NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #17

[Fairy1]

To profit. No one's going to aid and abet a felony (which insurance fraud would be) unless they got a cut of the action. BUT....because SK wouldn't have anything to give until *after* the insurance came through, the partner may have been angered and threatened to expose the scheme. Argument or other harm ensues.

Ahhhh - thank you. See, I was assuming this other person would have known - going in - that there would be no immediate profit. So, it wouldn't be to their benefit to harm Steven BEFORE the $$$ came in.

Absolutely. But IF something like this took place, I doubt it involved anyone we've heard about.

I'm inclined to agree with you here. BUT, there still had to have been an initial point of contact - most likely in St. George. There doesn't seem to be an electronic trail, but the beginning of the ball of yarn MUST be there......somewhere.

 

[laytonian]

Ahhhh - thank you. See, I was assuming this other person would have known - going in - that there would be no immediate profit. So, it wouldn't be to their benefit to harm Steven BEFORE the $$$ came in.

I see what you're saying, but in something like this (kinda spur of the moment), there may not have been much planning or agreement.
This is where I could see someone like Z involved, and we know there was a Z family living out by Russel & 95.

I'm inclined to agree with you here. BUT, there still had to have been an initial point of contact - most likely in St. George. There doesn't seem to be an electronic trail, but the beginning of the ball of yarn MUST be there......somewhere.

If we could figure out the contact, we could solve this - no matter what happened.
Unless there was no contact.

 

[Fairy1]

I see what you're saying, but in something like this (kinda spur of the moment), there may not have been much planning or agreement.
This is where I could see someone like Z involved, and we know there was a Z family living out by Russel & 95.

Z....yes. It would not have been a person who was "seasoned" in this type of crime. And most likely, someone who also needed $$$.

Russell & US 95 = Henderson. I don't think it's part of Whitney Ranch, but I'm not entirely sure. Will have to check that out.

If we could figure out the contact, we could solve this - no matter what happened.
Unless there was no contact.

There HAD to have been some kind of contact. Face to face - at the very least.

 

[RubyRed]

To profit. No one's going to aid and abet a felony (which insurance fraud would be) unless they got a cut of the action. BUT....because SK wouldn't have anything to give until *after* the insurance came through, the partner may have been angered and threatened to expose the scheme. Argument or other harm ensues.


Absolutely. But IF something like this took place, I doubt it involved anyone we've heard about.

We are talking about a 2003 Chevy Cavalier which would maybe be worth approx. $3,275. Then take into consideration whatever was owed on it. It would make more sense to drive it over a cliff so it was totally wrecked, not park it in a good neighborhood, where it is less likely to get stolen. I don't see much financial gain in this scenario, nor that he would be this naive and think he could just park it and walk away, and it would get stolen. I can think of many other places to leave a car if you want it stolen, for financial gain and it wouldn't be SCA.

 

[Fairy1]

We are talking about a 2003 Chevy Cavalier which would maybe be worth approx. $3,275. Then take into consideration whatever was owed on it. It would make more sense to drive it over a cliff so it was totally wrecked, not park it in a good neighborhood, where it is less likely to get stolen. I don't see much financial gain in this scenario, nor that he would be this naive and think he could just park it and walk away, and it would get stolen. I can think of many other places to leave a car if you want it stolen, for financial gain and it wouldn't be SCA.

I agree. There were 100's of other areas in Vegas - and probably some right in St. George - where it could have been "stolen." could have been determined with just a wee bit of research.

This theory just doesn't "feel" right to me at all. From Steven's side or any other.

So...........what else is there?

 

[Sin City]

Do you know for sure that the library removed them, or (on the bright side) maybe people did what we wanted them to do -- they took them until they were all gone?

ETA: I just had a strange thought.
If I were a missing person, and I saw those cards with my face on them, I'd make sure they "disappeared".
Any thoughts on that being our "target"???

A knee-jerk reaction from me for sure. I guess I should ask the librarians, while I'm there this week.

