NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #17

[Kelly_Robinson]

I'm so glad to see the most loyal of Steven's followers are still here contributing to the search. Thank you. Frankly, I have been stumped for the past few months and have had nothing to add.

I haven't ruled out suicide. I can see both sides of the fence, though, on this issue. Granted, we don't know for sure if Steven was suffering from depression, but some of his behaviors in weeks prior to his disappearance suggest something was off. And per one of his friends, he had been prescribed (or using without prescription) some type of medicine in the past. The gifts for his brother could have meant he intended to be around for Christmas, but they also could have been a goodbye. (Also, it was the family that came to the conclusion the gifts were for his brother - we have no way to independently verify that Steven bought these gifts with his family in mind. Although, the bib seems to fit, the ornaments could have been for anyone) The trip to Ruby Valley, spontaneous and unplanned, seems almost manic, suggesting bipolar depression. And his final cry for help could have been telling GW he was in Vegas. ANYONE with a brain should have/would have asked "Why are you in Vegas" giving Steven a chance to open up about his feelings, predicament, whatever. But the one person who called, who had the opportunity to ask, failed Steven. Most people who commit suicide are looking for an excuse not to go through with it. I think at least some of us agree that Steven wasn't attempting to hide his trail...and I believe that has something to do with the fact that he wanted to be followed, pursued, or to be talked out of it. Hence checking his voicemail....Steven was hoping someone would call (besides his employer or landlord) who would care enough to ask what he was doing and tell him he had other options. I realize it's odd that his body hasn't been found, but Steven had 20 hours to find somewhere to go off the beaten path. And a day on WS makes it clear that no matter where a person goes missing or is murdered, finding a body is never guaranteed; no matter how much or how little information is obtained by LE and no matter how much is known about their last days, last hours or last moments.

I guess the only problem with my theory is that damn file folder under his arm. Maybe it contains a final note to his family....

One other thing that slipped my mind when you made the comment that you thought that Steven's driving around could be a symptom of mania.

That would actually be a good thing if that was true. When people are manic, they generally feel on top of the world to the point of being delusional. Its not the mania that brings about the suicide it's when they crash and get depressed. A person can stay manic for days or even weeks.

Mania is easy to tell. Was Steven up all hours of the night?
Was he delusional or really euphoric? In other words did he feel like he could take on the world or think he was going to work for a company or start a company that would make him a million dollars in a short period of time?

Was he making foolish and ruinous decisions and blowing every last dime he had in wild investments? Did he appear to be presenting a personality that he thought was larger then life? Special communication with God, angels, saints?

Manic depression or "bipolar disorder" as it is now called is characterized with high highs, and low lows.

People with mania can stay up for days on end, work tons of hours without tiring, think they have everything figured out, can be paranoid and delusional thinking the mafia is chasing them and they can be violent too. They can have auditory hallucinations.

The key to mania is, that think that they can take on the world.


Suicidal ideation is generally not characteristic during the manic phase. Thoughts of suicide come about when the person comes down and becomes depressed.

Again I want to emphasize this is not a hard and fast rule as anything is possible. Mania is a symptom of an underlying mental illness and people who are manic definately need help because when they come down they will get very depressed.

Kelly

 

[Fairy1]

One other thing that slipped my mind when you made the comment that you thought that Steven's driving around could be a symptom of mania.

That would actually be a good thing if that was true. When people are manic, they generally feel on top of the world to the point of being delusional. Its not the mania that brings about the suicide it's when they crash and get depressed. A person can stay manic for days or even weeks.

Mania is easy to tell. Was Steven up all hours of the night?
Was he delusional or really euphoric? In other words did he feel like he could take on the world or think he was going to work for a company or start a company that would make him a million dollars in a short period of time.
Was he making foolish and ruinous decisiond and blowing every last dime he had in wild investments? Did he appear to be presenting a personality that he thought was larger then life? Special communication with God, angels, saints?

