NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 7

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
That is interesting, hollyblue. It seems there is a possibility that they crossed paths somewhere like Wendover, if it was on the 8th.

What possibility is there?

It was AN's mother herself (the woman Steven visited in Ruby Valley) who, with Steven's mother, thought it was more likely that the visit was on the 9th.
Remember: SK's family didn't know about the Ruby Valley visit immediately. If you read the FB page, you see two posts from AN on Dec 31st (three weeks later), and it really seems that it was "new" because she'd called her mother again. So all anyone had to go on, were vague memories and some receipts/bank records. The family, initially, said it was "Wendover" due to the bank record. I know I can't remember, three weeks later, what I've done unless I have a business record that tells me where I was that day ;)
THEN: No one mentioned Steven's temple visit on the evening of Dec 9th, until Feb 3rd.

Steven saw his boss, in St George, on Dec 8th. How could he have been in Ruby Valley from 11am-1pm PST on that same day?

To be clear about my earlier post, I don't think there's any evidence that Steven was involved in any adult industries. There is evidence that a "massage" service was operating out of a house in this area and certainly the industry exists in Vegas, and is connected to all kinds of other seedy industries. What is the Georgia connection? Atlanta is a major meth hub and heroin hub for Mexican drug gangs.

The "industry" operates everywhere. Five guys just got busted in St George, for soliciting prostitutes.

If you want meth and drugs, you don't have to leave Utah. We're on the direct meth route from Mexico (I-15 straight up, then I-70 east).

WHAT evidence of a massage service "operating out of" a house near where Steven's car was found?
 
there would have been traces of that on cell phones and computers. He probably had a prepaid phone and a second laptop that he used for this purpose. It was not like he was spending his money on rent or food.

I'd be more likely to think he had obtained a smartphone (which would do what his computer and cellphone both did) OR at least an iPod touch which will do the same if you find free wifi.

But now we're getting into genius disappearance land. I'd like to think so.

It's entirely possible that his family UNDERestimated Steven, which would allow him to pull something like this off. I mean by that, that they believed he would be led astray easily....when it may have been himself pulling away.
 
I'd be more likely to think he had obtained a smartphone (which would do what his computer and cellphone both did) OR at least an iPod touch which will do the same if you find free wifi.

But now we're getting into genius disappearance land. I'd like to think so.

It's entirely possible that his family UNDERestimated Steven, which would allow him to pull something like this off. I mean by that, that they believed he would be led astray easily....when it may have been himself pulling away.

Trust me on this one folks, if he did voluntarily disappear, the other person coached Steven on what to do. These were not the product of his own imagination.
 
Trust me on this one folks, if he did voluntarily disappear, the other person coached Steven on what to do. These were not the product of his own imagination.

Of course. I really don't think someone can pull it off, without a resource.

But he'd have had to have the initial desire, had to know who to bring the subject up to (the "right person") and then sought them out.

Do these people advertise, or what? Yeah, I've seen the "how to disappear" websites, which generally look like wikis with really silly advice.

We know what he checked out of the St George library, but we don't know what he bought/sold on eBay (yes, he had an account but I only know it by email address, not the username required to research). Or amazon. Or a million other websites available through the library.

We also don't know how much time he spent using the library's computers -- and THAT information would be available, because you have to log in and out using your library card.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: He'd also have had to develop the mindset to allow him to cut off certain people from his life. THAT's what I mean by his family possibly UNDERestimating him.

I think if he's purposely disappeared, at least one friend/associate (or even a trusted family member) is in contact with him.
 
We may all be underestimating Steven. But maybe we're also overthinking some simple facts.

One of my best friends (who also happens to be LDS) doesn't own a cell phone or a home computer. She should, as she lives alone. But she doesn't. She can afford them but these are just things she doesn't feel she needs. I've been begging her for years to at least get a cell phone, but she refuses. Her needs are simple.

gsmith has given us great insight into Steven's spiritual side. He was obviously struggling in some areas of his life. Isn't it possible that he felt he needed to get away to reflect and refocus? Not to engage in something he shouldn't be or that his family and friends wouldn't support. Now, it's been nearly 3 months and he feels it's gone too far and he's ashamed for having let his family worry about him for so long.
 
Of course. I really don't think someone can pull it off, without a resource.

But he'd have had to have the initial desire, had to know who to bring the subject up to (the "right person") and then sought them out.
Do these people advertise, or what? Yeah, I've seen the "how to disappear" websites, which generally look like wikis with really silly advice.

