NY NY - Ellery, Rte 17, WhtFem 30-37, UP15489 193UFNY, GSW, poss from Canada or Europe, note, clothes, Dec'83

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Falling Down said:
Just one issue I have with your great post...

Hungary actually had the most "free" economy of the Eastern Bloc countries, and despite the travel restrictions many Hungarians did travel abroad to both non-Soviet and communist countries.
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Thank you for this piece of info
 
Well, the more I think about Erzebeth Szita, the more I think that it could work. Especially the fact that she had a crown, which could be a gold crown.
UID dentals:
Dentals: Available. She had bridge work on the right side of her mouth which appeared to be expensive European dental work. The gold appeared to be of European origin.
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Underlined by me.

Our MP:
Signe distinctif
Trait Autre
Endroit du trait Bouche
Note dent réparée à travers la couronne
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"Couronne" can be of gold.


Now, what still bothers me with her is still the clothing scale size. As Canada used the US clothing scale, which doesn't match with our MP more likely than not clothing size scale on her clothing.

As we know, our UID wore European clothing scale, and our MP wore more likely than not American size clothing.

I wish we knew more about her background though!
 
Bit of hope said:
@dotr Did you heard anything back about Erzebeth Szita? You did sent her in I believe?
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Yes, i sent an email, but no response- possibly i sent it incorrectly, never had much luck reaching out with potential matches, so rarely do it and hope others send in any viable ones that i may post on this and other threads.
 
dotr said:
Yes, i sent an email, but no response- possibly i sent it incorrectly, never had much luck reaching out with potential matches, so rarely do it and hope others send in any viable ones that i may post on this and other threads.
Click to expand...

Phone is your best bet I think
 
As a local. If you don’t pester them the cops are not going to look into it... the cops around here are notoriously bad. The similarities are uncanny. It’s worth giving them a call.
 
Doesn't really add much, but I thought folks might be interested in the description of this case given to an officer in Utah in 1986: "R/O contacted Sgt. [redacted] of the Chautauqua County SO in Mayville N.Y. concerning the homicide of a female (unidentified) that had occurred in their city 120683- He advised R/O they found a WFA 33-37 yrs old laying beside a major highway that had been shot 2 times in the back, 2 times in the chest and 1 time in the mouth with the barrel of the gun having been inserted directly into the mouth and causing no damage to the teeth. She was dead prior to the shot in the mouth. The bullets are .38 cal but have 6 lands and grooves with the lands measuring .057-.058 in and the grooves .020-.021 in. The female was wearing only a wool skirt and a rain coat with the left arm and shoulder appearing to have been pulled free in an attempt to escape. The shots to the back enter at an acute angle and are the first shots with the shots to the chest having been fired at close range and in an upward angle. The victim has never been identified and no further evidence is available. R/O does not feel there is any connection between the cases. (A piece of paper with Vancouver, EC written on it was in a jacket pocket and she had inserted an IUD that is not sold in the US but is sold in Canada)"
 
kporter said:
Doesn't really add much, but I thought folks might be interested in the description of this case given to an officer in Utah in 1986: "R/O contacted Sgt. [redacted] of the Chautauqua County SO in Mayville N.Y. concerning the homicide of a female (unidentified) that had occurred in their city 120683- He advised R/O they found a WFA 33-37 yrs old laying beside a major highway that had been shot 2 times in the back, 2 times in the chest and 1 time in the mouth with the barrel of the gun having been inserted directly into the mouth and causing no damage to the teeth. She was dead prior to the shot in the mouth. The bullets are .38 cal but have 6 lands and grooves with the lands measuring .057-.058 in and the grooves .020-.021 in. The female was wearing only a wool skirt and a rain coat with the left arm and shoulder appearing to have been pulled free in an attempt to escape. The shots to the back enter at an acute angle and are the first shots with the shots to the chest having been fired at close range and in an upward angle. The victim has never been identified and no further evidence is available. R/O does not feel there is any connection between the cases. (A piece of paper with Vancouver, EC written on it was in a jacket pocket and she had inserted an IUD that is not sold in the US but is sold in Canada)"
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Thanks! Appreciated. There are a few things in there that I think weren't mentioned before, like the bullet entrance, order and the condition of the bullets. Only a wool skirt is different from other descriptions where they state her upper body was fully dressed and she had no footwear/underwear/nylons, but I guess this was the first obvious thing they noticed...considering the weather on that day....Interesting is also the note about the coat...The escaping part is also consistent with my thoughts about what happened. One thing is obvious to me...the killer wanted to make sure she was dead considering the last shot in her mouth.
 
kporter said:
they found a WFA 33-37 yrs old laying beside a major highway that had been shot 2 times in the back, 2 times in the chest and 1 time in the mouth with the barrel of the gun having been inserted directly into the mouth and causing no damage to the teeth. She was dead prior to the shot in the mouth. The bullets are .38 cal but have 6 lands and grooves with the lands measuring .057-.058 in and the grooves .020-.021 in. The female was wearing only a wool skirt and a rain coat with the left arm and shoulder appearing to have been pulled free in an attempt to escape. The shots to the back enter at an acute angle and are the first shots with the shots to the chest having been fired at close range and in an upward angle. The victim has never been identified and no further evidence is available. R/O does not feel there is any connection between the cases. (A piece of paper with Vancouver, EC written on it was in a jacket pocket and she had inserted an IUD that is not sold in the US but is sold in Canada)"
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It actually adds a lot, especially about the MO.

The more I read the MO description, the order of the bullets, the more I believe that it's compatible with a case of enforced disappearance linked to apartheid. The MO is eerie similar with how victims of apartheid were killed in those days!

