GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[newone]

KM also doesn't know how far away from home the "road-rage" incident took place, nor how much time elapsed from the time BM and TM left to search out the "road-rager" until the shootout at her home.

I'm pretty sure if my mom and bro took off with a gun, I'd remember how soon they came home, considering mom ended up dead. I'd be on pins and needles the whole time. Probably calling them and looking out the window as well. I'd love to see all the cell phone logs.

bbm: totally agree == I would guess that KM might have been texting friends == and I have hard time believing she didn't know right to the minute how long they were gone MOO

 

[jayme1133]

bbm: totally agree == I would guess that KM might have been texting friends == and I have hard time believing she didn't know right to the minute how long they were gone MOO

If they were at the school as stated in GJ, why were they sitting in car for all that time without driving according to KM's testimony?

Text messages and phone records (calls) might answer all our questions about that night!

 

[SeeAlice]

Confessions or not, I don't think we're getting the straight story from anyone. That part really bothered me as he went to the exact spot where he saw the threat. I think he got in the car on Cherry Creek and then looped around the school to Ducharme and I think he even says they drove in the school parking lot. Just as I don't know what TM intended to happen, I don't know what EN intended to happen as neither party had to return to the scene of what they mutually described as unusual activity that made them leave in the first place - like I wonder what would have happened in an alternative scenario where EN winds up behind the Buick instead of the other way around.

There is a reason none of these various stories make a bit of sense. IMO,

 

[katydid23]

There is a reason none of these various stories make a bit of sense. IMO,

Because none of them are telling the truth?

 

[newone]

Because none of them are telling the truth?

or are experiencing memory lapses? Can't remember squat syndrome? MOO

 

[BellaVita]

No, that doesn't have to be. If TM, KM & BM (or some combination thereof) set out that night to hunt down EN, it's highly likely that Bob knew from his first convo with the kids that the shooter was EN.

Though I believe little of what RM says, he did say early on-before EN was arrested-that the people in the Audi knew where TM lived. And that one of the people was known to TM. I see no reason to make that up. If the M's knew before the arrest that EN was in the car, it speaks volumes that this was not a simple road rage case. IMO.

 

[BellaVita]

He went out of his way to explain to the GJ that when BM said "Bent down. Knelt down" he meant "leaning back." Let's take a look:

Q. After you saw the flashes, what did your mother do as far as operating the car?
A. When the flashes started appearing she knelt down, same as I.
Q. I'm sorry, you did what?
A. Bent down. Knelt down.
Q. Bent down inside the car?
A. Yes.
Q. For the record, ladies and gentlemen, Brandon is describing leaning back in the car seat.
A. Leaning back.

This is very much a "huh? WTF?" point in the transcript for me.

I think the DA knew they were making stuff up again and it made no sense. Even though the "leaning back" slightly makes the case more difficult, it is a more credible version. IMO.

 

[sonjay]

This is what bothers me after reading the first half of the GJ transcript: KM says no tinted windows, one person in car, she sees him clearly when he stands in the headlights, does not know him but she is sure it's not EN. She then helps make suspect sketch. Then BM testifies the car he is engaged with has tinted windows, two people, etc. THEN the detective takes the stand, looks at the sketch and says, "Yup, that's EN." No, it's not!! It's clearly not. What's up with all this... confusion??

And, of course, maybe I'm misreading or misinterpreting something.

No, the detective didn't identify the sketch as EN. That part tripped me the first time I read it, too.

Page 59 -- Mogg identified the sketch (GJ exhibit #2) as the composite sketch, then identified a picture of EN (GJ exhibit #3) as EN.

It reads to me as if the DA were laying the groundwork there that the sketch in fact is not EN.

 

[sonjay]

I'm sorry. I don't think they're that evil and calculated. I just think they are utterly and completely stupid. I believe there was premedication, but I don't believe they are sophisticated enough to have quickly established the complete fairytale that would be necessary for your theory to work.

Well, that's just it. They're not very sophisticated, and their story isn't working very well. KM's story (at least as reported to the public) has changed continually since the night of the shooting, and virtually no one actually believes that things happened as she has reported. In fact, it's not even really possible to believe that things happened as she has reported, because she's reported so many different and conflicting versions.