We know what he checked out of the St George library, but we don't know what he bought/sold on eBay (yes, he had an account but I only know it by email address, not the username required to research). Or amazon. Or a million other websites available through the library.

We also don't know how much time he spent using the library's computers -- and THAT information would be available, because you have to log in and out using your library card.

The answer is not on the library's computers. This is just my take on it and people are certainly going to disagree should they be so inclined.

Somewhere on his laptop that was supposedly forensically searched is the initial contact between Steven and whomever he was meeting in SCA. I believe they met on some contact website and they switched to just emails. After swapping some emails or the like, I believe Steven procured a cheap laptop for his use in this disappearance, which may not have been finalized until right before his last wild ride. (I suspect it was pretty much a done deal when he stopped paying his rent).

Thus any history of in-person meetings, mapquest searches and the like are on a second laptop which may have been what was in that portfolio he was supposedly carrying in the surveillance video.
 
We may all be underestimating Steven. But maybe we're also overthinking some simple facts.

One of my best friends (who also happens to be LDS) doesn't own a cell phone or a home computer. She should, as she lives alone. But she doesn't. She can afford them but these are just things she doesn't feel she needs. I've been begging her for years to at least get a cell phone, but she refuses. Her needs are simple.

'cept he had both, and he took the cellphone with him.

gsmith has given us great insight into Steven's spiritual side. He was obviously struggling in some areas of his life. Isn't it possible that he felt he needed to get away to reflect and refocus? Not to engage in something he shouldn't be or that his family and friends wouldn't support. Now, it's been nearly 3 months and he feels it's gone too far and he's ashamed for having let his family worry about him for so long.

Like going out into the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights, praying and fasting?

Maybe he got the answer, and it WAS something his family wouldn't support. The "dark side" that his father speaks of. Maybe God told him it was OK to follow his dream, as long as he did it morally?

gsmith has given us Steven's other side, things he liked to do and hung onto. In fact, I think he's kinda told us that although Steven was very spiritual (as expected), he was also rebelling against it a bit.
The podcast? That was for UofU radio (hear him mention K-UTE?) and that was two years after he graduated. He kept his involvement going there. (I can't find the link I posted months ago, about how he was the manager who turned in the two DJs who "went wacko" on the air.)
 
We may all be underestimating Steven. But maybe we're also overthinking some simple facts.

One of my best friends (who also happens to be LDS) doesn't own a cell phone or a home computer. She should, as she lives alone. But she doesn't. She can afford them but these are just things she doesn't feel she needs. I've been begging her for years to at least get a cell phone, but she refuses. Her needs are simple.

gsmith has given us great insight into Steven's spiritual side. He was obviously struggling in some areas of his life. Isn't it possible that he felt he needed to get away to reflect and refocus? Not to engage in something he shouldn't be or that his family and friends wouldn't support. Now, it's been nearly 3 months and he feels it's gone too far and he's ashamed for having let his family worry about him for so long.

Like going out into the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights, praying and fasting?

Maybe he got the answer, and it WAS something his family wouldn't support. The "dark side" that his father speaks of.

gsmith has given us Steven's other side, things he liked to do and hung onto. The podcast? That was for UofU radio (hear him mention K-UTE?) and that was two years after he graduated. He kept his involvement going there.
 
The answer is not on the library's computers. This is just my take on it and people are certainly going to disagree should they be so inclined.

Somewhere on his laptop that was supposedly forensically searched is the initial contact between Steven and whomever he was meeting in SCA. I believe they met on some contact website and they switched to just emails. After swapping some emails or the like, I believe Steven procured a cheap laptop for his use in this disappearance, which may not have been finalized until right before his last wild ride. (I suspect it was pretty much a done deal when he stopped paying his rent).

Thus any history of in-person meetings, mapquest searches and the like are on a second laptop which may have been what was in that portfolio he was supposedly carrying in the surveillance video.

Gotcha.
How about a Netbook, rather than a notebook computer?

10" diagonal screen, weighs 2.73 pounds. $299, not much more than an iPhone or iPod Touch. Can surf off ANY open wifi network. Almost EXACTLY what he could have been carrying in that video. http://snurl.com/up2ki [www_costco_com]

I don't "chat" or use messenger. Hate it. Only did it when I was required to hold business meetings that way. Never will again.

BUT, I understand that it basically evaporates when the session closes. Is that right?
 
'cept he had both, and he took the cellphone with him.



