Identified! NV - Washoe Co., WhtFem 156UFNV, 25-35, Sheep's Flat Trail, Jul'82 - Mary Edith Silvani

[buffetoflies]

Did you try the internet wayback machine charlie? I think it's archive.org.

Also, as to how this gal was dressed... maybe she was mentally ill. Some disorganized schizophrenics wear clothing inappropriate for what the weather is and not really be able to 'feel' the difference... so if it was a little cooler she might have thought it was perfectly ok to be wearing what she was. The Mid 20's is the average age for girls to start developing the disease.

 

[Danaya]

Charlie, where did you post that?

 

[Charlie99909]

Did you try the internet wayback machine charlie? I think it's archive.org.

Also, as to how this gal was dressed... maybe she was mentally ill. Some disorganized schizophrenics wear clothing inappropriate for what the weather is and not really be able to 'feel' the difference... so if it was a little cooler she might have thought it was perfectly ok to be wearing what she was. The Mid 20's is the average age for girls to start developing the disease.

There was other evidence, I can't specify what, but it would support that the killer and the victim both came from somewhere else that day. Also there is a reason to believe that she wasn't killed at night. It could be possible she was killed that evening or even that morning.

 

[Charlie99909]

Archive.org didn't have anything I was looking for. Well back to the drawing board.

 

[CarlK90245]

This woman just showed up in DoeNet, and resembles Sheep Flats Jane Doe:

Edith M. LaRiviere
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2987dfma.html

The vital stats don't match up perfectly. She is an inch and a half taller than Jane Doe, and her eyes are brown, not hazel. And no indication that she lived in Europe.

But she has a similar facial shape, with a high forehead and protruding front teeth.

 

[Danaya]

I think it's worth looking into.

 

[Charlie99909]

I wish there was some more information on her. I'll see about contacting the officer in charge.

Thank you Carl!

 

[punklove]

While I agree it was a little chilly, it wasn't really "freezing." Okay - technically it might have been below freezing, but I bet the air temperature didn't feel near that cold. I did a little research on the temps of the day. Using dry/wet adiabatic lapse rates you can estimate temperatures at an elevation if you have observations from a nearby site. The closest weather obs station in 1982 was Truckee, CA, which is at 5900 feet. Using lapse rate equations, I estimated:

I lean towards the theory that she'd spent the day at the lake, was coming back, they stopped there to get out and stretch/go to the bathroom/fool around/do drugs or drink, and something went really, really wrong. I don't necessarily think it has to be premeditated because the killer had a gun on him/her. Maybe they were afraid of bears. :waitasec:

Ive went back and forth with the clothing - no matter how long I think about it I find it confusing that anyone would want to walk that far from where the car should have been in 7 inchs of snow. If the intent was to go to the bathroom, do drugs or have sex (or whatever else) why leave the parking area? What is the benefit for her walking into a forrest in the middle of the night when its cold and shes underdressed and there is snow on the ground? There has to be some reason she decided to leave the parking area and start walking on that path

In regards to it being premeditated or not - there was no struggle so it makes me feel that the person that took her there intended to kill her - had something happened that suddenly made the person decide to kill her there would be some sign of struggle.

The clothing thing bothers me - anyway you look at it 40 degrees and 7 inches of snow is cold so I can only assume there would be some reluctance on her part to walk that far down the path because not only would she have been cold but the snow would have resulted in her wearing wet clothing/shoes when she left.

Wasnt there a lot of weird stuff going on there before this happened? I somewhat remember there being a female ranger that was raped/abused by men coming out of the woods with guns but she was able to get away?

Is it possible that our UID was simply making a pit stop and fell prey to a similar situation? Its possible that she pulled over in the parking area for whatever reason (to sleep due to driving for a long time, to use bathroom.. whatever) and had someone come up to her and forced her to walk down the path because they wouldnt want to have raped/abused her in the parking area because they wouldnt be sure someone else wouldnt pull in and catch them? He/They could have held her at gun point and forced her to walk down the path and forced/told her to give him oral sex at gunpoint - this could account for her swimsuit top being pulled down & her being on her knees before being shot as well as the lack of struggle.