It was a cover story thrown together quickly by two not-very-sophisticated young people, and it's coming apart at the seams.

I predict that either it will self-destruct before the trial even starts, or it will be completely destroyed on cross during the trial.

I would bet LE knows it's completely fabricated. They're now saying that the alleged driving lesson/road rage story is unconnected to the car chase and shooting.

They know the driving lesson/road rage story is false, and they know that it's going to come out that it's false. And they realize that in order to continue to prosecute based on the car chase and shooting, they have to separate the two. That way, when the driving lesson/road rage story turns out to be fabricated, it won't matter to their case.

 

[sonjay]

There is a reason none of these various stories make a bit of sense. IMO,

Because none of them are telling the truth?

or are experiencing memory lapses? Can't remember squat syndrome? MOO

It's easy enough to make sense when you're telling what really happened.

It's a lot harder to make sense when you're making up stories about events that didn't actually happen.

 

[sonjay]

Few minutes. Some minutes. Synonyms.

Nope.

Thanks, this was very helpful to the discussion.

 

[BellaVita]

IIRC, someone else posted ^this ~ wk ago, sorry, no link. Did this info come from MrM?
Anyone have experience w hosp & med billing, as I imagine would be likely in Mr/MrsM's situation - many, many billers.?

IIRC, shooting was Feb 12, so while seems likely he w/h/rcvd some med bills with 2 wks or 1 mo, does not seem likely, imo,
that med providers or collectors would be pressing for paymt so soon.

Bills come quickly. After arriving home from surgery and a week in hospital, I received bills in less than a week. They can eventually sue for payment and seize assets.

 

[BellaVita]

How do you explain how BM and KM could have coordinated this part of the story when they had very limited time before the ambulance and LE arrived, not to mention they would be focused on TM's condition during that time period?

I wrote some time ago: I believe that initially BM and KM were not intensively questioned due to condition of TM. Perhaps not questioned separately. Maybe at the scene just one of them told the story to police and then the other M just followed along. I think BM and KM had sufficient time to talk things out before the police really got around to hard questions. IMO.

 

[BellaVita]

I don't think she thought it through, since once she found him and he tried to slaughter her the first time, she retreated. Obviously she made a mistake that she paid for with her life.

She knew she wanted her son and his gun. Her son flashed his gun and somehow unspent ammo ended up in the passenger seat. When the target of the hunt saw a gun being brandished, he self-defended. The difference being that EN could handle a weapon better. IMO.

 

[SStarr33]

She knew she wanted her son and his gun. Her son flashed his gun and somehow unspent ammo ended up in the passenger seat. When the target of the hunt saw a gun being brandished, he self-defended. The difference being that EN could handle a weapon better. IMO.

EN is not being charged for that incident. However, he then followed and slaughtered Tammy and I hope he rots in prison the rest of his life.

 

[BellaVita]

They weren't looking for him in the park. If they went looking for him, why didn't they take a gun to begin with? Sounds to me KM was learning to drive and driving erratically, because she doesn't know how to drive. Which EN then confused for "someone being after him." Neither party recognized the other party. Green car then left and on the way home apparently had a run in with another car?
Then went looking for that car, running into EN's driver's car instead.

RM says that TM knew the people in the Audi knew where the M's lived and that one of the car occupants was known to TM personally. This incarnation of the story was born when RM made TM a hero for "luring" the Audi away from their house.

 

[sonjay]

I wrote some time ago: I believe that initially BM and KM were not intensively questioned due to condition of TM. Perhaps not questioned separately. Maybe at the scene just one of them told the story to police and then the other M just followed along. I think BM and KM had sufficient time to talk things out before the police really got around to hard questions. IMO.

Yes, that's a good point. Since TM was still alive that night when police first got there, the first order of business would have been to get her to the hospital. And as her children, BM & KM would have been extended lots of sympathy and would have been handled pretty gently.

Unfortunately for them, they still didn't work out all the details sufficiently.