People with mania can stay up for days on end, work tons of hours without tiring, think they have everything figured out, can be paranoid or violent. could have auditory hallucinations.

However the one thing that a manic thinks of is ending his life, at least when they are manic, they feel too "good."

Kelly

I'm certainly no expert, but I believe the same could be said of meth or other drug addicts.

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

Actually, the driving around prior to going missing is not the only red flag that points to a possible mental break or depression. There were other signs that could be interpreted as factors as well.

What I find most odd about all the driving is that, by all accounts, Steven had very little money. He was behind in his rent and, we have been told by those who knew him, desperately wanted to find a better job. Seems his time would have been better spent working or job hunting.

I resist the suicide theory simply because I feel he would have been found by now. And it doesn't make any sense for him to have come here for that -particularly if he wanted to remain hidden indefinitely. There are many, many areas near St. George where he could have accomplished that.

His driving around may have been the result of job hunting, his "Linked In" profile says at the top, "Las Vega Area," which means that he was interested in finding employment in the Vegas area.

I think the driving around could be indicative of looking for work or just a way to relax and blow off stress. I just wouldn't read that much into it.

Again that's just my opinion. Driving can be very relaxing to some people. Also didn''t the news say that a relative deposited a significant amount of money in his account to pay for the rent? He may have known that and realized the rent was not that big a problem anymore. The fact that the LL didn't give him a "quit or pay" notice may indicate that Steven knew that the LL was a softie and other then some phone calls, he may have known the LL wasn't really going to hastle him about the rent that much.

Kelly

 

[laytonian]

Was he making foolish and ruinous decisions

If quitting a job (before he had his next job) because of working nights, cold weather and/or worldly coworkers, yes.

and blowing every last dime he had in wild investments?

Don't know about investments, but he was 2-3 months behind on his rent when he did all that driving around (instead of working).
His grandmother had given him a check in October, but he didn't cash it.
His mother deposted money in his account to help with the rent, but he didn't use it.

Ignoring responsibilities? Yes.

Did he appear to be presenting a personality that he thought was larger then life?

A sports guy, "man's man" (as described by his brother), "doer of good deeds" (as described by his family), "good, decent guy" (described by coworkers).

Special communication with God, angels, saints?

That's why Latter Day Saints go to the Temple for sealings and other ordinances. It wouldn't be seen as "special" among that religion.

If you watch the "walking man" in the security videos, you see someone walking with purpose but also kinda slouched and head-down. To me, that's not a happy figure.

 

[Fairy1]

His driving around may have been the result of job hunting, his Linked In profile states at the top that "Las Vega Area" which means that was the areas that he was interested in finding a job.

I think the driving around could be indicative of looking for work or just a way to relax and blow off stress. I just wouldn't read that much into it.

Again that's just my opinion. Driving can be very relaxing to some people. Also didn''t the news say that a relative deposited a significant amount of money in his account to pay for the rent?

Kelly

I read a lot into the driving. There is no indication he was job hunting during his travels prior to going missing or in Las Vegas.

And no, it was not a significant amount of money and he was 3 months behind in rent when he did go missing.

We should not overlook the fact that Steven had moved away from his family and seems to have been cutting - or at least reducing - his ties to close friends prior to going missing.

 

[laytonian]

His driving around may have been the result of job hunting, his "Linked In" profile says at the top, "Las Vega Area," which means that he was interested in finding employment in the Vegas area.

For job purposes, LinkedIn considers St George as part of the "Las Vegas Area". I joined LinkedIn as a test, and they automatically assigned me to the "Salt Lake City area" - even though my town is not considered so.

I think the driving around could be indicative of looking for work

All he'd have seen, is barren landscape (outside of the metro SLC area and a few tiny towns in Nevada). Plus, most of his driving was in the dark.

If you look at the map of where he drove, there's no "there" there. No work. Plus, he didn't stop.

or just a way to relax and blow off stress. I just wouldn't read that much into it.

