Bit of hope
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Ok..no problem, we forget about her then.
NY NY - Ellery, Rte 17, WhtFem 30-37, UP15489 193UFNY, GSW, poss from Canada or Europe, note, clothes, Dec'83
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Ok..no problem, we forget about her then.
Unless we have new reliable information about her traveling to Americas.
You were right @Bit of hope : the case is way too old for the Swedish charity 
Looking at clothing size charts, Australia doesn't work because they follow the UK size scaling: https://www.finder.com.au/dress-size-conversion-chart
Same for NZ: Dress size conversion chart for shopping online | Finder NZ
It makes me think about Isabella Skelton. UK - UK - Manchester, 'Angel of the Meadow' WhtFem Skeletal, 16-30, buried, Jan'10
I think that she is not a match based on the time lapse, but also on the clothing size.
If she went to work in the US as a courier per the rumor, she would had worn either UK size or US size.
Problem is that our UID wears European, possibly Italian clothing size.
UK sizes follow a different scale than European ones, which is actually similar to the US one (but differing scale).
Same for NZ: Dress size conversion chart for shopping online | Finder NZ
It makes me think about Isabella Skelton. UK - UK - Manchester, 'Angel of the Meadow' WhtFem Skeletal, 16-30, buried, Jan'10
I think that she is not a match based on the time lapse, but also on the clothing size.
If she went to work in the US as a courier per the rumor, she would had worn either UK size or US size.
Problem is that our UID wears European, possibly Italian clothing size.
UK sizes follow a different scale than European ones, which is actually similar to the US one (but differing scale).
Posting her as a potential match, but I am not too confident about it.
1) No ties to Europe known, which is a major inconsistency. Clothing size scale doesn't work.
2) Possible sighting at Ottawa, but blood found around her abandoned car
3) Circumstances are more likely than not involving her estranged husband
Something doesn't add up to the story for making her a viable potential match. She is unlikely to be a match. Ugh!
Mary Emma Hammond
The Doe Network: Case File 368DFON
1) No ties to Europe known, which is a major inconsistency. Clothing size scale doesn't work.
2) Possible sighting at Ottawa, but blood found around her abandoned car
3) Circumstances are more likely than not involving her estranged husband
Something doesn't add up to the story for making her a viable potential match. She is unlikely to be a match. Ugh!
Mary Emma Hammond
The Doe Network: Case File 368DFON
Thanks for the reminder about Mary, noting that she is 5'10''.
CANADA - Canada - Mary Hammond, Brantford ON, 8 Sept 1983
Bit of hope
Life is a long lesson in humility.
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Hi @Giuc0, don't worry I will keep on searching. Looked at Denmark missing persons but that is difficult, because they have (as far as I understood) not a central database. It's divided information, like in Austria for instance. And off course there is a language barrier. Hmmmm, still thinking we should go back searching for missing people in or around Italy. More and more I'm starting to believe she is probably not a missing person on file.
Bumping with snippets from this re post.
Mysterious New York cold case with Vancouver link 'almost frozen' | Vancouver Sun
Lori Culbert
Dec 27, 2016
''It is a cold case that will not thaw, despite the efforts of police near where the body was found in Ellery, N.Y., about 100 kms southwest of Buffalo.''
''Jane Doe was found by a truck driver on Dec. 6, 1983, shot once inside the mouth, once in the back, and twice in the chest. Police believed she was Canadian or European, in part because she was using a European-made IUD birth control device that was not sold in the U.S. but was available in Canada.''
''Despite using the more advanced forensic testing available today, police were still unable to match Jane Doe to any missing persons’ reports or fingerprints in Canada, the U.S. or internationally.''
''She’s not from our area,” Holder said. “And we’re not getting any new leads.”
Since taking over, Holder has scanned Internet chat rooms for tips and re-watched a videotaped police interview done years ago with a convicted killer, serving a life sentence in an Oklahoma prison, who had boasted of killing Jane Doe.''
''The Blue Boy note appears to read: “Sas.k.R.h. 24233, K.R.Ba. 68301, Sarg. 74261”. Vancouver police questioned Blue Boy staff and customers at the time, but no one could remember seeing the woman.
Then Vancouver Sun reporter Bob Sarti interviewed Vander Schaaff in 1991, who said then that the letters and numbers might have been code for three internal phone lines at New York’s John F. Kennedy airport''.
''She was in her 30s, white, 5-foot-3, with brown eyes and shoulder-length brown hair. She had a wart above her left eye, a large mole behind her left ear, a scar on her throat, and had expensive dental work with gold fillings. She had had at least one child, possibly 15 years before her death.
Under her checkered trench coat, she had been wearing a blue pullover and a plaid wool skirt. There was no purse, identification or money.
Her feet were bare, and no shoes or stocking were found at the scene.''