I think we have to remember that initially, the story was that KM & TM were having driving lessons, there was road rage, and the road rager followed them home and opened fire. And BM had been at home sleeping and came out of the house with his gun to return fire. That was the story; that was the whole story. Clearly they had schemed together to tell lies about that night prior to LE questioning them. Or, as Bella suggested, one of them told the story and the other listened and went along with it. I personally think there was a brief discussion between them about what to tell the cops, and the driving lesson/road rage story was what they decided on, but it could also have happened as Bella suggested.

It wasn't until several days later that it was revealed that Brandon & TM had been out with a gun hunting for the silver car. So clearly there was agreement between the siblings initially to tell the driving lesson/road rage story as if it were the whole story. We know they schemed and agreed to tell a lie about that night. That's not in question.

 

[BellaVita]

I don't think they were out trolling, but I don't think they knew they'd see EN there or else BM would have been along from the beginning (which he could have been as a possible reading of KM's testimony implies there's at least three people in the car at the time TM looks at the unusual person), but TM would have no reason to leave unless it was to get BM. There's a reason to leave sans BM with seeing EN as a target of opportunity, but there's no reason to leave if you've already got BM and are there expressly after EN from the get-go. I did get the feeling that KM wanted plausible deniability to seeing EN and it was seeing EN that triggered the trip home given how her testimony went all vague and contradictory at that point.

I've always thought it a possible all three M's were in the car for the whole event. And EN's testimony says that he saw "heads" in the plural inside the Buick at Mt. Shasta. There were heads in the car at the same time that someone with a beard was running out of the car.

 

[BellaVita]

Yes, that's a good point. Since TM was still alive that night when police first got there, the first order of business would have been to get her to the hospital. And as her children, BM & KM would have been extended lots of sympathy and would have been handled pretty gently.

Unfortunately for them, they still didn't work out all the details sufficiently.

I think we have to remember that initially, the story was that KM & TM were having driving lessons, there was road rage, and the road rager followed them home and opened fire. And BM had been at home sleeping and came out of the house with his gun to return fire. That was the story; that was the whole story. Clearly they had schemed together to tell lies about that night prior to LE questioning them. Or, as Bella suggested, one of them told the story and the other listened and went along with it. I personally think there was a brief discussion between them about what to tell the cops, and the driving lesson/road rage story was what they decided on, but it could also have happened as Bella suggested.

Amazing still how the story has changed. BM went from sleeping and being awakened for a shootout in the yard to the GJ testimony about him being "in a game" on X Box and being told to get his gun and go hunting. How will prosecutors ever explain this stuff?????

 

[sonjay]

Amazing still how the story has changed. BM went from sleeping and being awakened for a shootout in the yard to the GJ testimony about him being "in a game" on X Box and being told to get his gun and go hunting. How will prosecutors ever explain this stuff?????

The sleeping part was stated explicitly by Lt. Steiber in the LVMPD news conference on Feb. 17. So that's not RM or rumors -- LE would have said that in an official press conference only if it came directly from either KM or BM.

I also like this part from that news conference:

"At one point Mrs. Meyers was following what we consider a suspect vehicle. Then at another point they broke apart and Mrs. Meyers went home."

No mention on Feb. 17 of the 1st shooting scene. By this point on Feb. 17, ZA & KK had already contacted police, so police knew there was a first shooting scene.

LE was playing this close to the vest. I'm guessing that the Meyers kids had not yet told police there was a first shooting scene, so police didn't want to speak about it publicly and tip off the Meyers kids that LE knew they were lying.

Also, there's this, in that same news conference -- referring to when TM & BM were hunting for the silver car:
Mrs. Meyers "ultimately encountered that person she believed was driving the vehicle involved in the road rage incident"

BBM. I think by this point LE already knew she had not found the exact vehicle she was in an earlier road rage incident with. Maybe they believed there was no road rage; or maybe they believed there was a road rage but TM had found the wrong vehicle when she went back out. But they knew this wasn't what it appeared, and it wasn't what the Meyerses had described.

ETA: Link to that news conference, in case anyone needs it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPq81Ehq55M&feature=youtu.be