Again that's just my opinion. Driving can be very relaxing to some people. Also didn''t the news say that a relative deposited a significant amount of money in his account to pay for the rent? He may have known that and realized the rent was not that big a problem anymore. The fact that the LL didn't give him a "quit or pay" notice may indicate that Steven knew that the LL was a softie and other then some phone calls, he may have known the LL wasn't really going to hastle him about the rent that much.

Kelly

The landlord most certainly was hassling him, chasing him. Because he ignored the calls, the landlord called his parents (see the timeline).

Yes, his mother deposited money in a special account, for the rent and the landlord knew that.
But he didn't use it to pay the landlord. He didn't touch it.
And he still ignored the landlord's calls.

We've been discussing these very things for 10.5 months now. His mood, changes or disorders, illnesses?, drugs?, the houses on EL, why he did what he did, and when. As you can see, this is thread #17.

After all this time, we've pretty much circled the theories ten times, and come up empty-handed.

The easiest way to catch up, might be to go through all the timeline pages (including the links at the bottom of the first page to QA, theories, similar cases we found, etc, etc, etc)

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

I'm certainly no expert, but I believe the same could be said of meth or other drug addicts.

You may want to re-read my edited verson as I revised some of my comments.

I am not an expert on bipolar disorder myself. I only know some things about it because I have a sister who is bipolar, a friend who is a physican who became bipolar and a friend from school who suffered from it.

In all three cases there was no guess work. It was very clear that there was something seriously wrong. You may have not known the exact psychological diagnosis, but you knew something was very wrong in all three people. In the physician's case, I knew something was wrong with her because she become more and more irritable, to the point where I could barely stand being around her. She is someone who is a very close friend and when her illness manifested itself with mania it just about ruined my friendship with her. She is usually a very sweet person and everyone and anyone was avoiding her like the plague, thankfully she finally got help.

The person I knew from college who was bipolar;, it was obvious too with them because they were delusional and would talk to complete strangers saying that, "God told me to talk to you."

My sister, was very obvious because during her manic phase she was very paranoid. AGain my personal experience with this disorder is that there is very little guess work.
Kelly

 

[Fairy1]

You may want to re-read my edited verson as I revised some of my comments.

I am not an expert on bipolar disorder myself. I only know some things about it because I have a sister who is bipolar, a friend who is a physican who became bipolar and a friend from school who suffered from it.

In all three cases there was no guess work. It was very clear that there was something seriously wrong. You may have not known the exact psychological diagnosis, but you knew something was very wrong in all three people. In the physician's case, I knew something was wrong with her because she become more and more irritable, to the point where I could barely stand being around her. She is someone who is a very close friend and when her illness manifested itself with mania it just about ruined my friendship with her. She is usually a very sweet person and everyone and anyone was avoiding her like the plague, thankfully she finally got help.

The person I knew from college who was bipolar;, it was obvious too with them because they were delusional and would talk to complete strangers saying that, "God told me to talk to you."

My sister, was very obvious because during her manic phase she was very paranoid. AGain my personal experience with this disorder is that there is very little guess work.
Kelly

All perspectives are based, largely, on our own personal experiences or experience with other missing person's cases. That is what we all have to contribute on cases like Steven's. However, with Steven, we have also had the benefit of insight from his family and friends. All are pieces of the puzzle.

It's not really fair to base our opinions on news stories or gut feelings based on the fringes of a case. A lot of work has been done on Steven's case. Many here have gone above and beyond. Many theories have been presented and discussed. After 10 and a half months, it's all important, IMO. Fresh eyes are valuable and welcomed, but history and facts are important too.

IMOHO.

 

[Fairy1]

You may want to re-read my edited verson as I revised some of my comments.

I am not an expert on bipolar disorder myself. I only know some things about it because I have a sister who is bipolar, a friend who is a physican who became bipolar and a friend from school who suffered from it.