 

[punklove]

Also, as to how this gal was dressed... maybe she was mentally ill. Some disorganized schizophrenics wear clothing inappropriate for what the weather is and not really be able to 'feel' the difference... so if it was a little cooler she might have thought it was perfectly ok to be wearing what she was. The Mid 20's is the average age for girls to start developing the disease.

Schizophrenics are also very paranoid/suspicious so I think it would be unlikely they would be lead anywhere without there being a struggle.

 

[punklove]

This puts the whole bathing suit under her clothes into question as to why they would have gone swimming with that much snow near there.

Could you ask how they knew that what she was wearing was actually a swim suit and not a bodysuit or leotard?

I always assumed 1 of 2 things - 1) the swimsuit (or whatever) was being worn as underwear (we have touched on this before, the bruise on her toe and hair in bun could point to her being a dancer and its common for dancers to wear leaotards under their clothing) OR she was on some sort of of road trip where she expected to swim.

I never really thought that she was swimming in that area, I just assumed that she was making a stop between point A and point B in that area and that she was heading somewhere that wouldnt be that cold and needed to stop for whatever reason - had she been swimming her suit would have been wet when she was found.

 

[reasypeasy]

Could you ask how they knew that what she was wearing was actually a swim suit and not a bodysuit or leotard?

I always assumed 1 of 2 things - 1) the swimsuit (or whatever) was being worn as underwear (we have touched on this before, the bruise on her toe and hair in bun could point to her being a dancer and its common for dancers to wear leaotards under their clothing) OR she was on some sort of of road trip where she expected to swim.

I never really thought that she was swimming in that area, I just assumed that she was making a stop between point A and point B in that area and that she was heading somewhere that wouldnt be that cold and needed to stop for whatever reason - had she been swimming her suit would have been wet when she was found.

I've been thinking about the swimming angle. Maybe she wasn't expecting swimming where she was going, but was expecting a spa pool or hot tub?

 

[carbuff]

This woman just showed up in DoeNet, and resembles Sheep Flats Jane Doe:

Edith M. LaRiviere
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2987dfma.html

The vital stats don't match up perfectly. She is an inch and a half taller than Jane Doe, and her eyes are brown, not hazel. And no indication that she lived in Europe.

But she has a similar facial shape, with a high forehead and protruding front teeth.

The nose looks right, too. Brown to hazel is not much of a jump, and the difference might be in the eye of the beholder. The height is within two inches -- looks to me like it's worth calling in.

Is this the same woman mentioned in this obituary as having predeceased her husband in 1981? If "M" is the missing woman's maiden name it wouldn't be, but it could be her middle name. The coincidence of name and date is pretty weird otherwise. But stranger things have happened, I suppose. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Charles+LaRiviere,+58.-a0173095794 If it is her, the family has connections to France. (If she's related to the other LaRiviere's in the area, she's probably French-Canadian.)

North Brookfield, MA is a small town, not quite the middle of nowhere but not exactly a metropolis: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=north+brookfield,+ma&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.461748,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=North+Brookfield,+Worcester,+Massachusetts&ll=42.333677,-72.074432&spn=0.221817,0.617294&t=h&z=11

 

[CarlK90245]

The nose looks right, too. Brown to hazel is not much of a jump, and the difference might be in the eye of the beholder. The height is within two inches -- looks to me like it's worth calling in.

Is this the same woman mentioned in this obituary as having predeceased her husband in 1981? If "M" is the missing woman's maiden name it wouldn't be, but it could be her middle name. The coincidence of name and date is pretty weird otherwise. But stranger things have happened, I suppose. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Charles+LaRiviere,+58.-a0173095794 If it is her, the family has connections to France. (If she's related to the other LaRiviere's in the area, she's probably French-Canadian.)

