Hatfield
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NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #9
- Thread starter bessie
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Anyone can be sued, the question is do they have a good enough case to win.
Hatfield
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Exactly. Even those "waivers" and things you see like when you go snow skiing on back of your lift ticket that the ski resort is not liable for your injuries if you ski into a tree and kill yourself. Its not worth the paper its printed on because people will sue and sometimes win anyway.
Its all up to the judges and juries how far the case goes and if it is successful.
I totally agree. I really do get bent out of shape when unarmed people are killed by LE. JMO, that happens either when specific LE are super macho or if they have not had adequate training.
Hatfield
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All JMO
Just an observation and opinion about why Canada was always brought up as far as a likely target place for the convicts to head to.
This is JMO and I want to first say I sincerely love Canada. I always have. I am a huge hockey fanatic and have always enjoyed the hockey rivalries between some of the US and Canada teams.
During this case some of our Canada people have questioned why there were a lot of posts assuming the convicts were heading up to Canada and I think I can help explain. I think the answer is mainly for 2 reasons.
1-A lot of us who have lived and been born in the US lived through the Vietnam days and back then, there was lots of news about some people heading up to Canada to avoid the draft. During that time it made huge news and it became common to hear about running away to to live in Canada. The actual numbers of people actually doing that may have been small but the news about it was huge.
2-Since the prison escape was so close to the border, it just seemed like logical thinking for US based people to think about heading to Canada. Not that it would have been any safer for the escapees or anything but it just seemed like getting out of the country would have been a logical thought for the convicts. In their minds and even some of our minds, it seems it may have taken some of the pressure of the huge manhunt off of them once they were out of US jurisdiction.
In actuality, it may have been worse for them had they made it. The mounties have a great reputation for professionalism.
Anyway, I thought I would share my opinion about this because the topic came up quite a bit in the past couple weeks and I had thought about it a lot.
Just an observation and opinion about why Canada was always brought up as far as a likely target place for the convicts to head to.
This is JMO and I want to first say I sincerely love Canada. I always have. I am a huge hockey fanatic and have always enjoyed the hockey rivalries between some of the US and Canada teams.
During this case some of our Canada people have questioned why there were a lot of posts assuming the convicts were heading up to Canada and I think I can help explain. I think the answer is mainly for 2 reasons.
1-A lot of us who have lived and been born in the US lived through the Vietnam days and back then, there was lots of news about some people heading up to Canada to avoid the draft. During that time it made huge news and it became common to hear about running away to to live in Canada. The actual numbers of people actually doing that may have been small but the news about it was huge.
2-Since the prison escape was so close to the border, it just seemed like logical thinking for US based people to think about heading to Canada. Not that it would have been any safer for the escapees or anything but it just seemed like getting out of the country would have been a logical thought for the convicts. In their minds and even some of our minds, it seems it may have taken some of the pressure of the huge manhunt off of them once they were out of US jurisdiction.
In actuality, it may have been worse for them had they made it. The mounties have a great reputation for professionalism.
Anyway, I thought I would share my opinion about this because the topic came up quite a bit in the past couple weeks and I had thought about it a lot.
screecher
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The union doesn't 'manage' the workers, right hand man of Gov Cuomo, Commissioner Anucci 'manages' the workers, under Gov Cuomo's direction, supervision.
It seems that way sometimes, but actually, that's not true. Whole categories of employees of the executive branch, for instance, have absolute immunity from being sued while performing the duties of their positions.
State and federal LEO have "qualified immunity," not absolute, but even their limited immunity stretches pretty far. Matt's son (theoretically, if he wanted to sue) would have to be able to prove that the federal officer who shot Matt violated some Constitutional right belonging to Matt. And no, Matt in these circumstances had no Constitutional right to life or liberty or the pursuit of happiness.
Sorry, but the idea of a lawsuit by Matt's son against the feds is just plain silly. Against Clinton is also unlikely, but at least within the realm of possibility, maybe.