Like going out into the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights, praying and fasting?

Maybe he got the answer, and it WAS something his family wouldn't support. The "dark side" that his father speaks of. Maybe God told him it was OK to follow his dream, as long as he did it morally?

gsmith has given us Steven's other side, things he liked to do and hung onto. In fact, I think he's kinda told us that although Steven was very spiritual (as expected), he was also rebelling against it a bit.
The podcast? That was for UofU radio (hear him mention K-UTE?) and that was two years after he graduated. He kept his involvement going there. (I can't find the link I posted months ago, about how he was the manager who turned in the two DJs who "went wacko" on the air.)

But he left his laptop and quite possibly ditched his phone later. It's not impossible to believe he didn't feel he needed those things anymore.

Yes, it has occurred to me that he was questioning his faith. It seems he was trying so hard at church - always volunteering to help with whatever they needed him for. Yet the simple things he wanted in life were not coming to him. That would be frustrating for anyone.

And the fact that somwhere along the way he was told or developed the perception that playing the guitar would "ruin his life" sounds as if he was living his life under great restrictions. That would be frustrating as well.

One thing that I can't shake is why Steven, even when he had a good job, worried that he wouldn't be able to support a family. Why did he feel that way? It sounds as if he felt hopeless even then.
 
Gotcha.
How about a Netbook, rather than a notebook computer?

10" diagonal screen, weighs 2.73 pounds. $299, not much more than an iPhone or iPod Touch. Can surf off ANY open wifi network. Almost EXACTLY what he could have been carrying in that video. http://snurl.com/up2ki [www_costco_com]

I don't "chat" or use messenger. Hate it. Only did it when I was required to hold business meetings that way. Never will again.

BUT, I understand that it basically evaporates when the session closes. Is that right?

that looks about right. Not sure what Netbook is, but any device that would allow him to communicate with another that did not 1. show up on the laptop left behind 2. send any invoices or call records to an address 3. require a periodic payment and 4. easily mobile would accomplish what he wanted.
 
One thing that I can't shake is why Steven, even when he had a good job, worried that he wouldn't be able to support a family. Why did he feel that way? It sounds as if he felt hopeless even then.

He moved to St George to "be indepedent", which sounds like he was getting a lot of advice.

"That guitar will ruin your life...."
"What are you doing quitting that job? How do you expect to support a family?"

...and maybe he saw his friends struggle to buy their new homes, cars, start raising children, pay bills, tithe 10% of their gross to their church and knew (basically) how much they earned....when his best job was behind him?

Steven being described as "younger than his years" isn't an IQ issue -- but it COULD BE a sign that he wasn't taught to make his own decisions, so finally wanted to move away to do so. But it was a bad time to do it, and he hadn't prepared. OR maybe he had, and we're just seeing the results?
 
that looks about right. Not sure what Netbook is,

A device that lets you connect to the internet, has a full keyboard, and to which you can connect peripherals (external hard drive, printer, etc, through normal USB port system).

but any device that would allow him to communicate with another that did not 1. show up on the laptop left behind 2. send any invoices or call records to an address 3. require a periodic payment and 4. easily mobile would accomplish what he wanted.

The best place to buy one in St George, would have been at Costco...which is right near TH's business address, Jack In The Box, the DI......

And some of the questions this brings up, we'd never get an answer to because we wouldn't know who to ask (and Naegle wouldn't be privy to any cash purchases or friends who took him to Costco).
 
But wouldn't those contacts have left a trail on his computer or his cellphone?

IF he had an appointment, he was directed to park exactly where he did.

So, who's telling people to park there?
This couldn't have been the first time, could it?

Was someone getting complaints from their neighbors, about people visiting their house...because they were conducting person-to-person business from their home, in violation of the HOA?

Do we know how much LE looked at these? IIRC, the computer aspect was left to family. A family who only makes public what they feel is relevant or what's going to lead to the resolution they want. There could be a glaring clue in emails, or maybe Steven has a hidden Yahoo account they don't know to look for. Does Steven's family even know how to recognize codespeak for alternative lifestyles and hookups? His family would probably think nothing of an email or text message you and I would look at and go, OMG that's it!
 
A device that lets you connect to the internet, has a full keyboard, and to which you can connect peripherals (external hard drive, printer, etc, through normal USB port system).



The best place to buy one in St George, would have been at Costco...which is right near TH's business address, Jack In The Box, the DI......

