Found Deceased NY - Alfa Barrie, 11, & Garrett Warren, 13, friends, Harlem, 12 May 2023

[SimplyCass]

Someone who is familiar with the area: are the basketball courts open 24 hours? could they have gone out at 1:30 am to play?

Also wondering: which basketball courts? The wording makes it seem like it would be near Garrett's house (not publicly reported). The park where they were seen at (Brigadier General Charles Young Playground, 145th and Lennox) also has basketball courts.

 

[Knox]

So Garrett was seen nine hours after Alfa was seen - without Alfa?

NBC aired an interview with the fish market employee (from where the kids were seen together on Friday afternoon). The reporter asked him if the boys bought anything. Employee said they bought “a lot of food”, fish and shrimp. It seems this establishment sells fresh fish, but also sells fried fish. (That point confused me, so I had to research why boys were at a “fish market”.). The employee also said they were there often.
The interview takes place at 2:00 in the embedded video.

Where does an 11 or 13 year-old get money to buy shrimp & fish? Were they taking the food to someone, who also gave them money to buy it?

 

[Knox]

It's possible one fell in and the other jumped in and tried to help.

This article says the boys were found in separate rivers -

The New York Police Department’s Harbor Unit found the bodies of the boys several days apart. They were found more than two miles away from one another in two separate rivers, an NYPD spokesperson told CNN.

Garrett was found on Thursday in the Harlem River near the Madison Avenue Bridge, which connects Manhattan and the Bronx. Two days later, police found Alfa’s body in the Hudson River near the Upper West Side, according to the NYPD spokesperson.

Missing boys found dead in separate Manhattan rivers, NYPD says

By Zenebou Sylla, CNN (CNN) — Two New York boys reported missing last week have been found dead in different rivers in Manhattan, police say. Alfa Barrie, 11, and Garrett Warren, 13, who authorities believe were friends, were last seen together in Harlem sometime between May 12 and May 13...

kesq.com

Do the two rivers merge at some point, so finding them in different rivers isn't significant?

 

[Megnut]

This article says the boys were found in separate rivers -

The New York Police Department’s Harbor Unit found the bodies of the boys several days apart. They were found more than two miles away from one another in two separate rivers, an NYPD spokesperson told CNN.

Garrett was found on Thursday in the Harlem River near the Madison Avenue Bridge, which connects Manhattan and the Bronx. Two days later, police found Alfa’s body in the Hudson River near the Upper West Side, according to the NYPD spokesperson.

Missing boys found dead in separate Manhattan rivers, NYPD says

By Zenebou Sylla, CNN (CNN) — Two New York boys reported missing last week have been found dead in different rivers in Manhattan, police say. Alfa Barrie, 11, and Garrett Warren, 13, who authorities believe were friends, were last seen together in Harlem sometime between May 12 and May 13...

kesq.com

Do the two rivers merge at some point, so finding them in different rivers isn't significant?

One flows into the other, per an earlier article.

 

[Megnut]

Was the fish to eat or for bait?

Did they fall in after dark?

Scary awful to imagine one boy (my speculation) slipping into the water accidentally and the other going in for rescue, possibly in the dark.

 

[nao]

Where does an 11 or 13 year-old get money to buy shrimp & fish? Were they taking the food to someone, who also gave them money to buy it?

Ana's fish market..their menu is online, very reasonably priced and looks yummy. I think I read they were regular customers.....moo

 

[ch_13]

Do the two rivers merge at some point, so finding them in different rivers isn't significant?

Below is a picture of the northern tip of Manhattan.

• The red circle marks where the boys were last seen (at the 145th St Bridge) but not necessarily where they went into the water.
• The blue circle is where Garret's body was found.
• Alfa was found in the Hudson, but I'm not exactly sure where. There was crime scene tape at 102nd and Riverside, and I've marked that approximate area with an orange circle. Although that may have just been where the rescue team was set up.

It's important to note that the Harlem River isn't a true river. It's a tidal strait. Which means that the current can flow different ways at high tide vs low tide. The Hudson, although it is a true river, can also change flow depending on the tide.

 

[Cryptic]

Isn't it strange that they bought fish and shrimp before this happened? It doesn't sound like they were buying a sandwich or wrap.

I dont think so.

The African boys is likely Senagalese and fish is a big part of their diet. Likewise, fried fish baskets are popular with southern back Americans. Alot of black Americans in NYC have identifiable southern roots (usually distant now, but still there).

 

[rabidstoat]

It's possible one fell in and the other jumped in and tried to help.

We had one teenaged boy drown and another nearly drowned but was rescued by paramedics this winter. It was a case of boys doing risky things or just not realizing it was risky -- in this case, playing on thin ice on a lake -- and then one boy falls in and the other tries to rescue him. It was the one trying to rescue the first boy who ended up drowning.