''She was found in the ditch on a highway used by truckers. There were possible sightings of a woman matching her description at a Pennsylvania truck stop the day before her murder, which may suggest she was travelling east''
Mysterious numbers on a notepad from the old Blue Boy motor hotel in Vancouver. Chautauqua County Sheriff/PNG
Composite sketch of 'Jane Doe', a mysterious woman with a link to Vancouver who was found murdered 33 years ago in Chautauqua County, New York. Chautauqua County Sheriff / PNG
Mysterious New York cold case with Vancouver link 'almost frozen' | Vancouver Sun
Lori Culbert
Dec 27, 2016
''It is a cold case that will not thaw, despite the efforts of police near where the body was found in Ellery, N.Y., about 100 kms southwest of Buffalo.''
''Jane Doe was found by a truck driver on Dec. 6, 1983, shot once inside the mouth, once in the back, and twice in the chest. Police believed she was Canadian or European, in part because she was using a European-made IUD birth control device that was not sold in the U.S. but was available in Canada.''
''Despite using the more advanced forensic testing available today, police were still unable to match Jane Doe to any missing persons’ reports or fingerprints in Canada, the U.S. or internationally.''
''She’s not from our area,” Holder said. “And we’re not getting any new leads.”
Since taking over, Holder has scanned Internet chat rooms for tips and re-watched a videotaped police interview done years ago with a convicted killer, serving a life sentence in an Oklahoma prison, who had boasted of killing Jane Doe.''
''The Blue Boy note appears to read: “Sas.k.R.h. 24233, K.R.Ba. 68301, Sarg. 74261”. Vancouver police questioned Blue Boy staff and customers at the time, but no one could remember seeing the woman.
Then Vancouver Sun reporter Bob Sarti interviewed Vander Schaaff in 1991, who said then that the letters and numbers might have been code for three internal phone lines at New York’s John F. Kennedy airport''.
''She was in her 30s, white, 5-foot-3, with brown eyes and shoulder-length brown hair. She had a wart above her left eye, a large mole behind her left ear, a scar on her throat, and had expensive dental work with gold fillings. She had had at least one child, possibly 15 years before her death.
Under her checkered trench coat, she had been wearing a blue pullover and a plaid wool skirt. There was no purse, identification or money.
Her feet were bare, and no shoes or stocking were found at the scene.''
''She was found in the ditch on a highway used by truckers. There were possible sightings of a woman matching her description at a Pennsylvania truck stop the day before her murder, which may suggest she was travelling east''
Mysterious numbers on a notepad from the old Blue Boy motor hotel in Vancouver. Chautauqua County Sheriff/PNG
Composite sketch of 'Jane Doe', a mysterious woman with a link to Vancouver who was found murdered 33 years ago in Chautauqua County, New York. Chautauqua County Sheriff / PNG
For Italy, it'd be better if I search. As I said in a previous post, Chi l'ha Visto database is a real mess even for Italian fluent folks.
The Italian police doesn't have a central database for MP.
Her file could also had been destroyed.
Another question, could had she been missing during the Cold War? From an Eastern European country?
I am quite sure that there are charities working on this issue in ex-USSR countries. Will try to work on it if and when I have time to blow in a tissue :-/
Cannot find much information about this missing woman who is originally from Hungary.
Erzebeth Szita Service de police de la Ville de Montréal - SPVM
Missing Person Profile
Last Name Szita
First Name Erzebeth
Age (at disappearance) 37
Year of birth 1944
Height 163 cm / 5ft-4in
Weight 60 kg
Hair color Brown
Eye color Brown
Case number 48-190315-006
Last known location
Mme Erzebeth Szita est d’origine hongroise. Elle a été vue pour la dernière fois le 30 octobre 1981 à Montréal. Ce matin-là, Erzebeth était à son domicile pour préparer le lunch de son mari. M. Szita a quitté peu après pour le travail. Ce vendredi, leur femme de ménage est arrivée au domicile pour sa dernière journée de travail. Plus tard dans la journée, cette dernière a contacté M. Szita pour l’informer de la disparition de Mme Szita.
Erzebeth Szita Service de police de la Ville de Montréal - SPVM
Missing Person Profile
Last Name Szita
First Name Erzebeth
Age (at disappearance) 37
Year of birth 1944
Height 163 cm / 5ft-4in
Weight 60 kg
Hair color Brown
Eye color Brown
Case number 48-190315-006
Last known location
Mme Erzebeth Szita est d’origine hongroise. Elle a été vue pour la dernière fois le 30 octobre 1981 à Montréal. Ce matin-là, Erzebeth était à son domicile pour préparer le lunch de son mari. M. Szita a quitté peu après pour le travail. Ce vendredi, leur femme de ménage est arrivée au domicile pour sa dernière journée de travail. Plus tard dans la journée, cette dernière a contacté M. Szita pour l’informer de la disparition de Mme Szita.
victoriarobinson642
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I don't speak French but Google Translate says:
"Ms. Erzebeth Szita is of Hungarian origin. She was last seen on October 30, 1981, in Montreal. That morning, Erzebeth was at her home to prepare her husband's lunch. Mr. Szita left shortly after for work. That Friday, their cleaning lady arrived at home for her last day of work. Later that day, she contacted Mr. Szita to inform her of Ms. Szita's disappearance."
