Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*

[apearn]

I only really follow this one casually but I've often thought of her. I am glad too that Tammy's friend reported her missing. I'm sad to see it if she is Cali but she really does look like a good possible. Good call Carl.

 

[LunaticFringe]

I left home @ 12 yo for several years I have no Idea how really bad things did not happen to me I was with wrong people in bad areas no car etc, Lucy said it right ! I bet alot of us just look back and shake our heads and wonder Glad we made it , sad for those who didnt!

I am glad that you are here to post with us.

 

[LucyOso]

In Tammys case no report was made. Sadly, in the 70's many reports were made that were either trashed, or stuck into a filing cabinet. (As in my sisters case) If people could only walk into the archives of many LE agencies, and make copies of the reports that have been locked away for years......I bet we'd find many of our Jane Doe's among them. It is horribly sad that given the large amount of Doe's we have in our system, nobody has been given the task of retrieving those reports.

The only thing that bothers me about Tammy Jo is her hair. Tammys friend said her hair was even shorter when she last saw her in May of 1979, yet Cali's hair is shoulder length. My hair grows fairly quickly, but that seems like an awful lot of growth for just a few months. We tend to forget when we look at Cali's post mortem pic that her hair is wet and pushed back. I am not saying that is impossible, I am just saying it gives me cause for pause. How much length does he average persons hair grow in 4 months? 6 months?

Those are really good points. Hair length is a big thing. Tammy's hair was "shorter" in May. She had until november to grow it. It also looks wavy. With a little fluffing, hairspray, and blowdrying hair can appear much shorter than it is. Because Cali's hair was wet and matted, it might appear longer. We all have longer hair when we jump into the shower to wash it. With Cali, because she was so little, growing several inches to reach her shoulders wet would be a lot easier for her then a 6'0" tall woman. All perspective.

Of topic...I do see several people suddenly submitting or wanting to submit Tammy Jo for a lot of UID's in the forums. My hope is, we can run DNA and not swamp LE with potentials...Doesn't look good for us WSer's if we inundate LE with every UID from the 1970's and 1980's regardless of true similarity. A new/old missing person is exciting (in a sad way) and gives us hope some UID will go home/be named, but let's proceed with the same diligence as before. I am sure CarlK is monitoring...I hope. IMOO.

 

[CarlK90245]

Just adding a bit of info that I learned today.

Tammy is being looked at by the Hernando County Sheriff's as a possible match to the two skeletal Jane Does found in serial murderer Billy Mansfield's property in Weeki Wachee Florida.

One of the two is discussed on this thread:

FL - Weeki Wachee, WhtFem UP12589, 20-30, 1 of 2 Buried w/2 ID'd Victims, Mar'81



Their interest in her case was in the context of that case. Apparently, there is some indication that Tammy knew the Mansfield brothers because they were frequent visitors to her parents' truckstop.

The problem with that theory is that both Jane Does are estimated to be between 20 and 30, and one of them had spina bifida.

 

[momrids6]

just fyi for reference; It may not have caused any symptoms, especially as it was partial:

Occulta is the mildest and most common form. With occulta one or more vertebrae (bones that make up the spine) are not properly formed. The name “occulta,” meaning “hidden,” means that the malformation, or opening in the spine, is covered by a layer of skin. This form of spina bifida does not usually causes disability or symptoms.
http://www.mychildwithoutlimits.org...spina-bifida-diagnosed/types-of-spina-bifida/


eta; drawings of 2 unidentified;

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22014446

 

[Roselvr]

Those are really good points. Hair length is a big thing. Tammy's hair was "shorter" in May. She had until november to grow it. It also looks wavy. With a little fluffing, hairspray, and blowdrying hair can appear much shorter than it is. Because Cali's hair was wet and matted, it might appear longer. We all have longer hair when we jump into the shower to wash it. With Cali, because she was so little, growing several inches to reach her shoulders wet would be a lot easier for her then a 6'0" tall woman. All perspective.

Of topic...I do see several people suddenly submitting or wanting to submit Tammy Jo for a lot of UID's in the forums. My hope is, we can run DNA and not swamp LE with potentials...Doesn't look good for us WSer's if we inundate LE with every UID from the 1970's and 1980's regardless of true similarity. A new/old missing person is exciting (in a sad way) and gives us hope some UID will go home/be named, but let's proceed with the same diligence as before. I am sure CarlK is monitoring...I hope. IMOO.