Also, a neighbor had seen them playing on the lake and yelled at them to get off the ice because it was dangerous. The boys ignored her. She then thought about calling the police non-emergency number but while she was looking up the number one of them crashed through the ice, and she ended up immediately calling 911. And then felt guilty that she maybe could've done something to save them, but it's not like she could've physically hauled big teenaged boys off the ice if they ignored her. She was going to call the police, she did the best course of action, but I know she ended up feeling really guilty all the same.

 

[SimplyCass]

Alfa was found in the Hudson, but I'm not exactly sure where. There was crime scene tape at 102nd and Riverside, and I've marked that approximate area with an orange circle. Although that may have just been where the rescue team was set up.

(SBM)

I'd agree with that placement. Article says Alfa was found than two miles away from Garrett on the Upper West Side.

Point at right is where Garrett was found, and two miles away is around 111th. The green marker is 102nd and Riverside. And the Upper West Side boundaries start at 59th St and end around 110th.

 

[deadfoot13]

Where does an 11 or 13 year-old get money to buy shrimp & fish? Were they taking the food to someone, who also gave them money to buy it?

It's not a fish market like you would find in Boston. In addition to selling fish/seafood, they also sell already cooked food. It's no different than walking into a store with a deli counter.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Snipped...
...Surveillance footage obtained by police showed Garrett and Alfa walking together past a large group of people on Lenox Avenue around 6 p.m. Friday.

MSN

but he was seen at 130 am so whats going on here. (catching up)

 

[cvaldez1975]

Where does an 11 or 13 year-old get money to buy shrimp & fish? Were they taking the food to someone, who also gave them money to buy it?

some links say they also sold fried fish and shrimp so maybe they bought them to eat.

 

[Regal Beagle]

I can't imagine how cold that water still is even in May.

 

[PunisherWarJournal]

View attachment 423731

This map changes my opinion of what occurred. There's no way to rule out foul play. Something weird happened to these boys.

PWJ

 

[nao]

This map changes my opinion of what occurred. There's no way to rule out foul play. Something weird happened to these boys.

PWJ

Moo...maybe..but there was a big weight difference in the two boys. Moo

 

[ch_13]

This map changes my opinion of what occurred. There's no way to rule out foul play. Something weird happened to these boys.

PWJ

I tend to doubt that it was foul play. Despite the apparent difference in location, from what I know of the tides and currents in the area, Alfa's body certainly could have drifted into the Hudson from the Harlem. It looks weird on the map because we're not used to seeing tributaries making 90 degree turns, but as I mentioned upthread the Harlem is not a river, it's a tidal strait. Also, as @nao points out, the difference in body weight could explain how the boys' bodies ended up in different locations.

And, from a CNN article today:

The law enforcement source said authorities have an account from another teenage boy, who was reportedly at the scene, who says Alfa and Garrett were playing by the water’s edge, and that one boy shoved the other toward the water and they both ended up going in.

The third boy saw them briefly but did not see them come up again or climb out of the water. A couple of hours later, he approached an adult, who called 911 and described the scene to police, the source said.

 

[joyelle]

This map changes my opinion of what occurred. There's no way to rule out foul play. Something weird happened to these boys.

PWJ

At first I thought so as well, but after reading about how the currents of those 2 rivers tend to behave with the tides, I think an accident is very plausible.

It is my speculation that Alfa, being only 100 lbs, was moved north with the currents of a rising tide, then once reaching the Hudson, was moved to the south by a receding tide. (or could be the other way around too)

It's possible that Garrett didn't travel as far because a) he was more than twice Alfa's size, b) he or his clothes got caught on something in the water, or c) his body was found before the tides moved him too far away.

 

[bettyboop]

I tend to doubt that it was foul play. Despite the apparent difference in location, from what I know of the tides and currents in the area, Alfa's body certainly could have drifted into the Hudson from the Harlem. It looks weird on the map because we're not used to seeing tributaries making 90 degree turns, but as I mentioned upthread the Harlem is not a river, it's a tidal strait. Also, as @nao points out, the difference in body weight could explain how the boys' bodies ended up in different locations.

And, from a CNN article today:

The law enforcement source said authorities have an account from another teenage boy, who was reportedly at the scene, who says Alfa and Garrett were playing by the water’s edge, and that one boy shoved the other toward the water and they both ended up going in.

The third boy saw them briefly but did not see them come up again or climb out of the water. A couple of hours later, he approached an adult, who called 911 and described the scene to police, the source said.

This burns me up!! This other kid was there and only said something A COUPLE OF HOURS LATER? WTF. I hate to say it, but
could he be the one who pushed them in?JMO MOO
edited to delete repeated info

 

[sds71]

Democracy Prep will hold a vigil for the student Tuesday. In Monday’s Instagram post, the school noted, “Alfa was someone who was a huge part of his school community — always lending a helping hand to his classmates and teachers, always showing his care and sweetness to his closest friends and family, and always living life with a smile on his face.”

Alfa Barrie seen in video dancing with teacher months before tragic death

HARLEM, Manhattan (PIX11) — In a poignant video posted on Instagram, sixth-grader Alfa Barrie is seen dancing with one of his favorite teachers at Democracy Prep charter school in Harlem, sho…

pix11.com