NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #21

[Weygand]

I am wondering if someone in the neighborhood, was gone from their home , and a son or grandson, or some other relative was staying at the home.
Long ago on here, I talked about a retired couple who lived in St. George, that were gone from their home for quite a while, and their grandson was using the home and commited a murder there.
The grandparents did not know he was staying in the home.

How did they know they murder was committed there then? Because the grandparents eventually came home and found blood where there previously was none before they left or because someone saw the victim enter the house or the victim's car was parked nearby and the victim and perp knew each other previously. Did the grandson know the person he killed or did he lure a complete stranger? That might be the case here, but I don't believe that's what happened. IMO.

Odds are until the story about the murder came out, unless the grandson had been expressly forbidden from entering the home, odds are no one thought it odd that the grandson would be house sitting while his grandparents were away.

 

[sbakker]

So I think you get my point which is

• 
  if someone was going to lure a stranger into a trap to murder them, odds are likely they aren't going to do it in a retirement community

• They certainly aren't going to do it in a retirement community in broad daylight and have them park away from the *trap* increasing the odds that the victim will be seen walking through the neighborhood entering the residence where the trap is sprung.

• And just leave his car there potentially bringing police around asking questions to where you lured the victim. Odds are they didn't know about the surveillance camera because if they did they wouldn't have had him park there

Not saying foul play didn't occur....just saying I don't think it occurred in SCA

/IMO OC

And why would it not happen in a retirement community? Like, do you think people are too old to commit murder there? Maybe it was mot premeditated murder.

What makes you think that the murder was there?

SK could have met someone there, and foul play happened elsewhere.

 

[Weygand]

And why would it not happen in a retirement community? Like, do you think people are too old to commit murder there? Maybe it was mot premeditated murder.

My point was, if you're going to go to the trouble of luring a stranger to murder them, you are probably smart enough to be discrete about it. At the very least, have him park in front of your place because there's less time for him to be seen walking into your house by anyone who happens by. Further based on the preceding principle, you probably aren't going to have leave their car there long enough for it to be called in as abandoned and towed.

I don't think old the people there are too old to commit murder. My grandfather was 96 and he could still fire a .44; the odds that he was lured there by a senior citizen to be murdered, IMO, are very, very, very slim.

If he was killed without premeditation, this a manslaughter. How likely is it that when going door to door he was accidentally killed in such a way that no one heard a gun or someone calling for help?

What makes you think that the murder was there?

How do you know SK has been murdered? Where did I say that Steven was murdered, let alone in SCA?

SK could have met someone there, and foul play happened elsewhere.

Which has been another of my points all along: if a murder happened, I don't think it happened in SCA. The steps leading up to the hypothetical foul play may have started there but, I doubt even that. I think it more likely that SCA was just a meeting point to go onto another destination whether it be his own choosing or he was lured elsewhere

 

[Sin City]

I'd like to think that it isn't possible that nobody in the SCA neighborhood saw SK walking, but unfortunately it is possible. I want to share a story with you all. This past summer a neighbor arrived home for lunch at 12:10. 15 min later the family called the police, & his wife called another neighbor to asked them if they knew who the man was laying face down in the street dirrectly in front of their home. Most of the neighbors knew who he was, as he lived at the end of the block. It was in the middle of the afternoon, on a hot summer day, and the kids were out of school. There are 5 stay at home moms near this area of the block, and most of us heard nothing. One of the neighbors heard their dogs barking up a storm in the backyard, and when she went to look over the back wall she saw nothing. The dead man's nephew had stabbed him in the middle of the street, ran through a vacant lot, dumped 3 bloody knives in the cinderblock wall of my girlfriends house (the home with the dogs), and ran down the alley. There was a blood trail from the body all the way down the block's alley. So, as one can see it is possible for something odd to occur in a neighborhood, and none of the neighbors witness anything. We were shocked as all get out that we didn't see either of these men until one lay in the street.

 

[hollyblue]

I was surprised at how little the Discovery show talked about GW. We didn't even get to see a picture. What if they were together the night before and someone had seen them? Think a little more about their relationship would have been helpful.

IMO, the ID show was a nothing but PR for a certain perspective. Many questions about his case, and with GW being one of them--- would be brought to light if people were truly inquisitive about SK's case did google his name and it brought them here. Most people would be hooked by the time they got to the 2nd thread. It gets pretty mundane after you get into the double digit threads, but there are things to be gleaned from it. No one is going to get the answer by way of WS, but there are clues to be had. JMO

 

[hollyblue]

It wuldnt have gone down there. U dont sh** in ur own hood. He aint there.