^^RBBM
And deader-than-a-doornail Matt will not dispute it
O, there it is, as expected: Sweat denies sexual relationship with Tillie (CNN)
MinnesotaMary
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Yes, FYI, there are A TON of 'you sign here' forms, and private agreements (1 to 1) that are defective all over the map.
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Hmmm. So Tillie wanted hubby dead. I guess one doesn't have to stretch very far to believe Matt 100% on that. So then I believe 1st stop was murdering Mr. Tillie, and the 3-some would drive down to Mexico, but doncha think the 2 might have murdered Tillie at any point - they'd 'keep her' only so long as she was as asset. ALTERNATIVELY, with all the time Sweat spent with Tillie (b4 those 2 got separated), and then all the time Matt & Tillie shared their dreams with one another, perhaps the 3 of them really were bonded? ! Could be....
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The El Paso TX Border Patrol officer who shot Matt was from a super duper elite group of law enforcement - to do that sort of work those special Border Patrol officers have tremendous skill at thinking (quick!) on their feet, making a decision of what's the right thing to do, and then following through (e.g., 3 shots to Matt's top of head). I'm sure 'Command' have specific orders out to all the officers about 'when to fire'... - I bet the order was ONLY if you, officer, know that you are COMPLETELY SAFE, then ok, in your discretion not to shoot.
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That county attorney is such a yapper - I hope he tells us Matt's blood alcohol levels and I trust they checked Matt's lungs, tummy and intestines, and I they tell us what'all Matt was ill with - sounds like he was in a really bad state. Following a super-botched dental procedure, I would up with 'cellulitis' in my face, so they give you this antibiotic that is such a killer, it caused 'c-diff' infection. The doctor misdiagnosed me, and oh, I got super duper ill, so weak, so ill - I won't go into details but it was Bad, and I bet Matt was feeling super bad with whatever illnesses he had (sounds like multiple illnesses). And the thought of being sick as we've been told Matt was and getting drunk seeks YUCK - but maybe the booze was the only anesthesia available, and all the pot was used up, so it was the best he could do to try to help himself. Poor Matt it seems needed antibiotics to get well - - if Tillie had picked them up at the sewer lid like she promised, and Matt wound up sick, I guess in Mexico they could simply walk in a shop and buy whatever pills they wanted, correct?
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IMO I do NOT feel it's right for that Palmer to be out on bail. That large manilla in which he put a pic' to smuggle out of the jail - IMO so very, very sinister how he wrote 'NAACP' and underlined it a couple times ------ gimmee a break -- Palmer was doing that to dupe the other staff (meaning, the ones who were not a part of the corruption - I believe there is at minimum one or two more male staffers who are utterly corrupt but not identified at this time) to think Palmer, Mr. Nice/Mr. Good, was OMG taking something very important and gonna drive whatever it was right over to the NAACP even tho' Palmer was 'off the clock', such a good guy he is ! Aha !! Take a lookie, NAACP branch not that far away !! wow: http://nysnaacp.org/branchlocations.html
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Hmmm. So Tillie wanted hubby dead. I guess one doesn't have to stretch very far to believe Matt 100% on that. So then I believe 1st stop was murdering Mr. Tillie, and the 3-some would drive down to Mexico, but doncha think the 2 might have murdered Tillie at any point - they'd 'keep her' only so long as she was as asset. ALTERNATIVELY, with all the time Sweat spent with Tillie (b4 those 2 got separated), and then all the time Matt & Tillie shared their dreams with one another, perhaps the 3 of them really were bonded? ! Could be....
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The El Paso TX Border Patrol officer who shot Matt was from a super duper elite group of law enforcement - to do that sort of work those special Border Patrol officers have tremendous skill at thinking (quick!) on their feet, making a decision of what's the right thing to do, and then following through (e.g., 3 shots to Matt's top of head). I'm sure 'Command' have specific orders out to all the officers about 'when to fire'... - I bet the order was ONLY if you, officer, know that you are COMPLETELY SAFE, then ok, in your discretion not to shoot.