"Ms. Erzebeth Szita is of Hungarian origin. She was last seen on October 30, 1981, in Montreal. That morning, Erzebeth was at her home to prepare her husband's lunch. Mr. Szita left shortly after for work. That Friday, their cleaning lady arrived at home for her last day of work. Later that day, she contacted Mr. Szita to inform her of Ms. Szita's disappearance."
Bit of hope
Life is a long lesson in humility.
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Cannot find much information about this missing woman who is originally from Hungary.
Erzebeth Szita Service de police de la Ville de Montréal - SPVM
Missing Person Profile
Last Name Szita
First Name Erzebeth
Age (at disappearance) 37
Year of birth 1944
Height 163 cm / 5ft-4in
Weight 60 kg
Hair color Brown
Eye color Brown
Case number 48-190315-006
Last known location
Mme Erzebeth Szita est d’origine hongroise. Elle a été vue pour la dernière fois le 30 octobre 1981 à Montréal. Ce matin-là, Erzebeth était à son domicile pour préparer le lunch de son mari. M. Szita a quitté peu après pour le travail. Ce vendredi, leur femme de ménage est arrivée au domicile pour sa dernière journée de travail. Plus tard dans la journée, cette dernière a contacté M. Szita pour l’informer de la disparition de Mme Szita.
Jee...@Dotr. What a good find! I think you should send this in.
Thanks, sent a message to the NY LE.
Hi there! I am new to the WS community but have been looking around on the internet to see updates on this Jane Doe for a few years now since I am from the region where she was located. Any updates from the LE or any additional info on Erzebeth (alt sp Erzsebet/Erzsebeth)? I can't seem to find much about her disappearance other than an article in a Montreal paper in '82 stating she was a housewife from Nuns' Island. The resemblance is so uncanny I have not seen one so similar after looking through Doe Network. Wonderful find and great overall thread to help put a name and give peace to this woman/her family.
Welcome to Ws eb13!
The only information i can find so far about Erzsebetis, is what has been posted, maybe i should start a thread for her and see if anyone pops up with more info. Thanks!
ETA, started thread..
CANADA - Erzebeth Szita, 37, Montreal, Quebec (Nun's Island) 30 October 1981
Last edited:
Cannot find much information about this missing woman who is originally from Hungary.
Erzebeth Szita Service de police de la Ville de Montréal - SPVM
Missing Person Profile
Last Name Szita
First Name Erzebeth
Age (at disappearance) 37
Year of birth 1944
Height 163 cm / 5ft-4in
Weight 60 kg
Hair color Brown
Eye color Brown
Case number 48-190315-006
Last known location
Mme Erzebeth Szita est d’origine hongroise. Elle a été vue pour la dernière fois le 30 octobre 1981 à Montréal. Ce matin-là, Erzebeth était à son domicile pour préparer le lunch de son mari. M. Szita a quitté peu après pour le travail. Ce vendredi, leur femme de ménage est arrivée au domicile pour sa dernière journée de travail. Plus tard dans la journée, cette dernière a contacté M. Szita pour l’informer de la disparition de Mme Szita.
I wish we had more information about her!!
I have found nothing on Doe Network, nor on ADRTV (which site is reliable, but no longer updated since 2013).
Her topic doesn't mention anything more than the Montréal Police website.
What caught my interest is this part:
This part doesn't appear on the English version: Erzebeth Szita Service de police de la Ville de Montréal - SPVM
The only part that bothers me is her Hungarian origin, as in 1981, Hungary was part of USSR. So, I clearly doubt that she'd gone back and forth between Montréal and Hungary in those days. Furthermore, in those days, clothing was difficult to find there.
Hungary opened its border with Austria only in 1989 per Wikipedia.
From the limited information we have, she seemed to be well established at Montréal. Even if Québec was strongly French speaking, they used American size clothing scale AFAIK.
So, unless she and her husband were known to often travel in Western Europe, I don't think that the MP is a match with our UID.
Jane Doe was wearing only European size clothing, which was not available in Québec.
Being an established housewife at Montréal is against a match because of the clothing size scale. I agree with the uncanny resemblance, but I don't think that it's her.
Another possibility I am exploring: Switzerland.
1) Italian is an official language and you can easily go to Italy from Lugano or Bellinzona
2) Italian clothing size bought in thrift store is a reasonable possibility
3) In those days, women were often housewives and skilled at knitting, sewing....
Why didn't it cross my mind?
Problem: each canton has its own database and Interpol Yellow notices doesn't allow researching by place of disappearance.
Which is pretty annoying!!
Any German speaker willing to comb German-speaking cantons in Switzerland? Thank you
1) Italian is an official language and you can easily go to Italy from Lugano or Bellinzona
2) Italian clothing size bought in thrift store is a reasonable possibility
3) In those days, women were often housewives and skilled at knitting, sewing....
Why didn't it cross my mind?
Problem: each canton has its own database and Interpol Yellow notices doesn't allow researching by place of disappearance.
Which is pretty annoying!!
Any German speaker willing to comb German-speaking cantons in Switzerland? Thank you
Falling Down
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Just one issue I have with your great post...
Hungary actually had the most "free" economy of the Eastern Bloc countries, and despite the travel restrictions many Hungarians did travel abroad to both non-Soviet and communist countries.