No one can stop anyone from submitting. That's what I was getting at yesterday. I do worry that people from WS will submit as many UP's as they can find which will not be beneficial to any of us. In early 2013 I entered an MP in NamUs. The case worker asked how I started doing this; told her that I follow a few JD cases here. It then took me many emails to make her see that I care about the missing and unidentified persons and the last thing I want to do is add more stress to a family. The families I have worked with will agree that I am a help to them.

Tammy's sisters DNA will be processed; hopefully run through the systems. I do not doubt that LE are going through their systems to see if she is a potential match to other Jane Does. Right now we have 2 possibles. We're going to have to be patient.

Just adding a bit of info that I learned today.

Tammy is being looked at by the Hernando County Sheriff's as a possible match to the two skeletal Jane Does found in serial murderer Billy Mansfield's property in Weeki Wachee Florida.

One of the two is discussed on this thread:

FL - Weeki Wachee, WhtFem UP12589, 20-30, 1 of 2 Buried w/2 ID'd Victims, Mar'81

Their interest in her case was in the context of that case. Apparently, there is some indication that Tammy knew the Mansfield brothers because they were frequent visitors to her parents' truckstop.

The problem with that theory is that both Jane Does are estimated to be between 20 and 30, and one of them had spina bifida.

I don't know if he killed Tammy. According to what I'm reading on Murderpedia, he served a year in MI; paroled March 1980. they think his father killed one that was ID'd. I guess it's possible his father killed Tammy too if she turns out to be Tammy. Pretty sure Laurel said they have her school records; so have an idea of when she went missing

just fyi for reference; It may not have caused any symptoms, especially as it was partial:

Occulta is the mildest and most common form. With occulta one or more vertebrae (bones that make up the spine) are not properly formed. The name “occulta,” meaning “hidden,” means that the malformation, or opening in the spine, is covered by a layer of skin. This form of spina bifida does not usually causes disability or symptoms.
http://www.mychildwithoutlimits.org...spina-bifida-diagnosed/types-of-spina-bifida/


eta; drawings of 2 unidentified;

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22014446

Spina bifida occulta (partial) on the 4th and 5th sacral elements according to the post Carl linked to. I know that you have a lot of knowledge with these diseases that are linked. It's also called Occult tethered cord; which I have that has gone undiagnosed all of my life. I had typical symptoms of "growing pains"; my legs used to give out on me while walking up stairs. By the time I was a teen Tammy's age; it did not bother me until I was in my 30's. Think restless leg; bugs biting or crawling on your legs.

 

[CarlK90245]

In a second conversation with Tammy's friend, she said she found a postcard dated March 15, 1979 that was sent while she and Tammy were on their road trip to California. That indicates that they were on the road in mid-March 1979, and not Christmas 1978, as she had previously estimated.

So that would seem to rule-out Billy Mansfield if he was in Michigan prison from March 79 to March 80. But that doesn't rule out Mansfield's father.

 

[joeytes]

I do see several people suddenly submitting or wanting to submit Tammy Jo for a lot of UID's in the forums. My hope is, we can run DNA and not swamp LE with potentials...Doesn't look good for us WSer's if we inundate LE with every UID from the 1970's and 1980's regardless of true similarity. A new/old missing person is exciting (in a sad way) and gives us hope some UID will go home/be named, but let's proceed with the same diligence as before. I am sure CarlK is monitoring...I hope. IMOO.

I am not one who normally submits matches to Law Enforcement. I understand they are overworked as it is.

If I see I possible match I submit it through the Doe Network. I have probably made about 2 dozen submissions to the Doe Network over the past 2 years. About half of them have already been ruled out and the names have showed up on the exclusion list in NAMUS.

If I feel strongly about a match, I will submit the the NAMUS case manager. I do this rarely. Half the time I get a response.

All of my submissions are done by email. I never call.

After that is done, on to the next possible match.

 

[carbuff]

Those are really good points. Hair length is a big thing. Tammy's hair was "shorter" in May. She had until november to grow it. It also looks wavy. With a little fluffing, hairspray, and blowdrying hair can appear much shorter than it is. Because Cali's hair was wet and matted, it might appear longer. We all have longer hair when we jump into the shower to wash it. With Cali, because she was so little, growing several inches to reach her shoulders wet would be a lot easier for her then a 6'0" tall woman. All perspective.