That's not always true A51. Most people will take care of business in their own comfort zone. imo

 

[hollyblue]

BBM

what? old bitties with silencers. i came from a bad part of town but i aint never seen no old geezers or bitties with silenced guns. what kind a hood is this sca place? why not bump off a girl scout when they come with them cookies?

Lookout A51, I was a girl scout....and know how to shoot too. LOL My eyes may not be a good as when I was a teen, but that's what they make shotguns for. Just sayin'

 

[fridaybaker]

A couple of thoughts here: Since SCA is an "age restricted" community, I think that it's easy to form a mental picture of almost a nursing home kind of clientele. I think, though, that the age restriction is actually only that ONE person living in the home must be 55 years of age or older. I know plenty of people who are 55 years old and are very young! Also, it would seem that an entire household of persons might be quite young except, of course, the "old geezer 55-year old'!

Also, most of the immediately previous posts here talk about odds and probablities. This is something that I've wondered about since the very beginning: On the one hand, it seems like it would be providential to understand what the odds are for several things: a "suicide" where one never finds the body; the likeliness of a "walkaway" w/ a situation like SK's -no note, tidyly leaving car where it would easily be found and towed, no obvious preparation, no computer trail, etc; the odds of a walkaway COMPLETELY disappearing w/o any activity recorded anywhere of him -no SS/cc hits, etc; the odds of foul play coming to someone just randomly, etc. -etc., etc., etc. I think that understanding the actual odds of these kinds of things would be very helpful.

However, on the other hand, it seems that there's are a certain level of probability of the improbable; hence, sooo much speculation on things that don't have any kind of real, evidentual link but are within the realm of possibility like transporting animals (even humans!!!) -driving cars for profit, "acting" and all kinds of equally odd possibilities, where he could have met w/ foul play.

Here is what I mean: Even though SK had some "issues" such as debt, career, still single, etc., there ARE people who place ads for people, even animals, w/ the intent of doing harm. Why? Motive? Who knows. Could be for the thrill of it. But it does happen. Why would SK be answering ads in the Henderson area? Well, I would think that a person might think that the job market, especially if he felt he HAD to get something, at least temporarily, that was beneath his education, like a service job, would be pretty good in a place like Las Vegas. Henderson, being very close to it, would probably have people advertising in LV. So, perhaps all of those things which we place so much importance on ARE important, just not to his disappearance. He's driving, he's mulling, whatever. Then, on Sunday, he's answering an ad that he saw online at the library or whatever, and he happens to be THE person, the one in many, many thousands, who answers the ad of a nefarious person who has nefarious designs. That person may or may not live at SCA but easily could. He could be 55 or not. Sixty-year-olds murder all the time. It's just not as usual as 20 year-olds.

Here, I think, is our problem: We have to look at both the "probable odds" as well as the odd things that just happen in life. It's quite possible that SK met with a fate that nothing -NOTHING- really points to. Okay, not sure where that takes us, but it's just something I think about. Odds and probabilities are good to think about, but COULD be a red herring! Eeek. This is a thoughie.

 

[Fairy1]

Certainly, odds and probabilities are the most logical way to approach it. The thing is, with Steven, we have learned a good deal about him through his friends and family. And when you toss in the facts (travel, phone calls, financial situation, church life, etc.) we do know, you have to look at everything in totality.

IMO, on the face of it, suicide would seem to be the most probable answer. But it has never made sense to me that he would travel to Henderson, NV to do it. Why? There are miles and miles of mountains and wilderness surrounding St. George. If he didn't want his family to discover him, he could easily have accomplished the same goal much closer to home.

I also never could believe that he was lured to a retirement community under false pretenses only to be killed by a stranger. And while I do believe he was in SCA for a specific purpose, I don't think it was for any kind of job interview.

I do believe that whatever led to Steven's disappearance began in St. George, Utah and was also tied to his seemingly manic travels prior to going missing.

Steven didn't live in a vacuum. He was very involved with his church, he was employed (such as it was), he had regular interactions with others and was in touch with his family.

With the exception of the call to the parents of the little girls who were locked out of their house, the phone records didn't reveal calls to or from anyone unknown to Steven. So.......

 

[OldSteve]

Speaking of odds - that's tricky.... what are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet, someone always seems to...
So in looking at the odds of various scenarios - Steven could be that one exception...

 

[AlexLouise44]

Hey everyone,
my friend continues to put posters up for me. He has gone to several churches and still no sign of Steven. We are both hopeful that maybe someone at the churches will notice Steven. At all the churches he has visited the people in charge have said not to put posters up just in case he is in hiding for a reason and we don't want to scare Steven off. I am very happy that each church my friend has visited have taken the time to meet with him and talk about Steven. He is also still visiting the homeless shelters frequently. Yesterday my friend also went all over town (including Henderson - where my he actually lives anyway) checking out all the places he once went when he was homeless. He said no reported signs of Steven at all. He asked around and such. He will continue to do this for me about once a week. I figured I would update you on how that was going. I hope we find Steven, I really do. Thanks guys, have a wonderful week

 

[Mariah]

All phone calls were to people he knew....most people who are murdered are murdered by people they know...