Maybe various folks did take them. The clear bins that were hanging on the wall were re-arranged, and the other materials re-arranged, so my first thought was that they were removed by the library.

The new location for this Henderson Library is at Lake Mead & Water St. The old library had been across the street from the court house in old town Henderson.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

Were there fliers found in the neighborhood where SK helped the girls? Maybe whatever he was doing in Henderson that day, was the same thing he was really doing when he helped those girls...and I don't think it was window washing. Are the calls around that time "similar" to calls on the day he went missing? Maybe the same kind of calls to VM.

My girlfriend told me her teenage daughter gave her boyfriend the number to her cellular voicemail service and he could leave his girlfriend messages on the voicemail without the parents knowing they were communicating. She only figured it out when she checked the messages herself. Very clever. It's actually similar to what I've thought SK may have been doing. This would eliminate calls showing up from another person, but would be able to leave a message for SK to check or visa versa. Which...would explain the call to VM on Monday. And the family wouldn't hear these messages if they were deleted.

 

[carbuff]

We are talking about a 2003 Chevy Cavalier which would maybe be worth approx. $3,275. Then take into consideration whatever was owed on it. It would make more sense to drive it over a cliff so it was totally wrecked, not park it in a good neighborhood, where it is less likely to get stolen. I don't see much financial gain in this scenario, nor that he would be this naive and think he could just park it and walk away, and it would get stolen. I can think of many other places to leave a car if you want it stolen, for financial gain and it wouldn't be SCA.

The point of this kind of scam is that the car *isn't* stolen. You drop it off somewhere where it's not going to be connected to you, and then you report it to the police in your area as stolen, and collect from your insurance company. You don't care what happens to it. And if it's found, well, it just goes down as a recovered stolen car.

One thing that fits: Steven walking away to meet a ride -- the other person wouldn't want to be seen near the drop point.

I don't have any trouble seeing Steven walking from Henderson to the place where the last cell phone pings came from. He's an active, outdoorsy type, seems to be wearing shoes you could walk in comfortably. I can see wanting it to be known he was in Las Vegas, too, in case somebody saw him.

I can see a scenario where he told a friend he'd need a ride home from Vegas, then when the friend found out he was helping out a crime, he lost his temper and slugged Steven. Steven falls, bangs head, dies from injury. Friend panics and dumps the body.

 

[laytonian]

Were there fliers found in the neighborhood where SK helped the girls? Maybe whatever he was doing in Henderson that day, was the same thing he was really doing when he helped those girls...and I don't think it was window washing. Are the calls around that time "similar" to calls on the day he went missing? Maybe the same kind of calls to VM.

According to a WSer who called TH, SK didn't wash windows. His only job was to pass out the flyers.

My girlfriend told me her teenage daughter gave her boyfriend the number to her cellular voicemail service and he could leave his girlfriend messages on the voicemail without the parents knowing they were communicating. She only figured it out when she checked the messages herself. Very clever. It's actually similar to what I've thought SK may have been doing. This would eliminate calls showing up from another person, but would be able to leave a message for SK to check or visa versa. Which...would explain the call to VM on Monday. And the family wouldn't hear these messages if they were deleted.

Help me understand that scheme.

There were texts and VMs sent to SK after the phone went dead, and which were retrieved.

So for this scheme to work, the callers using the "secret number" would have had to stop using it, at the time the phone went dead -- because texts and VMs that came in after that time, were retrieved.

 

[laytonian]

The point of this kind of scam is that the car *isn't* stolen. You drop it off somewhere where it's not going to be connected to you, and then you report it to the police in your area as stolen, and collect from your insurance company. You don't care what happens to it. And if it's found, well, it just goes down as a recovered stolen car.

One thing that fits: Steven walking away to meet a ride -- the other person wouldn't want to be seen near the drop point.

I don't have any trouble seeing Steven walking from Henderson to the place where the last cell phone pings came from. He's an active, outdoorsy type, seems to be wearing shoes you could walk in comfortably. I can see wanting it to be known he was in Las Vegas, too, in case somebody saw him.