And some of the questions this brings up, we'd never get an answer to because we wouldn't know who to ask (and Naegle wouldn't be privy to any cash purchases or friends who took him to Costco).

the problem with a thumb drive device is that you really can't remove stuff off your hard drive. So if he was plugging something like that into his own laptop, there would probably still be a record of it. Not 100% sure but if the hard drive was examined, it would have at least shown the usage of some plug in device.
 
BBM. That is great news!

Well....not really. IF it hadn't been, we'd still have hope that something suspicious could have been found on it. ;)

The old "no news is good news" theory. Now we know we'll have less news.
 
First, many crimes are not reported, and this neighborhood is not entirely occupied. Many foreclosures, and many second homes by people who live out of state. That is obvious just from public records. Many times people do not know that someone has been in their second home until they come back to check on it. If they do not rent it out, they probably don't even have a property manager who checks on it. And yes, these crimes happen in broad daylight by people who disguise themselves as delivery people or utility people. A time when many neighbors are likely to be at church or at the country club is a prime burglary time in Utah and Arizona. Many burglars choose the crime because it is quick and they are looking for something to fence. They are high or jonesing for their next fix. That makes them especially dangerous to encounter.

This is why I think that the first things that need to happen are looking at the door-to-door canvassing - who was missed? who wasn't home the first time? has every home in the area been searched? how about sheds, crawl spaces? Cadaver dogs can do this.

Second, if Steven went to see someone, it doesn't follow that he HAD to have an appointment and that there would be a cell phone or computer trail. He himself has already shown us that he sometimes shows up places to see people. Also, if Steven called someone at their work, that wouldn't show as suspicious or unusual (calling Lowe's, etc.). If he met someone in person, at an IHOP, that person might just give out their address and invite him to come by.

Also, there needs to be a foot search starting where his car was parked and extending as far out as possible, then another one in the foothills, in case he was picked up and dumped somewhere, or he accepted a ride with someone and it went bad. Suppose he walked across the golf course to all the business on Hampton Road to leave resumes there, accepted a ride back to his car, but never got there. Steven's ward in St. George plus a few wards in Anthem, which has an entire stake, ought to be able to pull out hundreds of people, Scouts, etc. to search. Frankly, if Steven were the missing young father of two kids, I think more would be being done to find him this way so that this could at be done thoroughly and crossed off the list.

Gas stations where he stopped that week - are these the most likely places to buy gas on his route? or are any of them off the freeway and thus puzzling? was he visiting anyone else? making any other contacts who might be afraid to come forward? Just loose ends to investigate.

Also, young men are more likely than women to have psychological breakdowns, lose track of who they are, and become homeless. There is a group in Vegas that does free food picnics in parks and they were having one that day, although it was quite far from where he was. But one thing that may not have been done is to be sure that this group is keeping an eye out for him, and flyers passed out to the homeless people who come to the next gathering. Many of them will have their ears to the street and may hear something if a crime was committed, Steven was "rolled" for his ID and money, or abused. The reward in this case might be too modest to make a drug dealer come forward but it's a lot of money to someone who lost their apartment to gambling debts and many crimes have been solved with tips from homeless individuals.
 
Re: massage services, if you google, you can find Craiglist and other postings for "therapeutic massage" services which, if you take the phone numbers listed and reverse google them, you can find them showing up on sex services sites. You can further find that the phone numbers are landlines in the area of the Strip, but that the advertised services are said to happen in other neighborhoods like Anthem. This is a classic sign of a call service, as opposed to the legitimate massage services that are offered at places like the Anthem Day Spa.

All of which just says that not all quiet suburban homes are what they seem, as both drug dealing and prostitution frequently happen this way, and they can draw unsavory people to an area, possibly people who are short of cash, potentially on drugs, and may hurt someone to get what they need.

We also don't know which of these homes were rented and not occupied by the listed owner.

And one thing that tells me Steven didn't walk into the hills for a spiritual retreat is that he walked in the opposite direction - towards the golf course. If he had continued back down Savannah, then I might believe it, although it would still make more sense for him to drive until the last road in a subdivision, and then walk.

About home-based businesses, whoever said that they sometimes tell guests where it is legal to park, especially if they've had complaints from neighbors about foot traffic, that makes sense and fits. From what we know of Steven, it also makes sense that he just overshot the street and rather than turn around, parked and walked back.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
183
Guests online
3,637
Total visitors
3,820

Forum statistics

Threads
604,543
Messages
18,173,302
Members
232,658
Latest member
CinderFricknElla
Back
Top