I may be wrong, and the problem is that we don't even have an exhaustive and accurate list of missing people during the apartheid era.
The lists of disappeared in Argentina found on specialised Argentinian website are actually done throughoutly. The differences I found there were not such they became truly inconsistant.

South African list seemed to have been done sloppily, if not at all!

I'll contact Khulumani Support Group president for double checking about the MO consistant with a killing of apartheid regime.

The frustrating part is that the only available list is of the TRC, which accounts only for a minority of victims. Geee!
Khulumani Support Group is in regular contact with the WGEID, Working Group of Enforced and Involuntary Disappearances, which belongs to the UN.
As of nowadays, South Africa has not even ratified the International Convention for the protection of all persons against enforced disappearance! Link: UNTC

It makes the task even more frustrating than needed!
 
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Another question about our possible match Erzebeth Szita Service de police de la Ville de Montréal - SPVM

Was she active in politics, like belonging to a group against communist regime?
Because the manner of death is also consistant with an execution by someone tied with USSR regime.

Did she have family in Hungary? Was she in touch with them?
When did she leave Hungary?

This possible match opens a line of searching because of her being originary of a USSR country.

I'll try to find on CanLii if there's anything about her, like a Refugee Board decision. Though I can't guarantee that I'll turn up anything because it's a very old case.

ETA: as expected, Canlii was a dead end in French and in English Canadian Legal Information Institute | CanLII
Most decisions before 1996 are unavailable on the site.
 
This "Jane Doe Chautauqua County" Facebook page was set up last week

We want to get her identified, get the family some closure, and then hopefully that would give us some leads more into her homicide,” said Chautauqua County crime scene investigator Kristie Lyon.

Many leads have failed over the years, but one connected Lyon with a law enforcement agency in Louisiana. The agency used a Facebook page for its Jane Doe. The case was solved. The page is Jane Doe's first-person account.

“You you get that intrigue, people get intrigued by seeing that, that’s something that’s not seen everyday,” Lyon said.

Investigators said Jane Doe might have had a child 15 years prior to her death, and was approximately 33-37 years old when she died in 1983. Investigators believe she's from Canada or Europe based on dental work and an IUD that was only in four countries at the time, one of them being Canada. She was also wearing clothes from Europe when she was found.

DNA testing has been done on the clothing.

The Facebook page includes pictures of her clothing, as well as a note that was found on her from the Blue Boy Motor Hotel in Vancouver. The note has letters and numbers that have not been deciphered.

The motel no longer exists, but Lyon said investigators have receipts of everyone who stayed there when Jane Doe might have been there.

Lyon said she still brainstorms with some of the original investigators.

“They’re the ones that really did this leg work, we’re right now the ones that have the technology to try to get her face out there,” Lyon said.

Randy Vanderschaaff is a retired crime scene investigator for Chautauqua County. He was at the scene December 6, 1983, and began working on the case in 1985.

“Been involved with that until I retired in 2004," he said.

Vanderschaaff put her picture in a crime fighter magazine, and put her information in a European dental forensics journal.

“Well being that she’s never been identified that really kind of sticks with you because you would think this day in age somebody's gotta miss her somewhere,” Vanderschaaff said.
https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-new...-help-identify-jane-doe-asks-for-publics-help
 
imstilla.grandma said:
This "Jane Doe Chautauqua County" Facebook page was set up last week

We want to get her identified, get the family some closure, and then hopefully that would give us some leads more into her homicide,” said Chautauqua County crime scene investigator Kristie Lyon.

Many leads have failed over the years, but one connected Lyon with a law enforcement agency in Louisiana. The agency used a Facebook page for its Jane Doe. The case was solved. The page is Jane Doe's first-person account.

“You you get that intrigue, people get intrigued by seeing that, that’s something that’s not seen everyday,” Lyon said.

Investigators said Jane Doe might have had a child 15 years prior to her death, and was approximately 33-37 years old when she died in 1983. Investigators believe she's from Canada or Europe based on dental work and an IUD that was only in four countries at the time, one of them being Canada. She was also wearing clothes from Europe when she was found.

DNA testing has been done on the clothing.

The Facebook page includes pictures of her clothing, as well as a note that was found on her from the Blue Boy Motor Hotel in Vancouver. The note has letters and numbers that have not been deciphered.

The motel no longer exists, but Lyon said investigators have receipts of everyone who stayed there when Jane Doe might have been there.

Lyon said she still brainstorms with some of the original investigators.

“They’re the ones that really did this leg work, we’re right now the ones that have the technology to try to get her face out there,” Lyon said.

Randy Vanderschaaff is a retired crime scene investigator for Chautauqua County. He was at the scene December 6, 1983, and began working on the case in 1985.

“Been involved with that until I retired in 2004," he said.

Vanderschaaff put her picture in a crime fighter magazine, and put her information in a European dental forensics journal.

“Well being that she’s never been identified that really kind of sticks with you because you would think this day in age somebody's gotta miss her somewhere,” Vanderschaaff said.
https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-new...-help-identify-jane-doe-asks-for-publics-help
Click to expand...
New news link, awesome -thanks!
Surprised they included a close-up pm, and that the woman's eye makeup did not seem to run, thinking she may have been more attractive than what might be initially perceived, imo, speculation.
from link, rbbm..
''Lyon still works with INTERPOL and is looking to submit DNA to a genealogy agency.

So far there's been no leads from the page, but investigators check it everyday.

“We’re hoping that it's just going to go viral and somebody’s going to recognize her,” Lyon said.

This is the phone number for the sheriff's office, (716) 753-2131.''
 
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