. The only discrepancy I see, is where I said "morning". IIRC, she mentioned that elsewhere -- but since I can't find it right now, let's just drop the word "morning".

This is part of what she said. The entire WS post is linked on the timeline:
"The second time I peeked into his room was just before he went missing. We stayed at the house overnight and I think it was the Monday of the 14th."

"....just before he went missing" is confusing to me, just maybe because we know he was last heard from on Dec 13th. But it's HER statement, not mine.

She's not saying "night of". She's saying they were there on Dec 14th, before he disappeared. (I wish she'd have given an arrival date/time or something....)

It sounds to me like she meant "before we knew he was missing"?

 

[carbuff]

This is one of the things my husband and I thought happened, from the beginning. It is something I still strongly believe. After talking to someone in law enforcement telling us about cases similar. I do not think sk thought he was doing anything illegal. He was delivering goods for someone. Maybe sk thought something was fishy, or the people he was working for thought he knew something and got rid of him. I believe the person he was working form, was probably from St. George.

I have wondered before and will wonder again: what about delivering "imported" prescription meds? A lot of people consider that only mildly illegal, almost civil disobedience.

Whatever it was, I wonder whether he was just doing it until he felt like he had enough money saved up to let him make his break. Made his last delivery, collected his payment, and walked.

 

[laytonian]

I have wondered before and will wonder again: what about delivering "imported" prescription meds? A lot of people consider that only mildly illegal, almost civil disobedience.

Whatever it was, I wonder whether he was just doing it until he felt like he had enough money saved up to let him make his break. Made his last delivery, collected his payment, and walked.

It could be; it was you that found the link to the guys arrested in Cedar City just before they delivered to the WalMart pharmacy a few months ago -- right?

It could be anything "iffy", IMO. "Imported" drugs brought across the border, then broken down and delivered to a pharmacy OR sold off (Vicodin, etc). Illegal drugs produced here or brought across.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

A shady stranger?

How about a face-to-face conversation with an acquaintance who has a drug record?

Sure, but who? He didn't seem to have many friends, though he had many acquaintances at church. I know some have speculated on GW, right? I know nothing about him, though, and it seems no one has had any luck getting more information. What about a friend of the roommate's (who had a drug habit, right?)

 

[laytonian]

Sure, but who? He didn't seem to have many friends, though he had many acquaintances at church. I know some have speculated on GW, right? I know nothing about him, though, and it seems no one has had any luck getting more information. What about a friend of the roommate's (who had a drug habit, right?)

I believe there are possibilities outside the realm of names that have been frequently discussed.

 

[RubyRed]

It could be; it was you that found the link to the guys arrested in Cedar City just before they delivered to the WalMart pharmacy a few months ago -- right?

It could be anything "iffy", IMO. "Imported" drugs brought across the border, then broken down and delivered to a pharmacy OR sold off (Vicodin, etc). Illegal drugs produced here or brought across.

I remember when we were talking about some type of semi legit job, like the WalMart bust. I still think it is something similar.

 

[laytonian]

I remember when we were talking about some type of semi legit job, like the WalMart bust. I still think it is something similar.

Me, too (with my typical caveat "IF this is a crime").

But I see this as a more individually-based, non-cartel kind of thing.

 

[Fairy1]

I can get on board with this "delivery of whatever" theory - except for one minor detail.

If Steven was doing something for which he expected to be paid shortly, why would he purchase the inexpensive Christmas gifts for his family on the 12th? He didn't have much money (or so it would seem) and time-wise could easily have waited.

 

[laytonian]

I can get on board with this "delivery of whatever" theory - except for one minor detail.

If Steven was doing something for which he expected to be paid shortly, why would he purchase the inexpensive Christmas gifts for his family on the 12th? He didn't have much money (or so it would seem) and time-wise could easily have waited.

I know lots of family who exchange "dollar gifts", give a plate of cookies, or a jar of homemade jelly to their married siblings and their families.
We know they drew names, which simplifies things and eases the expense.

...and if he was planning to skip out and create a new life elsewhere, it was good planning on his part. It would probably have been more suspicious, if he'd spent a lot.