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That county attorney is such a yapper - I hope he tells us Matt's blood alcohol levels and I trust they checked Matt's lungs, tummy and intestines, and I they tell us what'all Matt was ill with - sounds like he was in a really bad state. Following a super-botched dental procedure, I would up with 'cellulitis' in my face, so they give you this antibiotic that is such a killer, it caused 'c-diff' infection. The doctor misdiagnosed me, and oh, I got super duper ill, so weak, so ill - I won't go into details but it was Bad, and I bet Matt was feeling super bad with whatever illnesses he had (sounds like multiple illnesses). And the thought of being sick as we've been told Matt was and getting drunk seeks YUCK - but maybe the booze was the only anesthesia available, and all the pot was used up, so it was the best he could do to try to help himself. Poor Matt it seems needed antibiotics to get well - - if Tillie had picked them up at the sewer lid like she promised, and Matt wound up sick, I guess in Mexico they could simply walk in a shop and buy whatever pills they wanted, correct?
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IMO I do NOT feel it's right for that Palmer to be out on bail. That large manilla in which he put a pic' to smuggle out of the jail - IMO so very, very sinister how he wrote 'NAACP' and underlined it a couple times ------ gimmee a break -- Palmer was doing that to dupe the other staff (meaning, the ones who were not a part of the corruption - I believe there is at minimum one or two more male staffers who are utterly corrupt but not identified at this time) to think Palmer, Mr. Nice/Mr. Good, was OMG taking something very important and gonna drive whatever it was right over to the NAACP even tho' Palmer was 'off the clock', such a good guy he is ! Aha !! Take a lookie, NAACP branch not that far away !! wow: http://nysnaacp.org/branchlocations.html
CNN Live: Tillie's conspiracy to commit murder charge?
Have to show overstep taken in commission of murder
No evidence set her hubby up to be at manhole
No evidence set up hubby with murder weapon
Difficult to prove>not likely
DA said earlier today no further charges brought against Tille at this point
BC he doesn't have any evidence that she was involved in this ridiculous murder plot imo!
It's similar to DA's early on trying to sell to the public that the CO was coerced by Tillie's delicious baked goods & that's why he did the Warden's, I mean, Tillie's bidding
Have to show overstep taken in commission of murder
No evidence set her hubby up to be at manhole
No evidence set up hubby with murder weapon
Difficult to prove>not likely
DA said earlier today no further charges brought against Tille at this point
BC he doesn't have any evidence that she was involved in this ridiculous murder plot imo!
It's similar to DA's early on trying to sell to the public that the CO was coerced by Tillie's delicious baked goods & that's why he did the Warden's, I mean, Tillie's bidding
No reason to admit it, LOL. JMO
st. crispian
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Matt was essentially incapable of killing the Feds who killed him. The reports were that he didn't aim the rifle at them; he was too drunk to do anything but stare at them like a deer in the headlights. I do not know why they couldn't have blasted the gun out of his hands then shot him in the leg to keep him from running. He was no match for them. To sue the Feds - don't think so. The person bringing the lawsuit would have to have standing and against the Feds, I don't see that being the case. I think the force used was excessive - but try to get anywhere with it...
And if the consensus is that Sweat was a broken person, then Matt would qualify as being damaged beyond repair. He was born into a losing situation. A lot of people should feel shame..... including Matt, but he is the only one having paid the ultimate price.
Hahaha. Sweat gets revenge on Tillie. Doesn't even matter if he's telling the truth or not. He lied to protect Palmer and who knows how many other CO's. Tillie he throws to the wolves.
Will a judge even let the suit go ahead? Just because someone wants to sue does not mean it will even happen.
ctmom
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Referencing thread #8 Post #78.. Did a little research in the Tax Assessors Database..