In all three cases there was no guess work. It was very clear that there was something seriously wrong. You may have not known the exact psychological diagnosis, but you knew something was very wrong in all three people. In the physician's case, I knew something was wrong with her because she become more and more irritable, to the point where I could barely stand being around her. She is someone who is a very close friend and when her illness manifested itself with mania it just about ruined my friendship with her. She is usually a very sweet person and everyone and anyone was avoiding her like the plague, thankfully she finally got help.

The person I knew from college who was bipolar;, it was obvious too with them because they were delusional and would talk to complete strangers saying that, "God told me to talk to you."

My sister, was very obvious because during her manic phase she was very paranoid. AGain my personal experience with this disorder is that there is very little guess work.
Kelly

I don't believe there was anyone in Steven's daily life who would have noticed any real changes in him leading up to when he went missing. I mean, he told one of the last people he spoke with that he was IN Las Vegas, but that person didn't either didn't care enough to ask why, knew why and hasn't revealed it or was too much of a dunce to give it another thought. That's not someone who would have noticed a significant change in behavior.

 

[SugarJames]

You may want to re-read my edited verson as I revised some of my comments.

I am not an expert on bipolar disorder myself. I only know some things about it because I have a sister who is bipolar, a friend who is a physican who became bipolar and a friend from school who suffered from it.

In all three cases there was no guess work. It was very clear that there was something seriously wrong. You may have not known the exact psychological diagnosis, but you knew something was very wrong in all three people. In the physician's case, I knew something was wrong with her because she become more and more irritable, to the point where I could barely stand being around her. She is someone who is a very close friend and when her illness manifested itself with mania it just about ruined my friendship with her. She is usually a very sweet person and everyone and anyone was avoiding her like the plague, thankfully she finally got help.

The person I knew from college who was bipolar;, it was obvious too with them because they were delusional and would talk to complete strangers saying that, "God told me to talk to you."

My sister, was very obvious because during her manic phase she was very paranoid. AGain my personal experience with this disorder is that there is very little guess work.
Kelly

I seriously doubt Steven was suffering from a mental disorder. Under a lot of stress yes but not anything remarkable...

 

[laytonian]

I don't believe there was anyone in Steven's daily life who would have noticed any real changes in him leading up to when he went missing. I mean, he told one of the last people he spoke with that he was IN Las Vegas, but that person didn't either didn't care enough to ask why, knew why and hasn't revealed it or was too much of a dunce to give it another thought. That's not someone who would have noticed a significant change in behavior.

ES (who sbakker has talked to frequently) noticed a distinct change in behavior; remember him talking about SK's anxiety while reading a lesson, and having to completely start over?

gsmith recalled SK being a bit "out of it" a few years ago, passing by the Beto's restaurant in Bountiful, parking far down the street, and walking back. They'd also had a conversation where SK reported he was "taking something" that made him "feel better" -- but gsmith didn't know what it was, or if it was prescribed. He also described Steven's halting speech, where he'd pause for awhile, then continue. Naegle confirmed that description.

I think sometimes, the closer you are to someone, the more you grow comfortable with their quirks. Family members might not even recognize them, because the person's always had the quirks. "It's just Steven."
When there's only strangers around, they may not be as accepting of the quirks.

I think Steven had church friends in St George, but no close or true friendships to lean on down there. He lived alone, and walked away on his own.

 

[Fairy1]

I seriously doubt Steven was suffering from a mental disorder. Under a lot of stress yes but not anything remarkable...

Well, we really don't know, do we? It's not something that can be dismissed, based on what we do know. IMO.

 

[Fairy1]

ES (who sbakker has talked to frequently) noticed a distinct change in behavior; remember him talking about SK's anxiety while reading a lesson, and having to completely start over?

gsmith recalled SK being a bit "out of it" a few years ago, passing by the Beto's restaurant in Bountiful, parking far down the street, and walking back. They'd also had a conversation where SK reported he was "taking something" that made him "feel better" -- but gsmith didn't know what it was, or if it was prescribed. He also described Steven's halting speech, where he'd pause for awhile, then continue. Naegle confirmed that description.