 

[sbakker]

All phone calls were to people he knew....most people who are murdered are murdered by people they know...

So....does anyone want to discuss the people that SK knew in St. George? Any of the "newbies" on here, have any thoughts on any particular person we might discuss?

 

[SassyBenton]

The only friends I’ve heard of Steven having in St. George were the ones in his church group, GW being the only name I’ve ever specifically heard mentioned. Does anyone know where the names of the other group members can be found? I don’t recall ever seeing them.

 

[SassyBenton]

I was doing a Google search for crime in SCA and found this link in an article. You can put in two cross streets and it will list crimes in that area up to one mile. Pretty nifty tool. I did a search on Savannah Springs Ave and Evening Lights Street. Mostly burglaries. It does prove however, that crime does occur everywhere, even in quiet retirement communities. It only shows data for this year, wish it could go back further.


httphttp://cityofhenderson.com/police/crime_search.php

 

[fridaybaker]

SassyBenton, I'm still interested in trying to do some work here but I find it quite difficult w/o the timeline and FAQ's. There are soooo many posts that if a person hasn't followed it from the beginning, all of the facts can be virtually impossible, at least for me, to remember.

I think your search for crime in SCA is great. I'd love to see the results of the rest of the area. When I get a chance, I'll look up some more intersections and see what comes up from inputing them into your link. It might add more to the overall picture and understanding of the area.

Perhaps we could start a list of everyone we've ever heard of being connected with SK, especially in the days leading up to his disappearance and kind of "profile" each one -what do we know about him/her? What are the questions surrounding each person, their relationship to SK, etc.

I will say this: An intrepid WS member here once directed us to two people who called SK repeatedly AFTER HE PARKED HIS CAR. Those calls stand out since no one else called much in those days. (This was mentioned in several posts, and I can't put my finger on them right now.) Perhaps that is a good place to start in terms of focusing on acquaintances.

Also, I had an open mind at the beginning about the possibility of a voluntary disappearance, but it seems pretty unlikely to me at this point. I would think that something, somewhere, would turn up pointing to it. The fact that there hasn't been anything, actual evidence-wise, pointing to it, combined w/ there not being any activity, such as cc use, ss number, etc., flagged, just makes that a very, very small possibility, in my view. Nonetheless, a possibility. (He could have done research on disappearing/suicide/job opportunities, etc., on a computer at the library, which he apparently used at times. I don't think we know how often he used the computer at the library, which is something that would be great to know -was it a habit? -had he only done this a couple times a year or so, and did so in the days leading up to his disappearance? .... Then there is speculation that he was unhappy enough with his status in life to just up and change it and other theories. There just isn't really anything concrete that leads us in that direction, unfortunately.)

Hopefully, there is more going on "behind the scene" in the investigation, but it certainly sounds like LE/PI's don't have much more to go on than we do.

Hope he's found soon.

 

[Fairy1]

One of the phone call friends is mentioned in this article:

http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story...eorge-Man--Steven-T--Koecher--Still-a-Mystery

 

[Fairy1]

The other who called frequently during the time Steven went missing was his landlord, but I do not find his name in MSM, so I can't post it here.

Perhaps a bit of sleuthing will reveal something??? C'mon peeps! LE and the PI (and I use that term quite loosely) have quite possibly NOT found the missing link. Perhaps WE need to do the leg-work for them....

If Steven Koecher was a victim of foul play, his killers need to be brought to justice.

 

[cloudajo]

I recently watched the Disappeared episode about Steven and then read information on the internet and most of the threads on here. Thanks to everyone for all of the great information. I feel that Steven went to the Henderson neighborhood looking for work and something bad happened to him in one of the houses where he was last seen walking. I can’t add anything new but have some questions and comments.

1. Does anyone know how Steven got the job handing out flyers for the window/blind cleaning business? Did he answer an ad or did he get the job through a church connection?

2. Was GW asked to take a polygraph? I don’t think he personally did anything to Steven, but feel he may have information about what Steven was doing in Henderson on December 13th. Perhaps he provided a connection to Steven for a job opportunity.

3. Seems Steven and GW had quite a bit of contact before Steven went missing, and Steven confided in GW about his financial situation.