I can see a scenario where he told a friend he'd need a ride home from Vegas, then when the friend found out he was helping out a crime, he lost his temper and slugged Steven. Steven falls, bangs head, dies from injury. Friend panics and dumps the body.

.....and the value of the car is the same, whether it's an unrecovered stolen car, or it's totalled.

Dropping cars off a cliff, around here, is a well-known scam that's investigated. A guy I used to work with, was so stupid that he did it twice - and obviously got caught on the second incident.

Stolen cars are taken for joy rides, then abandoned. They're seldom dropped off cliffs.

Of course there's holes in this type of scenario, but there's holes in all of them.

For all we know, the car was supposed to be picked up by someone else -- and wasn't (because someone forgot and took the keys with them).

 

[laytonian]

A knee-jerk reaction from me for sure. I guess I should ask the librarians, while I'm there this week.

Maybe various folks did take them. The clear bins that were hanging on the wall were re-arranged, and the other materials re-arranged, so my first thought was that they were removed by the library.

The new location for this Henderson Library is at Lake Mead & Water St. The old library had been across the street from the court house in old town Henderson.

I wish I could have sent the little boxes, but they were so flimsy, they weren't good for much (and wouldn't have held the cards on a bulletin board).

I hope I'm right about what happened....but you're more in touch, and yoru knee-jerk reaction is probably spot-on. Darn.

 

[RubyRed]

I agree. There were 100's of other areas in Vegas - and probably some right in St. George - where it could have been "stolen." could have been determined with just a wee bit of research.

This theory just doesn't "feel" right to me at all. From Steven's side or any other.

So...........what else is there?

It doesn't fit for me either. As for what else? We have been through so many scenarios some more than once.

 

[laytonian]

It doesn't fit for me either. As for what else? We have been through so many scenarios some more than once.

We keep eliminating "he wouldn't do that".

Well....he either got involved with a criminal element, walked away of his own accord, or harmed himself. All of those fall under "he wouldn't do that" .

 

[RubyRed]

There could be a criminal element but in my opinion it isn't the stolen car theory.

 

[laytonian]

There could be a criminal element but in my opinion it isn't the stolen car theory.

Not so much a stolen car, but a way to get rid of
something that **could be** repo'd quite soon.

My thought is that if his folks didn't know he was
about to lose his car, he could arrange a "theft"
scenario -- which no one would criticize him for.

I'm just trying to figure out some events that
seemed to occur right after some calls that were
(likely) from a collection agency.

 

[carbuff]

There could be a criminal element but in my opinion it isn't the stolen car theory.

It wouldn't be a stolen car, it would be insurance fraud.

 

[RubyRed]

Not so much a stolen car, but a way to get rid of
something that **could be** repo'd quite soon.

My thought is that if his folks didn't know he was
about to lose his car, he could arrange a "theft"
scenario -- which no one would criticize him for.

I'm just trying to figure out some events that
seemed to occur right after some calls that were
(likely) from a collection agency.

Well he was definitely under financial pressure. Maybe he did just snap and say screw it all.

 

[Fairy1]

Well he was definitely under financial pressure. Maybe he did just snap and say screw it all.

Yes, he was. I don't see him employing an illegal scheme to get out of it, but I can see him washing his hands of all things "worldly." Just based on what we "know."

 

[laytonian]

Well he was definitely under financial pressure. Maybe he did just snap and say screw it all.

The car wasn't worth a lot, but if he owed less than it was worth, he could actually have "earned" money from it....and caught up on other responsibilities.

It's probably a stupid idea, but when people are desperate, they do things that others would be surprised about.

 

[carbuff]

Yes, he was. I don't see him employing an illegal scheme to get out of it, but I can see him washing his hands of all things "worldly." Just based on what we "know."

I can see that too. Which is why I kept wondering whether there was a Mormon equivalent to a monastery or retreat center.