North Brookfield, MA is a small town, not quite the middle of nowhere but not exactly a metropolis: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=north+brookfield,+ma&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.461748,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=North+Brookfield,+Worcester,+Massachusetts&ll=42.333677,-72.074432&spn=0.221817,0.617294&t=h&z=11

BBM - Not just name and date, but also hometown. It's probably the same woman.

I'm thinking that maybe they had her declared dead after her disappearance, and for simplicity's sake just listed her as deceased as of 1981 in hubby's obit. It would be too complicated to explain in a brief obit notice.

 

[carbuff]

BBM - Not just name and date, but also hometown. It's probably the same woman.

I'm thinking that maybe they had her declared dead after her disappearance, and for simplicity's sake just listed her as deceased as of 1981 in hubby's obit. It would be too complicated to explain in a brief obit notice.

That would make sense.

 

[Charlie99909]

Wow!

Plus she was a mother as in her doenetwork and in that obit. Hmmm there are some great connections being made here guys. This is getting good.

 

[punklove]

I wish they would post photos that werent so tiny on missing persons sites!

When looking at the actual photo of the UID and Edith LaRiviere the upper lip area looks a bit off to me. The hairline on the actual photo of the UID and Ediths look a bit off too, the UID seems to have a bit more of a square hairline (towards the temples) where it looks like Edith has more of a round one - Im not as good at the whole photo things as you guys are though!

 

[Charlie99909]

Well I just found out my current manager at my job is former Storey county sheriff and former Reno PD. Storey county is the county slighty to the southeast of Washoe County. I was talking to him regarding the John and Jane Does in the area and he said that since at least 1880, there are about 7500 John and Jane does in the area!

Holy heck! He even provided me with some great insight on other local Does. Some of which are so bizarre you wouldn't believe it. Unfortunatly he isn't familiar with this case. I'm going to talk to him more tonight.

 

[buffetoflies]

Schizophrenics are also very paranoid/suspicious so I think it would be unlikely they would be lead anywhere without there being a struggle.

Yes, but, there are different 'types' of schizophrenia. Paranoid type is the most common, but there is also a 'disorganized' type, and a few others that aren't near as common. Those are the two biggest. The main symptoms of the Paranoid type are (paranoid) delusions and auditory hallucinations. The main symptoms of the disorganized type are disorganized thinking / speech / behavior <--- this is wear the swimsuit in winter would come into play. It's a little more common for people with the disorganized type to maybe get a little paranoid at times, but if the main type is paranoid it is unlikelier? that they will be disorganized as well. Also because the disorganized types thought process doesn't make much sense, it's likelier that they'll get freaked out at some weird thing, not the intentions of the person they are with.

More info:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2006/types-of-schizophrenia/
Here's a youtube video featuring a lady with the disorganized type:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvdw4b7tC-8

 

[CarlK90245]

I was talking to him regarding the John and Jane Does in the area and he said that since at least 1880, there are about 7500 John and Jane does in the area!

I would suspect that a large number of those Does are either Native Americans or 19th century pioneers. That area was known to be a crossing point from the midwest into the west (e.g., In 1846-1847, the Donner Party became trapped and many of them died in the cold not far from there.).

 

[Charlie99909]

I would suspect that a large number of those Does are either Native Americans or 19th century pioneers. That area was known to be a crossing point from the midwest into the west (e.g., In 1846-1847, the Donner Party became trapped and many of them died in the cold not far from there.).

Here's an interesting note. I used to live in northern sparks, an area called Spanish springs. I was talking to my manager and he told me about 10 years ago when they were building the homes there they kept digging up bones. The bones were not in an Indian burial ground, but an old mining cemetery that hadn't been used in close to 100 years or more. Had the planners gone back into the city records far enough they would have discovered this. But instead they just kept building and bones they found they handed over to the coroner.

Another note, back in the 40's and 50's there was a big mafia presence in Reno. Spanish Springs was a body dumping ground. Bodies were still being dumped into the mid 90's. Mafia or not, there are a bunch of bones still there.