As of March 01, 2015, 511 Poplar St is still under Israel Keyes name, however a different mailing address:
3705 Arctic Blvd #2891
Anchorage, AK 99503
9.99 acres Total Market value is: $30,000.
http://franklincony.org/content/Dep...ld=documents;/content/Documents/File/5570.pdf
6-28-2015, 09:47 PM #78 Abigail's Avatar Abigail Abigail is online now
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Not knowing who Israel Keyes was, I did a quick wiki search. Found some remarkable similarities to Sweat (except that I don't think Sweat was a serial killer): methodical, intelligent, planned his crimes in great detail, long ahead of time, meticulous.
Wonder if Sweat had some sort of hero worship for Keyes? And had figured out that his cabin was near the prison?
I looked up the status of the cabin at 511 Poplar Street. Apparently, the last purchase date was in 1997, which when I believe Keyes bought it. Not sure who owns it now -- a family member? Or, is it just sitting there waiting for the county to claim it for unpaid taxes? He'd been paying taxes on it until his suicide in 2012. An Amish family lived there very briefly, perhaps a month, while he was still alive. This article describes the cabin with most of the windows broken and a big hole in the roof. http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/a...WS07/708049905
Wonder if Sweat was headed NOT for Canada, but to this cabin? Knowing the the owner would NEVER come there?
As of March 01, 2015, 511 Poplar St is still under Israel Keyes name, however a different mailing address:
3705 Arctic Blvd #2891
Anchorage, AK 99503
9.99 acres Total Market value is: $30,000.
http://franklincony.org/content/Dep...ld=documents;/content/Documents/File/5570.pdf
6-28-2015, 09:47 PM #78 Abigail's Avatar Abigail Abigail is online now
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Not knowing who Israel Keyes was, I did a quick wiki search. Found some remarkable similarities to Sweat (except that I don't think Sweat was a serial killer): methodical, intelligent, planned his crimes in great detail, long ahead of time, meticulous.
Wonder if Sweat had some sort of hero worship for Keyes? And had figured out that his cabin was near the prison?
I looked up the status of the cabin at 511 Poplar Street. Apparently, the last purchase date was in 1997, which when I believe Keyes bought it. Not sure who owns it now -- a family member? Or, is it just sitting there waiting for the county to claim it for unpaid taxes? He'd been paying taxes on it until his suicide in 2012. An Amish family lived there very briefly, perhaps a month, while he was still alive. This article describes the cabin with most of the windows broken and a big hole in the roof. http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/a...WS07/708049905
Wonder if Sweat was headed NOT for Canada, but to this cabin? Knowing the the owner would NEVER come there?
Quoting myself. Sorry, I should have edited before I hit the post button. I intended to say when unarmed innocent people are killed by LE.
Security gates going on tunnels...
Jennifer Lewke
4h4 hours ago
Jennifer Lewke ‏@CBS6Jennifer
Clinton's "Honor Block" has been eliminated and security gates are being installed within the facility's tunnels #PrisonBreakNY @CBS6Albany
Jennifer Lewke
4h4 hours ago
Jennifer Lewke ‏@CBS6Jennifer
Clinton's "Honor Block" has been eliminated and security gates are being installed within the facility's tunnels #PrisonBreakNY @CBS6Albany
Better than focusing on the male COs and the Admins. And why not? It's fun to focus on Tillie. She's 51 (O My, she's menopausal)! She's married! She cheated on her first husband when she had sex on the railroad tracks! EWWW! Look at her:
“The way I can describe it is in high school, when one of the good-looking jocks looks at the ugly girl or asks her to the prom — that look on her face. She was ecstatic,” Jensen said.
http://nypost.com/2015/06/24/shawskank-had-closet-sex-with-killer-4-times-a-week-ex-inmate/
I'm waiting for the conspiracy to murder (Lyle) charges from the non-stop talkative (while an investigation was and is ongoing) DA:
It's Bull & trumped up salacious nonsense spouted by DA to distract from the DOC's shortcomings, Cough (No pun intended) IMO
Amazing he was able to get away with it during ongoing investigation