Greg Webb, a good friend of Koecher's in the LDS church, said he called Koecher the morning he disappeared. His cell phone has not been used since, nor his bank cards. Webb said he asked Koecher to attend a church meeting in his place that day at 11 a.m. "He said he was in Las Vegas, but would go back [to St. George] if I needed him to," said Webb. "I was also in Vegas so decided to go back myself. I told him just to do whatever it was he had to do and I'd see him later. That's it. I wish I would have asked him to go back to St. George."

Webb, who did not know why Koecher was in the Las Vegas area, said his friend always told him if he was not planning to be at church. That Sunday, he never called. "It's one thing that sticks out in my mind," said Webb.

The power company was threatening to disconnect electricity at the house where Koecher rented a room and lived alone, according to Webb.

KCSG Television - Missing St George Man Steven T Koecher Still a Mystery

There'd been about 14 calls/texts between Steven and GW in the previous week, and then nothing after December 13th

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110067&page=18

4. The GW conversation with Steven the morning of December 13th doesn’t make sense as others have mentioned many times. As others have asked, if GW was already enroute back to Saint George from Las Vegas, and it’s about a 2 hour drive, why didn’t GW make it back for the PEC meeting that started at 11AM? I read GW did not attend the PEC meeting at all. Unless GW just blew off the meeting ‘cause he was having a good time in Vegas but didn’t want to admit that because he thought it would make him look bad due to his role in the church. Also, it seems odd that GW says he didn’t know why Steven was in the LV area, but told him to do whatever it was he had to do. That sounds more like a response to Steven saying why he was there (e.g. looking for work).

"He said he was in Las Vegas, but would go back [to St. George] if I needed him to," said Webb. "I was also in Vegas so decided to go back myself. I told him just to do whatever it was he had to do and I'd see him later. That's it. I wish I would have asked him to go back to St. George."

http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story/7040324/article-Missing-St--George-Man--Steven-T--Koecher--Still-a-Mystery
http://susanpowell.org/Pages/Response/Steven-Koecher-Susan-Powell/Steven-Koecher-Susan-Powell-Parallel-Timelines-Connection.aspx

5. Does anyone know when GW “searched” Steven’s apartment, was LE there during this “search?” Was GW a teaching partner with Steven? Article mentions “…to reorganize their home teaching visits.”

Greg Webb, who served with Steven in the 7th Ward's elders quorum, remembered searching Steve's apartment after he'd gone missing and finding notebooks full of plans to reorganize their home teaching visits.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700022063/A-trail-of-good-deeds-left-behind.html

6. I read that Steven had a tendency to screen his calls and then check vm, especially before he went missing. I noted that he answered the calls from both GW and SA on December 13th, so he wasn’t avoiding them.

7. It’s apparent Steven was looking for work using various avenues – including giving a friend his resume to distribute in Dallas:

One friend: I also sat by Steve during dinner at our Ward Christmas Party on December 7th. Steve asked me if he could give me some of his business cards to display at my work because he and his employer were trying to start cleaning blinds as well as washing windows. (I work at a design center where we sell blinds.)

Another friend: I talked to him on his birthday (I know that's earlier than Nov 13, but we did talk about jobs. He said he was still looking, and he sent me his resume the next day for me to get around here in Dallas.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zyBNQW8gJnYJ:www.facebook.com/topic.php%3Fuid%3D225335012614%26topic%3D25640+steven+koecher+christmas+decorations&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com#topic_top

Steven’s LinkedIn profile:
Steven Koecher - Writing and Editing Professional
I am currently seeking opportunities in technical writing, editing or management.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steven-koecher/16/9a9/164

8. When SA called Steven on December 13th, Steven was already in the Henderson area. I wonder what was he doing for the next ~1 hour until he parked his car on Savannah Springs Ave?

9. Is this map of calls made/received using Steven’s cell phone (Dec 12-14) accurate?
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=207138160948545500466.000486fc415768e7c3a74&ll=36.002287,-115.148038&spn=0.006666,0.016469&z=17&iwloc=000486fc587e40db58b94

10. I read Steven had AT&T voicemail service. He may not have had a password on his voicemail so anyone with this phone could have gotten into his voicemail. I’ve followed several other cases where the perp used the victim’s cellphone after murdering them.

AT&T Voicemail Security - Protecting your voicemail
AT&T is committed to providing secure access to your voicemail. Your voicemail service is set up for fast access to voicemail and does not require a password when checking voicemail from your wireless device.

http://techie-buzz.com/tech-news/your-att-voicemail-is-open-to-all.html

 

[OldSteve]

Gotta say cloudajo - Thanks! Really well thought out, well-done, and all with links to references!

Wish all the work that Laytonian had done (timelines, etc.) were still here to serve as an aid in your research....