I think sometimes, the closer you are to someone, the more you grow comfortable with their quirks. Family members might not even recognize them, because the person's always had the quirks. "It's just Steven."
When there's only strangers around, they may not be as accepting of the quirks.

I think Steven had church friends in St George, but no close or true friendships to lean on down there. He lived alone, and walked away on his own.

Yes, but he was away from those who would have been accepting of his quirks and amongst people he had not known for long - who may have considered simple "quirks" as something more.

Steven's mother attributed his halting speech to adjusting to speaking English after speaking Portuguese while on his mission. At the age of 30, it had been a while.

 

[SugarJames]

Well, we really don't know, do we? It's not something that can be dismissed, based on what we do know. IMO.

I have allways said takes one to know one...think about that, think about Steven and his profile it really doesnt fit...Really he had problems but really?

 

[Kelly_Robinson]

Did your hunch pan out?
If not so far, when will you know?
When will you be able to tell us about it?

It's also valuable to rule things out, so it'd be good to know if your efforts turned up anything...or nothing.

No it amounted to nothing. I will explain it to you. Steven said that he was going to go to Sacramento right? Well when I took a look on the street Evening lights there is a psychologist who lives on Evening Lights, who has an office in Sacramento (no big thing), but then I noticed that the sales manager for matchbin's main office was stationed in Sacramento too. I just thought that there might be some connection somehow. The salesman who works for matchbin who is in Sacramento was sent out there six weeks ago as it states on their website.

Not really anything, I just thought that since Sacramento popped up twice with a resident on Evening Lights having a company there and a salesman from matchbin being stationed there, it might mean something but it was nothing. Just a coincidence, nothing more.

Kelly

 

[Fairy1]

I have allways said takes one to know one...think about that, think about Steven and his profile it really doesnt fit...Really he had problems but really?

Many, many things don't fit with what we do know. It's what we DON'T know that holds the answers.

Not for nothing, but lots and lots of people have stress and "problems." They don't disappear into thin air. I'm certainly in no position to diagnose a man I've never met personally. Are you?

 

[SugarJames]

If I were to find him someday I would shake his hand and walk away. I believe he is alive...and in the greater LV metro area. Portland is so far away...if I lived in that area I would spend all of my extra time in the next 3 months waiting and watching.

After researching Steven for the last 10 months or so I have to say I like him...Im not a man of religous conviction but I admire his. I see a man who has been held back by that conviction who is striking out to make it on his own. The same with the person he is doing it with. Only time will tell...

 

[laytonian]

No it amounted to nothing. I will explain it to you. Steven said that he was going to go to Sacramento right? Well when I took a look on the street Evening lights there is a psychologist who lives on Evening Lights, who has an office in Sacramento (no big thing), but then I noticed that the sales manager for matchbin's main office was stationed in Sacramento too. I just thought that there might be some connection somehow. The salesman who works for matchbin who is in Sacramento was sent out there six weeks ago as it states on their website.

Not really anything, I just thought that since Sacramento popped up twice with a resident on Evening Lights having a company there and a salesman from matchbin being stationed there, it might mean something but it was nothing. Just a coincidence, nothing more.

Kelly

We knew about the psychologist; if I'm remembering correctly, someone even found property records showing she owns property near where Steven stopped for a Taco Time meal, on his way back from Ruby Valley. That one went round and round for awhile.

Thanks.

 

[Fairy1]

I have allways said takes one to know one...think about that, think about Steven and his profile it really doesnt fit...Really he had problems but really?

Takes one what to know one what? Missing your point. And to what "profile" are you referring? Is there a profile on Steven?

 

[Fairy1]

After researching Steven for the last 10 months or so I have to say I like him...Im not a man of religous conviction but I admire his. I see a man who has been held back by that conviction who is striking out to make it on his own. The same with the person he is doing it with. Only time will tell...

So, are you saying a man who was held back by his religious conviction had enough gumption to get up, leave his family, friends and church and begin a brand new life with someone?

Just want to be sure I understand your POV.