(snipped)

Yes. In the 1977 photo, Tammy's hair has a big ol' roll curl that would add at least 4" to the length if it was wet and combed down. It's almost shoulder length as it is. So it could have been quite a bit shorter in May but still grow out to shoulder length by November. That's 5-6 months, and many people's hair grows at the rate of an inch or more a month.

 

[Roselvr]

Yes. In the 1977 photo, Tammy's hair has a big ol' roll curl that would add at least 4" to the length if it was wet and combed down. It's almost shoulder length as it is. So it could have been quite a bit shorter in May but still grow out to shoulder length by November. That's 5-6 months, and many people's hair grows at the rate of an inch or more a month.

IIRC the school photo was taken Sept 79 according to the classmates link Carl posted

 

[carbuff]

IIRC the school photo was taken Sept 79 according to the classmates link Carl posted

I don't see a classmates link. Is it in the other thread (which I'm not following)? I thought she was missing by September of 1979. I'm talking about the photo that's on Namus.

 

[CarlK90245]

IIRC the school photo was taken Sept 79 according to the classmates link Carl posted

No, it was taken around September or October of 1978. The yearbook is 78-79, and school portraits are typically taken at the beginning of the school year.

By September 79, they would have been into the 1979-80 school year.

 

[Roselvr]

I don't see a classmates link. Is it in the other thread (which I'm not following)? I thought she was missing by September of 1979. I'm talking about the photo that's on Namus.

You can see my post #6 in Tammy's thread

I had adjusted what I quoted of Carl with the Classmates link lol

The Date LKA is wrong. Her photo is in the Hernando HS 1979 yearbook. The NamUs photo is her 1978-79 sophomore portrait which can be viewed on Classmates

 

[CarlK90245]

I don't see a classmates link. Is it in the other thread (which I'm not following)? I thought she was missing by September of 1979. I'm talking about the photo that's on Namus.

Her friend says that she last saw Tammy around May of 1979, on the last day of school. Her friend moved to New Mexico after that. It is not clear when Tammy was last seen by anyone else, but it had to have been sometime during or after May of 79.

 

[chaddylex]

http://www.classmates.com/yearbooks/Hernando-High-School/4182720075/?page=102&layout=dual

I don't see a classmates link. Is it in the other thread (which I'm not following)? I thought she was missing by September of 1979. I'm talking about the photo that's on Namus.

 

[Roselvr]

It is one of those days. I shouldn't reply because I have so much going on; grandson just wants to be in my lap; touching my keyboard & mouse lol

You can see my post #6 in Tammy's thread where I took everything from Cali's thread over to Tammy's.

I had adjusted what I quoted of Carl with the Classmates link lol

The Date LKA is wrong. Her photo is in the Hernando HS 1979 yearbook. The NamUs photo is her 1978-79 sophomore portrait which can be viewed on Classmates

 

[momrids6]

In a second conversation with Tammy's friend, she said she found a postcard dated March 15, 1979 that was sent while she and Tammy were on their road trip to California. That indicates that they were on the road in mid-March 1979, and not Christmas 1978, as she had previously estimated.
So that would seem to rule-out Billy Mansfield if he was in Michigan prison from March 79 to March 80. But that doesn't rule out Mansfield's father.

Look at this article: states Billy Jr. fled to Weeki Wachee to be with his siblings and mother- no mention of Sr. I'm looking for Sr's incarceration dates...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...cAqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-WcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6869,7401441

 

[Roselvr]

Look at this article: states Billy Jr. fled to Weeki Wachee to be with his siblings and mother- no mention of Sr. I'm looking for Sr's incarceration dates...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...cAqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-WcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6869,7401441

see this one but we should really move to the other thread. I just started reading it

FL UP's

 

[sloane7777]

oh good gosh , I cant stop clicking on the links Someone make me quit!!!!!!:scared:

 

[CarlK90245]

The Livingston County Sheriff has confirmed to our facebook group that my submission of Tammy Alexander was the first of the numerous emails that they have received. There is some indication that the Hernando County detectives on the Weeki Wachee case might have been looking at this possible match a few weeks ago. But they didn't tell Livingston County about it (or NamUs as far as I know).